17 Mar 2017 10:00
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Markz
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Welcome back blessed brother
This is worth reposting - don't you think?
Asopher wrote on 20 Dec 2013 02:24:
Dear fellow GYE forum members,
I hesitate to call you fellow members, because this is all so new to me, so strange, a bit overwhelming, and I feel boy-like shyness returning, though I am far from being a boy.
My porn addiction goes back for more than four decades. With the internet, it has reached close to a daily basis. In the last few years I have made great efforts to stop. Using a meditative technique, I succeeded for almost two months, and wow, did I think I was fabulous. I was celebrating, I was crying with joy and thanks. I felt lighter, I felt renewed. And then I dropped. And my drop seemed to push me even lower, due to the height I had reached. And since then, though still trying, I never reached abstinence for more than a few days at a time.
But on Sunday Dec. 7, I felt particularly low, because the night before, Motzai Shabbat, when the home was quiet, I fell again, and for a long time, so that it cut into my sleeping time. And I felt particularly hateful of myself, because I thought, wow, I don't break Shabbat to watch the computer(Thank God; I am sure that for some this too can be a struggle), but I could not last the small section of day that was left before sleeping. And I stayed up so late that it cut into the next day, and I awoke not only groggy(with sort of a post-porn hangover) but just disgusted with myself.
My wife sensed it, asked what was going on, if I was alright. I told her I was just in a bad mood(like duh). I wonder now, as an aside, how many bad moods, depressions, cynical answers, impatient snappings, I have imposed upon my family because of my struggle and the accompanying sense of self-hatred.
Later that day, going through e-mails, I found and opened the daily GYE chizuk, which I had signed up for a short time earlier, but not read daily. I pushed myself to open this one immediately, and saw an announcement for a yearly gathering here in Yerushalayim, the very next evening. I knew I had to sign up.
But when I arrived, I wanted to turn around and leave. I felt myself hunch up and try to shrink, as I have done so many times through the years, slipping in and out of stinking theatres with scratchy movies, and peep-show booths by bus stations and slimy waterfront bars. And these men, fellow Jews, some young, some older, talking and joking, laughing and hugging, did not seem to be carrying the load I was carrying. It couldn't be. This must be some kind of interest group or mild support group.
I was wrong, of course, and subsequent testimony from some men knocked me out, stunned me, by their blending of confession, of struggle, of feelings of ignominy surpassing my own, along with tremendous exposure and courage. I was riveted, I was moved, I was close to tears at being in a room where so many men could say openly, without hunching or turning away, that they did THIS, struggled with THIS, neglected a child or their work because of THIS. When, one by one, men around the room stood and admitted their addiction, and how long they were clean, I could barely move when my turn came, and had to push myself up, because only at that point did I really accept the realization that this was my place, the place I needed to be. And, far from hunching and slouching and slinking away, I could stand tall and proud and straight-shouldered and open, at least in the knowledge that I had taken the step to be here, like these others and with these others.
Oh yes, I could return to my pit, but not without knowing that there was an alternative, not without purposely and consciously rejecting the life lines that were cast toward me. I knew I had to immediately, this very evening, push forward and take action, to keep the momentum going.
Finding a group, connecting to phone calls, starting the Big Book, reading through the archive of GYE articles and e-mails, has been a bit of a balancing act, in the midst of Jerusalem's record snowfall. If anyone had told me on the Sunday morning that I awaoke disusted with myself(again), that I would remain sober for the next twelve days, I could not have believed it. Yet here I am, hopefully shedding, neuron by neuron, this obsession that has gripped my brain since a painful adolescence.
I feel that all these efforts are half-blind gropings. I don't know yet which are more effective and which less. I do not want to judge them. But the fact is that I am sober, one day after another, slowly re-building my foundation of myself. I have a long, long way to go, I know. I have fear of falling again, and that the fall might convince me of the futility of even trying. I am much more cautious now than during my earlier short-lived period of breaking free.
Writing this is one more way of reaching out, of taking action to try to pull myself forward and out. I am amazed to find myself writing this to all of you. I am amazed to know that you are out there, and that you all are wrestling with your own private pain. I feel that I am clumsily casting out a single strand into darkness, hoping that this is the start of a strong web of support and connection, but not quite believing it at a gut level.
