Yosef Tikun HaYesod wrote on 09 Mar 2017 21:59:

It's a nice theory and may even work by some people, and even you. Continued hatzlachah with that.

II don't get involved in the addict/non addicts discussions.

From your experience last week, it doesn't seem that the "pas besalo waitin' routine" was in top form. But could be that was an exception.

Keep workin'.

"What would have to be different in your life in order for you to consider yourself an addict? 
In other words, what is it about being an addict that makes you feel you are not one of them/us?" 
First thing that comes to mind is: wow, I really enjoy talking to someone smart. It's a deep Q.
Second thing that comes to mind is: that I can't answer the 2nd sentence for the very reason I wrote.
Third thing that comes to mind is: if I can answer the 1st sentence? 
Fourth thing is: that yes, I must be able to answer it.
Fifth thing is: what IS the answer?
-------------
O.k. if chas v'shalom, things had been getting progressively worse. 
If I felt I was no longer in control of my actions. If I felt compelled to act out.
If I felt a certain tolerance to it, so the high was no longer a real high
as this short animation video describes: 
gye.vids.io/videos/d49bdfba1a11e4c45c/05-addiction-animation
Or if I felt like I couldn't live without it or overcome it...
I was somehow powerless and doomed to fail...
THEN I would strongly consider the possibility that I have an addiction 
that needs its own special treatment.

In the absence of all this, I feel it is far more likely that I have a very bad habit, 
that I can and will break free from and overcome.
It will still be very difficult and take major siata d'shamaya.

Perhaps the difference between a guy with 2 broken legs, running a 10k race the whole way,
in under 50 minutes, and a 75-pounds-overweight guy who can't run for even 2 minutes,
being able to run the same 10k race in under 50 minutes.
In a year's time, they both can do it and succeed. But the 1st guy needs special treatment
in a hospital, while the 2nd guy could theoretically do it on his own without special treatment.
That's not to say that he will put in the time and effort, learn new skills, and succeed. He probably won't.
But the 2nd guy has no chance without the special help that doctors in the hospital can provide.

what would have fo be different in ylur life in order for you to consider yoirself an addict? 
in other words, what is it about being an addict that makes you feel you are not one of them/us? 

this is a small discussion

Yosef Tikun HaYesod wrote on 09 Mar 2017 21:59:

how do you know you are not addicted?

I agree, that was an epic post by gibbor.
I happened to REALLY like the series The Fight.
I even distributed many of the cds around several different Shuls. Anyway...

Marriage definitely helps. I can only speak about my experience 
as someone who struggles and has struggled in this area for years.
If a big tyvah came when I was single, I thought no outlet, no end in sight. I must release.
If a big tyvah came when I was married, I thought she will be muteres soon. I can wait.
This is the pas b'salo principle that is TOTALLY true. 
It is way easier to fast today, knowing that tonight you will have a big meal.
If you were a pauper with no money and no food, the fast would be a lot harder.
------------
If there is a shalom bayis fight and you expected to be together, that is a very BIG nisayon
to act out, as Gibbor said. Try your best not to get into fights, and admit you were wrong, if
a fight occurs. This is true no matter what, even though probably half the time, she was wrong (too).
Never expect that she will apologize to you...for anything...ever. If it happens, great.
But never expect it.
----------
A good or great marriage uplifts you emotionally and makes acting out very unlikely.
Again, Gibbor is right. Emotional stability is key, and rough patches in marriage or even a 
bad marriage, chas v'shalom, will make it VERY likely that the guy will act out.
----------
A good or great marriage takes time and effort. It doesn't just happen.
You have to be proactive creating the environment for love to grow and blossom.
If you do that, she will reciprocate, and you can break free and win the fight.
------------
NO idea how it works for an addicted guy. Just like NO addicted guy knows how it works for me.

That's some serious running!

I think (for what it's worth) that you're spot on about perfection feeding addictions. If a person is content he wouldn't look for something to alter his mind-state. He feels good as is.

Sometimes we say we're going to do something positive like volunteering or learn something extra to change our mind-state, sometimes it will be a fix. 

Nothing can tempt a man who's content. 

(These ideas are discussed in the book I wrote about on my thread) 

gibbor120 wrote on 09 Mar 2017 20:23:

cordnoy wrote on 09 Mar 2017 20:44:

gibbor120 wrote on 09 Mar 2017 20:23:

Please get this in the award postin' section.

When Gibbor writes several paragraphs, it's really a doozie.

Thank you

TzedekChaim wrote on 05 Mar 2017 18:15:

Disclaimer: I didn't like "'the fight' shiurim by rabbi shafier".

That said, I think marriage can help and hurt. I think one of the misconceptions is that acting out is about taivah and hormones. Therefore, if a person has an outlet, he will not have a problem.

