Forums are great for learning the vital tool of opening up and sharing honestly our issues. They also show us that we are part of a bigger picture of many many frum intelligent people secretly struggling with these challenges. And as mentioned - eizehu chochom halomed meekal adam - we pick up good solid advice and inspiration from others.

Personally, despite not classifying myself as an addict I have gone another step which for me has been very beneficial. And that is speaking to people that I have met through GYE (Dov is one of them) and even using my real name when doing so. Obviously I have been very careful in choosing people who to the best of my judgement would safeguard my privacy. There is one fellow that I speak to almost every day - and we end up speaking about anything and everything - a real friendship iyh in the making. My reasoning - Why should it be different than opening up honestly face to face with a therapist? The people I speak to have loads of experience in the battleground.  I cannot describe the relief the first time I unloaded for real to another yid that wanted to hear me out and help. Of course to each his own and what worked for me may not necessarily work for someone else. Hatzlocha.

@Dov yes you did respond to the question. I guess the follow up would be1) How does one define an addict vs a regular struggle.
2) I would agree that real friends are better, and most addicts need that, but I'm sure there are some that don't?

3) what's the g file and s file

Yep actually had an experience like that (though still think that I am not an addict)

happened about 3 1/2 years ago I did something stupid and used someone else's card to call a chat line a charge came up blah blah blah we all know how it goes.
Anyways the guy whos card I used came to me to discuss it and my chavrusah was there and helped to calm him down.
We went to call the phone company (just me and my chavrusah) to "figure" out when the call was made .....I ended up telling him everything...
One of the things he told me then was that until the conversation in the B"M he had no clue that I even had a problem (something I told the other guy tipped him off) 
He was surprised at first but then said after thinking about it that really it makes sense as knowing me it is not surprising that I can have 2 tracks in my brain and that is why I was able to be super focused when I wanted to be even though I was calling for hours every night and masturbating a couple of times a day at that point (I was so scared to go to the bathroom that's how bad I was)

Simple and obvious. You had to be extra good in seder. You needed to do somethings that were really truly good in order to counterbalance the horrible choices you were making before, during, and after acting out your lust. Most of us frum masturbaters do that when acting out is a part of our lives.

If we didn't balance it, we'd have an ever harder time acting out. The self-loathing would overcome us.

So in our acting out times, our frumkeit actually enables our acting out and makes us worse. Which is so ironic, for at the time, we were under the impression that our frumkeit was some degree of tikkun for the sins....quite the opposite was true, and Hashem knew this all along (cuz He's not stupid).

We are a hot mess in addiction.

strugglingguy wrote on 22 Feb 2017 18:27:

Look, strugglingguy...You are a fine person, I am sure, but I know you for years since you came on the site (and maybe even before that) and we have PM'd a number of times over the years so I have the right to an opinion. Besides, being a New-Yorker I arrogantly believe I have the right to an opinion (and can immediately honk my car horn at every light that turns green and scream obscenities in Italian, as well). And now to the serious part...

You make light of whining in your post. But I think that whining has a positive aspect to it. I realize that whining isn't solution-oriented...but at least it does indicate that something is bothering the person doing the whining. So I say that deserves some (little) respect.

So we can see that you are not entirely happy with using porn and having sex with yourself for the past two days. 

But besides the fact that you are whining about it and not entirely happy with your choices, what evidence do you have that you are actually trying to learn how to live without it?

I bet none at all. Tell me that my sincere assumption is wrong, please. Please!

You have been posting here for years. Maybe you have had some real improvement - I do not know, but will believe you if you say you have. And if you have then great! But if you are doing worse or are still essentially the same as a year or two ago, then I wondered why you imply in your post that you are 'having a hard time with staying clean' and even whining about it (which I admit does mean something)?

But then I reread your post.

You wrote, "it's hard post-birth in terms of tashmish." And you explained that the wait for sex is unfortunately a lot longer than the 8-day d'oraiso wait, nowadays. You are saying exactly the truth. What is hard for you is not staying clean. What is hard for you is getting enough tashmish. Getting enough sex is what you see as your problem, your struggle. I will now bet that at your core, you believe getting sexual satisfaction is absolutely essential. And I'd bet that you also believe as a dovor poshut that your aspirations of staying clean can only have a chance of success provided that you are getting enough sex to offset your hunger. 