Two points I would like to make before closing this first effort of reaching. First, I was really struck when Dov, speaking to our gathering by Skype, spoke of staying sober one day at a time. Of course, I have heard this thinking before but it really hit home, just to focus on staying free and shedding this pattern for this day. Only this day exists. Many many thanks to Dove for saying this in a way that really penetrated.
But this leads to my second point. While I have heard many people say that in the problem there are blessings, in the past this has sounded like hopeful gibberish to me. But if I concentrate on this single day of not acting out, of making solid, good, conscious choices, then I expand the possibility of finding the beauty and miracle inherent in each day. I want to tell myself today not only that this will be a day of NOT doing something, but of YES doing something else. I am not only refraining form acting out, not only cleaning out the gunk, but also recognizing beauty, joyfully and gratefully accepting blessings, and celebrating my choices of re-directing energy, of re-channeling obsession into productivity and creativity. And that, for me, right now, is the brachah inherent in this daily struggle and unfolding.
Many thanks for listening, and many thanks for being out there, Asopher
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16 Mar 2017 15:11
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eslaasos
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stillgoing wrote on 19 Jan 2017 15:58:
cordnoy wrote on 19 Jan 2017 15:50:
stillgoing wrote on 19 Jan 2017 15:16:
"eslaasos" post=303500 date=1484754098 catid=1
I can and have answered yes many times, and I have no freaking idea if I was being honest. That's just one more little side-effect of years of begin wrapped up in yourself.
Thanks to Cordnoy, I stopped worrying about it because worrying about it gets me nowhere. Dov would likely say that worrying about it is just another self-obsession driven by arrogance (and if he wouldn't say it, I'll say it instead).
The only note I would add is that addicts (even the fake ones) are often very black and white. I would like to believe that this not as simple. Even belief is a matter of degree. I could be wrong, but as I said I am not going to invest a lot of time wondering about it. The book does seem to imply it's as simple as yes or no - nu nu, kasha, not tyuvta. Maybe a basic willingness to accept it might be true is all they're looking for, to weed out the atheists (v'chol hakorei bishmom). Jews are b'teva maaminim, deep underneath all the accumulated junk.
I agree that overly obsessively obsessing wether or not one really really believes that there is a higher power above us or not is probably not that helpful, but I do think that sometimes we live our lives with the assumptions that we are strong in a certain belief and when we suddenly get tested we fail, and we can't understand how it happened. What we didn't realize was that we were weak to begin with, and had we know that, we could have worked on strengthening ourselves and taking precautions ahead of time.
So says the chovos halevavos I believe.
He says likes whom? (I'm not writing the two options, so you can't just reply 'the latter'.)
Why was I not subscribed to this thread?
I didn't realize there was a disagreement here. I was just elaborating on my vagueness.
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16 Mar 2017 11:59
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MayanHamisgaber
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You can also look at it that recovery is working/helping
But maybe for an addict that is a bad mindset
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16 Mar 2017 10:13
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Singularity
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Why be agitated? You're a hero!
Though I understand. I also cannot stand being successful. My addict won't allow it.
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16 Mar 2017 08:37
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Singularity
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They chopped our boys in the desert. So some died. We still exist.
The Nazis, now, yemach sh'mam. Remember that evil, that horror. But maybe in hundreds of years people will have it dulled down through the passage of time as well.
I saw my neighbour had some toy/game based on the disaster of the Titanic. I wondered if in a hundred years time there will be a board game / toy entitled "9/11".
And now (to those who are unsure of my linkage here), what if my brain dulls down the scourge and horror of my addiction so in ten years I don't even remember why it was so bad in the first place?
It's scary, what time can do.
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15 Mar 2017 15:41
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GrowStrong
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Recovery is about working on yourself and about giving that back to those around you. (after taking for so long) To your non addict family that means just giving everything you have. To the addicts around you that means giving them a piece of your sobriety.
Being selfish and being a taker are both intimately connected.
I don't think an addict can come close to sobriety without acknowledging their core selfishness in all their addicted actions and taking action to becoming a giver..
That doesn't mean you can conclude that they were a bad person.
I think its a different type of selfishness compared to the kid who wont share his candy. And that doesn't make the kid bad either it makes them selfish.