That may be true to a certain degree, but certainly for someone who is addicted, it can make things worse. He can view his wife as an object to satisfy his desires. (This is a sliding scale by the way, and I think we all do it to one degree or another.) He can then pressure her etc. She is turned off and it can make intimacy a source of tension instead of ... well intimacy .

Addiction is about escape. I know for myself, and I think many others here will agree, the biggest trigger I have is being in a fight with my wife. (That trigger doesn't exist for singles ). The fact that addiction has much more to do with emotional state etc. means that marraige can be good or bad. A good marriage can uplift a person etc.. A bad marriage can be toxic.

Even in a good marriage, there are bumps along the way. Getting married is stressful. As much as you think you love your kallah, and nothing will ever go wrong... the reality is much different.

I wouldn't stress aobut it too much. Just realize, that your emotional state is probably more important than your physical satisfaction.

Just do your best to be a good husband. To appreciate your wife as a person, and not pressure her to satisfy you. (That is not so say that she should not satisfy you, just that you should not be obsessed with her satisfying you in specific ways.) It is a learning process for both of you. Be open and honest and IY"H things will be good.

Please keep us posted.

Thank you for sharing.  Check out the Dr Sorotzkin link in my signature.  I think you may find his writings and recordings illuminating.  It sounds like you used Torah as your escape, and it worked for a time.  Addiction is about escape.  I wish you all the best.  Keep posting. 

Thank you everyone for your warm and encouraging support. Thank you GYE for being here. My story in a nutshell is a little crazy. I will be glad to share it hopefully it will be beneficial.

Basically it began when I was a budding teenager and began getting normal human urges. The problem was that in my home I was exposed to too much reading material (ie. magazines, circulars, and clothing catalogs) that quickly drew my fascination. It didn’t take long before I couldn’t go a day without secretly perusing these items and usually culminating in the known sin.

I tried countless times to break free unsuccessfully. I tried taking cold showers when I stumbled, and reading the parsha of onan in the torah, but I always ended up back at square one.

Finally, I saw light at the end of the tunnel. (By the way, this was before GYE times and my “addiction” was not really technology based) My parents were going to send me to a summer sleepaway camp where I would be free from exposure to tumah sources.

That summer I was tremendously inspired. There was literally no fight to give up tumah. There just wasn’t any around.

Now this is where my radical life change came, but it was based on the spur of a moment and accompanied with consequences in other life areas I will soon explain.

I decided I wanted to stay pure. I wanted to live a life of kedusha and close to H-shem. I didn’t ask a Rebbe or anything I acted purely on impulse. Besides, I have not shared my addiction with anyone until now. (I lived a double life). From that moment on I was determined to fully devote myself to learning Torah. I was a bochur and became a masmid staying in the bais medrash and learning countless hours.

This has been my main technique the past 14 years (up until about a year and a half ago). This all sounds awesome. Where is the catch?

The problem is that I went too far. I became so withdrawn over the past years that I developed severe social anxiety. I also destroyed my self-esteem and had zero self-confidence.

Now we are getting closer to the present. My wife wanted me to start earning a parnassah, but I felt I could do nothing beyond my comfort zone of learning in the bais medrash. The moment I stepped out I would be nervous and tense and feel totally vulnerable.

The past year I have been putting in extraordinary effort to socialize, build my self-esteem and self-confidence. But somehow as I return to being normal in a social way I feel that my old passion for tumah has gripped me once again. That’s basically my story in a nutshell. You probably have many kashyas on this maasah, but I was trying to be concise.

Anyways, I’m now on GYE and I’m fighting the battle to stay afloat.

I have thoughts. I thought I was the only one who used to watch Naruto. I'd be watching in middle of the night waiting for my baby to go back to sleep and often watched it and disnt watch por. But I think I was a Naruto addict. Watched about 150 episodes I think

Charata is part of teshuva guilt needs to be used to get to the steps of teshuva described by Rabbienu Yonah but with caution especially for addicts and even those who just struggle more than the average person.

Before my last fall was watching naruto one of the shows featured a guy casting a spell but got caught himself in the spell because of his own emotions. He broke out of it when he saw a friend who acts with alot of emotion but does not project it to others. He then realized that one can feel emotions but not be overwhelmed by them hence allowing himself to use them effectively for the spell....

I think there is what to gain by this perspective in the above discussion use guilt as a springboard but don't get bogged down with them

Any thoughts on this guys

Hi. I'm newly married happy and all. at least that's what people think about me. But inside I know its not like that. for a couple of years iv been struggling with this addiction I tried many times to stop but always fell back. although I never let my falls win me I always fought back only yo fall again. but now that I'm married I know its not enough.  I must win for good break free and become back the real me. I sure with the help of gye and all of you who are in this with me I will break free. thanks