But chaza"l say something funny, and the experience of perverts like myself actually bears this one out in practice: "Eiver koton yeish b'odom: mar'ivo - sovoh...masbi'o - ro'eiv." Less indulgence allows your penis to rest and relax - life is ok without constant sex after all, and it gets even easier to live without it then. And the opposite is true, too: The more I try to 'finally get what I want' or 'get enough', the less satisfied I will feel and the more I will come up with new 'needs'. And this phenomenon of increased hunger with indulgence is not even referring to sex maniacs, but to normals! Kal v'chomer is this true with lust addicts or the porn-perverted (you and the rest of us GYE guys).

What do you say to that, old pal?

Oh, and mazel Tov. Please consider this post from me our belated baby present!   

Aryeh, is your therapist trained in abuse and in addictions? What methods does he use with you?

Singularity wrote on 23 Feb 2017 07:28:


Yeah, the selfishness is astounding. Like a selfish monster took over everything normal we know.

In active addiction I would plug away during 2nd seder. Not a word of batalah. How could I do such a thing?!

Workingguy wrote on 22 Feb 2017 22:56:

Sorry to hear, from both of you

I like to give it a good amount of time before I act out again, haha. Enough time for that euphoria of gratefulness to subside.

Perhaps there's a higher level of honesty what you guys did. I'm not faking dveikus, screw that. I am an addict and I'm gonna act out erev 8th day!!!

I'm not saying do so. But for me I was kidding myself. Worst words of an addict:
"Oh, BH! We had a baby boy! What a reason not to masturbate!"

That's the first thing I think of? How selfish :-)

Markz wrote on 29 Jan 2017 04:28:

GrowStrong wrote on 30 Jan 2017 11:40:


Rarely did I see ANYONE who's reason for stopping was because of the religious/aveira aspect be successful.

A rageholic can learn enough mussar and come to recognize that his life is unmanageable.
Learning about the chet of HZ"L and kedushas Hayesod is seldom sufficient to bring a person to such clarity.

As was famously said: If the Reishis Chochma would be readily available in the streets and the taavos were on the shelf in shul it would've been much easier;
The problem is that the Reishis Chochma is in Shul and we are confronted by taavos all day in the street......

silentbattle wrote on 23 Feb 2017 01:37:

great to hear.

OnwardI in my notes.

Singularity wrote on 21 Feb 2017 07:44:

Thank you - and all that makes sense. But even without understanding, I'm trying to follow the advice of more experienced, wiser people. Another thing I'm hearing from people is the phrase, "my best thinking got me here." I may be smart, but I have the capacity to do very, VERY stupid things. I cannot rely on my ability to make good choices. 

Cordnoy: I actually am not sure which friend I'm referring to in that post. However, I actually did stay in touch with my rebbe, and still stay in touch with him. He's a great guide, and he knows me better than I know myself. He advised that I speak to a therapist who specialized in addiction and let him make the decision of how much of an addict I was - i.e., do I need to go to meetings. And...yep, I'm going to meetings.

strugglingguy wrote on 22 Feb 2017 18:27:


I have to imagine that even back then she wasn't necessarily in shape to jump back into bed seven days in.

I remember my struggles shortly after the birth of one of my kids – boy did that feel miserable. Acting out so shortly after the birth when I had so much to be thankful for really made me feel like a sick addict.

Is understanding the halachic severity of the sin going to help us?
Dov wrote on 04 Feb 2010 23:39:

Heh, nothing at all wrong with trying to be more in control. But you said it and I will quote you:

"If someone CAN be in control, then why shouldn't he?"

I am a powerless but sober sex and lust addict who works the 12 steps in SA, bH. But I still want to vomit whenever i see people here on GYE of all places trying to convince every guy who masturbates that he must be an addict and needs to surrender to win (as we addicts do and it works for us).

No, I do not think that this was what GS meant that you should surrender the way we addicts do. He didn't write that. What he wrote was "MAYBE the point is that you shouldn't try to control..." All he did was suggest an option. I think that's quite thoughtful and innocent.

So You are both right, in my opinion, for whatever it's worth. Instead of looking for disagreements wherever they may be, it might bear more fruit for us to see the truth in nearly everything someone writes, under specific circumstances.

Practically for this suffering guy, I'd suggest considering what GS said because he obviously has a poor track record. Some of us have a slightly poor track record, and some have a horrifyingly poor track record, and then some have dismal ones...and some worse.

If he has failed consistently for a long time and really plays with himself frequently and has tried battering it with self-will and religiosity for a long time and that has not worked...then I feel pretty sure that defending his right to be a moron and keep trying to control it, is cruelty and actually assur al pi halocha because of ona'ah - hurting a fellow Jew, a bitul of a few mitzvos asei and certainly an issur d'oraiso of lifnei iver.

But I am not saying you are doing that. For the truth that all this pivots on, is not yours but only his to know.

That OK?.