Do people still talk to bigMoish?
I vote that both P and M are incredibly selfish, both in action and in thought.
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15 Mar 2017 14:18
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cordnoy
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RaabosMachshovos wrote on 15 Mar 2017 13:53:
cordnoy wrote on 15 Mar 2017 13:43:
If we acknowledge that we are selfish, we can work on it.
but is that the issue?
We dont do it because we are selfish... we do it and therefore we are selfish...
the issues we struggle with nogaya to porn and mz"l are not rooted in being selfish it is first and foremost a strong tayva Hashem in his infinite wisdom bestowed upon us and ,for some, a serious addiction (to some a very real clinical condition)
is there no fear of harm by attaching labels which may further depress someone who recognizes already his shortcomings in this parsha??
And by the way, what do you think tayva is?
And by the way, why is "actin' upon our desire" not a label, but "doin' somethin' because we are selfish" yes a label?
And by the way, why would bein' selfish cause depression, but recognizin' shortcomin's not?
I do apologize for my questions.
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15 Mar 2017 13:59
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cordnoy
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RaabosMachshovos wrote on 15 Mar 2017 13:53:
cordnoy wrote on 15 Mar 2017 13:43:
If we acknowledge that we are selfish, we can work on it.
but is that the issue?
We dont do it because we are selfish... we do it and therefore we are selfish...
the issues we struggle with nogaya to porn and mz"l are not rooted in being selfish it is first and foremost a strong tayva Hashem in his infinite wisdom bestowed upon us and ,for some, a serious addiction (to some a very real clinical condition)
is there no fear of harm by attaching labels which may further depress someone who recognizes already his shortcomings in this parsha??
I thought I recognized that in your first post.
I believe you are mistaken.
We do it because we are selfish.
And that is key to fixin' it.
B'hatzlachah
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15 Mar 2017 13:53
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RaabosMachshovos
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cordnoy wrote on 15 Mar 2017 13:43:
If we acknowledge that we are selfish, we can work on it.
but is that the issue?
We dont do it because we are selfish... we do it and therefore we are selfish...
the issues we struggle with nogaya to porn and mz"l are not rooted in being selfish it is first and foremost a strong tayva Hashem in his infinite wisdom bestowed upon us and ,for some, a serious addiction (to some a very real clinical condition)
is there no fear of harm by attaching labels which may further depress someone who recognizes already his shortcomings in this parsha??
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15 Mar 2017 07:47
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Singularity
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tiger wrote on 15 Mar 2017 02:52:
What's up with tiger!!
Its day 48! Learning is minimal davening is svach and I know that it's because my cheshek has been burnt to the ground with some terrible stuff!! But who cares about the old days I feel reborn like a baby in pampers learning to walk for the first time! I am thirsty to anybody who God sends to help me (and he sends his messengers all the time)be it yiddish, chassidish, litvhus, sefardush, goyish,I am always listening out for God!
Last week I had an acquaintance open up to me(don't know why) that he is struggling with addiction, who knows God's ways!
Help one another! What an opportunity!
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15 Mar 2017 02:52
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tiger
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What's up with tiger!!
Its day 48! Learning is minimal davening is svach and I know that it's because my cheshek has been burnt to the ground with some terrible stuff!! But who cares about the old days I feel reborn like a baby in pampers learning to walk for the first time! I am thirsty to anybody who God sends to help me (and he sends his messengers all the time)be it yiddish, chassidish, litvhus, sefardush, goyish,I am always listening out for God!
Last week I had an acquaintance open up to me(don't know why) that he is struggling with addiction, who knows God's ways!
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14 Mar 2017 20:56
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anotherbaaltshuva
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Ihavenostrength wrote on 14 Mar 2017 19:17:
Day 32: Why do I think excessively to the point of driving myself insane? Why do I give so much credence to my thoughts? Why is each thought "front page news," each thought requiring analyzation and a corresponding response? Each thought seen as reflective of something intrinsically true.
Mostly because I've taught myself this dysfunctional method of thinking.
It goes hand in hand with believing the right circumstances will make you happy.
It's so tempting to buy into the theory that happiness and well-being is on the shelf in your local store. It's tempting because it seems an easy route to take. It absolves us responsibility for our mental state. It lets us be righteously miserable.
