Mesayin wrote on 17 May 2017 20:45:

I like the stimulus threshold idea. Any specific advice on how to lower it? Will it get lowered over time by not spending so much time online etc. (marivo=masbio)?

Kleen4real wrote on 18 May 2017 22:53:

I'm addicted to you baby.

tzg wrote on 18 May 2017 20:55:

I'm unclear. If you don't have faith that there exists a god then how can you be distant from him?

If you want some clarity on faith I can give you some shiurim, if you think that you are distant from god I can also give you shiurim that shows that you are not. Perhaps you are just distant from yourself.

As far as the addiction goes, keep on posting about it and use GYE for it.

FAITH = Forward All Issues To Hashem

hi all, 
Im new on the site and wanted to introduce myself. I am in upper 20's, once extremely learned, and am married w/ children. I struggle (addicted to) w/ prngphy and mstrbation and also I also have a (related) addiction to taking things that do not belong to me =stealing. Not sure if ive hit rock bottom yet but definitely close to/on my way to doing so. i dont even fight back anymore and have more or less accepted this as who I am. these challlenges were once a painful struggle; at this point i am numb.
I have unfortunately lost my relationship w/ and faith in the creator of the world;  I have also distanced myself from those I care about and from myself. 
I am hoping that I can somehow find my way back. 

tzg

gyejew wrote on 20 Apr 2017 18:05:



[strike-]I swear[/strike] the "Non Addict" website will be promoting Taphsic for breakfast lunch & supper


In other news;

Yesterday Chizuk email wrote:


Does this email make sense to you????


The implication is that he passed a
Milestone in his recovery and is cured
Taphsic works - yeah!

Would anyone write "SA WORKS" after 30 days? Yeah it's highly beneficial, but misleading imho, if it's not tried and tested by the general population

Gye has stats. I'd love to see them

1a) How low would the non addict fall, and how frequent?
1b) What tools worked for him long term?
2) How many have long term Taphsic?

yiraishamaim wrote on 18 May 2017 14:50:

According to much of the prevalent opinion today (not one that I necessarily subscribe to) anxiety and depression have a strong genetic component and more likely will cause low self esteem than be the result of low self esteem. 

I struggled with anxiety for a good chunk of this year-baruch HaShem it's not an issue as of now- and the guy who I saw who was tremendously helpful in like three short sessions told me that there is a strong genetic component, and most people who struggle with anxiety have an immediate family member who does as well.

But even in my own experience there is definitely some truth to what you're saying. 

Shlomo24 wrote on 18 May 2017 14:32:

For the record, I disagree.

DovDov (both of them) knows much more about addiction and recovery than I will ever know.

I know much more about the forum.

I reserve judgment on whatever they decide to do until they actually do it.

yiraishamaim wrote on 18 May 2017 14:50:

Great stuff!

II asked Dr Lieberman directly this about somethin' he said and he said that it is a generality and there can be exceptions. He gave me one. I provided another, and he agreed.

Sound arguments were set forth that those with a high self esteem can be selfish and even cause acting out.

Still... 
Are Rabbi Twerski and Dr. Lieberman really saying their point on self-esteem works with  "every" person and in "every" situation. These accomplished men should not be reduced to simplistic generalizations. -

"I know that Rabbi Twerski and Dr Lieberman say that. The distinction I'm making is as follows- perhaps without it you will have a hard time being selfless, but just because a person has self esteem doesn't mean they will be selfless. By their explanation, every rasha and evil person in the world were just lacking self esteem".


There are always exceptions to rules. However, exceptions are just that and don't create rules.

Meaning, that they say within any  given group; be it Jewish observant or gentile religious or secular people - those that have a good self esteem will tend to be more generous then those that have a low self esteem. by a large margin but my no means is this rule ALWAYS true.

Next -doesn't anxiety and depression play a large role in many cases of addiction? Although it can be said that anxiety and depression can certainly happen to people with a good self esteem, is it not obvious that these would be more much prevalent with those of low self-esteem.

I emailed Guard about this topic. He CC'd it to Dov. I emailed Dov back and forth about the pro's and con's of splitting the tools of the website. He also explained to me a lot of the thought process involved. Eventually I came to a point where I agreed with him about the split. Too long for me to explain, but bottom line is that people need to know what works and what doesn't. The label "addict" may be misleading, but it's the best distinction that can be made. The current system, with all it's levels, is very confusing and it enables people to avoid serious recovery. The new system should be much clearer and user-friendly.

Mesayin wrote on 17 May 2017 14:01:

Yes. Me. I didn't always have a high self-esteem.

Shalom Aleichem. I wish you that you find what you need here, there is plenty.

As far as finding a way to distress, something that you enjoy. I struggle with that too.

There are a few factors I think:

Perhaps the acting out and watching youtube is more than just a destresser, maybe there is different reason you are not aware of that pulls you there even to just watch sports. And therefore, anything wlse you try for a distresser would be futile.

Or maybe it is not regular stress, maybe it is to high stress and therefore you need a stronger destresser than say just reading a book.

Maybe it's an addiction.

Or maybe since your stimulus threshold is so high, meaning the stimuli you get from what you are doing is so high that any stimuli lower than that doesn't even stimulate you.

This will be something you will need to find out on your own. 

Markz wrote on 17 May 2017 15:21:

Oh, I forgot about that.

In other words, this site is already split and this discussion is if it should get split more, correct?

Amen Hashem-Help-Me. After reading the following you may not think I'm such an inspiration but at least I can say that this post was written with honesty.

yesterday was 253.