The ideology that the next best thing will make you happy is hard to resist. In part because this message is being enforced constantly in today's society. Especially if you expose yourself to secular culture. It's insidious. You may not even realize that your thinking has shifted. When you're miserable you'll be reminded though.
Have you ever seen a child? They're mostly happy. When something is wrong they're sad but get over it quickly. They have healthy psychological functioning. They don't self-sabotage themselves on a constant basis.
Addiction may not be a problem with action, but with thinking.
My most dangerous thought is "I'd be happy/happier if _____."
Not thinking the thought itself, but mistaking it as reflective of reality, not something I generated.
Why is so hard for people to change? I don't think it's hard to change a point of view. It's hard to take on a point of view that forces you to change.
Thank you, seeing this analysis when I need it the most is hashgacha pratit mamash.
For me the biggest trigger for relapsing is the stress and unhappiness.
How can we be happy in the moment while being deprived of many joys if the life by current circumstances? I've lost health, family, my finances are ruined, and at the moment there are very few things in my life I can thank Hashem for. This is exactly what is called בור תחתיה in Tehillim.
I figured it's hard for me to לבטוח in Hashem strongly enough to rely on him to fix my happiness and to correct my situation, so my יצר הרע tricks me every time to enjoy the moment, because the future is so vague.
If I only KNEW (not "hoped", but really knew) He is going to help me and things are going to be better. If I only could to rely on Him strongly enough.
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14 Mar 2017 19:17
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Ihavenostrength
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Day 32: Why do I think excessively to the point of driving myself insane? Why do I give so much credence to my thoughts? Why is each thought "front page news," each thought requiring analyzation and a corresponding response? Each thought seen as reflective of something intrinsically true.
Mostly because I've taught myself this dysfunctional method of thinking.
It goes hand in hand with believing the right circumstances will make you happy.
It's so tempting to buy into the theory that happiness and well-being is on the shelf in your local store. It's tempting because it seems an easy route to take. It absolves us responsibility for our mental state. It lets us be righteously miserable.
The ideology that the next best thing will make you happy is hard to resist. In part because this message is being enforced constantly in today's society. Especially if you expose yourself to secular culture. It's insidious. You may not even realize that your thinking has shifted. When you're miserable you'll be reminded though.
Have you ever seen a child? They're mostly happy. When something is wrong they're sad but get over it quickly. They have healthy psychological functioning. They don't engage in self-sabotage on a constant basis.
Addiction may not be a problem with action, but with thinking.
My most dangerous thought is "I'd be happy/happier if _____."
Not thinking the thought itself, but mistaking it as reflective of reality, not something I generated.
Why is so hard for people to change? I don't think it's hard to change a point of view. It's hard to take on a point of view that forces you to change.
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14 Mar 2017 17:04
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cordnoy
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GrowStrong wrote on 14 Mar 2017 16:56:
I defer on this issue to Watson's Semantics response.
For me a real recovery is a teshuva.
In my opinion a real recovery which focuses on giving and ceasing to be a taker and being a selfish focuser on self is a teshuva.
Yes in recovery you have to give to yourself other things, like time to heal and time to analyze the reasons why you acted out (the emotional causes - in therapy/group therapy) but recovery programs focus on something called service, which starts with the family, and then other addicts, and the community etc.
Maybe when we stop acting out we then get less impulses to "make teshuva" but i think thats really just a symptom of stopping to do 'aveyras'.
But dont think being in recovery is not being in teshuva.
(in my opinion)
The above discussion was not about teshuvah; it was about learnin' Torah.
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14 Mar 2017 16:56
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GrowStrong
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I defer on this issue to Watson's Semantics response.
For me a real recovery is a teshuva.
In my opinion a real recovery which focuses on giving and ceasing to be a taker and being a selfish focuser on self is a teshuva.
Yes in recovery you have to give to yourself other things, like time to heal and time to analyze the reasons why you acted out (the emotional causes - in therapy/group therapy) but recovery programs focus on something called service, which starts with the family, and then other addicts, and the community etc.
Maybe when we stop acting out we then get less impulses to "make teshuva" but i think thats really just a symptom of stopping to do 'aveyras'.
But dont think being in recovery is not being in teshuva.
(in my opinion)
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