Yesterday was a wild ride. It started off normally. Had some struggles. The ER (erection) thing has been bothering me a lot. So I looked into getting underwear that might make it less embarrassing in public.

The main point is that I am an addict and I am usually aware of when my ERs are being caused by thoughts and lusting or when they are just spontaneous. As I wrote before, I think that being in deep recovery and in a good mindset causes me to have very few ERs. So the REAL goal is to work on that and not try to find a magic cure to ERs. (a magic cure means that I can get away with not working on it since no one will notice )Sobriety is not about doing it because I might get caught, but rather because it will kill me and destroy my life, and the lives of those dearest to me including my future wife, my future kids, my reputations, and my LIFE. (how do I go back to feeling this realization. The full force of it seems to have faded from my mind)

OKAY,

I brought my ipod with me for the first time in a while on the train and I listened to some shiurim from duvid chaim. And guess what no ER problems for the rest of day (with two exceptions). One, when I called my kallah, but it was an outa-nowhere one and not triggered by thoughts, so that is acceptable, (and it went away very quickly). the second one I'll get to shortly. So I think that my theory is correct in that it is more about keeping busy, working on recovery and the ERs will become more manageable. No magic underwear

Also, what helped, aside from the shiurim, was talking to my kallah in an actively engaged way (active listening and such) and also calling a very close friend of mine that I haven't spoken to for the past few weeks. I was very sober after that.

Then came 10pm...

I got home later than expected from mariv. was dreying around on the computer, GYE and stuff. (that was fine, but I really should've been sleeping. so self-discipline issue) then I was trying to make an order to get a present for my kallah for the yichud room. Jewely or something (that's the minhag I'm told). So I was ordering it. Then I was like (this was stupid) "while I'm making orders why don't I see about buying some of that magic underwear" Guess what the website I went to had an ad for it and it was very triggering without going into details, I was not expecting it. and shut it off within the 3-second rule. But I knew that i had overstepped a boundary.Even though  i surrendered to Him i had still gone looking for it (not for that but honestly what was i expecting to happen in an incognito mode (My filter extends to my incognito tabs, but I think something was stinkin about my thinkin.) So Ifelt how could i expecti HIM to help me after bringing it on myself.

Anyway i made the order for the jewely and went to go to sleep. i will skip the details, but i had three major tests that night. i passed 2 of them myself using various GYE techniques, but the middle one i had no chance and Hashem saved me. I didn't deserve the help but He pulled me out of it anyway and here I am still clean. Today is new day and I intend to not harp on yesterdays experience.

It happened, it's in the past, I intend to take the lessons and be more cautious next time.

lessons learned:

1) don't mosey around on the internet late at night. Go to sleep.

2) don't put myself in a risky situation that is a vaday risk to try and avoid a safek (that realization is what got me to stop by the way) [details aside]

3) Not to focus too much on this fall since that will lead me to another fall. I should just pick myself up and keep trucking without letting it get me down. Just because yesterday was a challenge doesn't mean that today will be. TODAY is a new day and we'll see what it brings.

4) seeing the triggering stuff does not cause me to act out. I saw it, big deal, not pleasant, but I don't have to let it overpower me. The real ticket in recovery is, I think, to be able to see something really bad (not intentionally) and brush it off and keep climbing without any guilt trip or letting it take over your mind. surrender and move on.



==============================================================

Today (take 1),

I feel terrible. And I feel even worse that I feel terrible since I know it is just leading towards a fall. I want to be out. This is really unstabilizing. Going through the day.

What makes it worse is I really enjoyed it. It was amazing and as much as I am trying I can't seem to bring up clear enough feelings of all the bad I feel after. Maybe that is because I didn't finish. (obviously, my yetzer now says, oh so go finish and then you'll have enough bad feelings to keep it fresh in your mind. That may be true, but it will fade as it did last time and then what? I should do it again?! LOL)

As much as I tell myself it is poison to me the lust, it still felt so good. why? WHY? Urrhh... This is so difficult?


================================================================
I'm writing this next one not because I really believe it, but because maybe writing it out will help...
===============================================================

ToDAY (take 2),

Wow!! What a challenging night last night! I passed! Only because of all the personal growth I have achieved over the last stretch here at GYE! I felt as I was going down that I was fighting for every quarter. And at the last minute when all hope was lost, Hashem saved the day! Hashem saved ME! Wow That means He cares about ME. Oh, Boy!

IT's been a challenge today, as expected. The flares of enjoyment will fade. They are just vacous callings. It doesn't help that the weather is very hot so people sometimes forget about their wardrobe in the heat. Silly thing really. On the plus side, the weather is GREAT! and the sun is very warm on my face which is very nice. And the sun is strong enough that it gets me in the eyes sometimes as a friendly reminder that Hashem gives me to show me where I should put them.

I know its going to be tough, but I have grown so much, and I think the real challenge here is not falling away in guilt over this. So that is what I shall be working on.

Thank you Hashem for giving me a real reminder, as I was getting so comfortable and confident with my station. That you for reminding me how much I need Your help in all things especially this. Thank you for not letting me fall. ODAAT*. Please help me for today. If I fall in the future, that's out of my hands, but just for today, I would love to be sober.

ODAAT. ODAAT, and ODAAT.



Thank you GYE, that was a painful post to write.


* Some crazy idea entered me head about falling before getting married being the worst thing in the world. It's not true. if I fall TODAY that is not good. But falling in the future is fine, because hopefully when the future becomes the present, Hashem will gift me with it sober.

Growstrong wrote:


I surrender