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29 May 2017 21:24
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Rick
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I'm not here to diminish or make lite the challenges you overcome by not masturbating or not watching porn, I'm just trying to give chizuk ( and to vent )
I've started masturbating about 12 years ago, it felt good, I didn't even know it was bad at all, I thought it was like a regular kind pleasure sort of like a message (except a little more embarrassing and private).
before I learnt that it was bad, I was addicted, since then my "clean steak" did not reach 17 days.
(recently I almost beat it but I feel at day 16, I was so embarrassed and frustrated that I didn't want to "reset" the 90 day chart, I gave up, and when I finally got back into it, I was still to embarrassed to say that I failed again, so I said I was still clean, and I got a 30 day clean award)
I am starting again on the forums 3 fails since almost beat my record and 3 days clean.
all I am asking of you is that you dont get down on yourself by thinking that your fight is unbeatable, because if you're fight is unbeatable then I got major issues, but for every fight you win gives me (yes, me, selfish me) chizuk knowing that I still got a chance
(sorry if I'm being selfish, I just want to start over strong)
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29 May 2017 17:03
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David de Oude
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So I've had some time to calm down, and to get my thoughts straight.
I WANT to stop this. I am going to beat it. But I realise that I have to be realistic. I AM an addict, and I AM susceptible to triggers. What I have to implement is a true mindset shift.
What I mean by that is I have to be constantly vigilant of dangerous areas, even before triggers come. I have to be aware of where they are.
So here's my plan:
I am going to step up my daily prayertime. It's an appointment now, no excuses, set at 05:00 every day. This will serve to bring me closer to G-d, and also get me into the mindset that I am going into the fray once more, that I have to be on my guard.
Secondly, my phone has been cleaned of any and all social apps except GYE. iPhone restrictions are in place. It sleeps on my desk as a rule from now on, no exceptions. I have many other things to keep me busy than Youtube and Facebook.
Thirdly, I always say to replace your prayer life with a life of prayer. In addition to my prayertime in the morning I aim to be constantly in conversation with G-d throughout the day.
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29 May 2017 16:43
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Shivisi_Hashem
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Day #40
B"H I passed day #39, what a journey, Today is #40.
Yesterday I was clean as clean, super clean, no lust or anything else..
Thank You Hashem, thanks for my great partner, and thanks to all of you.
40 days means a lot for me, R' Elimailach says in Tsetel Kuten, that doing anything 40 days in a row, breaks a habit... so here I am, I'm sooo excited... but, i won’t fool myself, I’m still an addict, and I need to be constantly fully aware of that. I’m still on top of the hill, one slip and booms.
2 days to the big day!!! By matan torah the yidden were very besimcha, why not be Besimcha, they are getting a "Matanah Tova" plus, there was no depression at all about the passed, because they didn't had yet the torah, they didn't had any mitsves or aveires, so the simcha was till the sky, so the same is happening today in 2017, it comes down the same simcha, and we shouldn’t look at the passed, as if we didn't have the torah until now, and now we are getting it from fresh.... בכל יום יהיה מחודשים בעינך
today is #40, and today only, היום אם בקולו תשמעו, I will be on top of my soul, I'm not interested what happend in the past, and what it will happen in tomorrow or in 2 weeks, or 2 months... and the today is not that long, just a few hours, and Hashem, please stay on my 2 sides, please don't let me down, I want to stay clean, and help me and all Klal Yisroel stay clean
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29 May 2017 16:14
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Workingguy
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Shlomo24 wrote on 29 May 2017 04:58:
bear wrote on 28 May 2017 06:10:
Hey Guys,
I was wondering if I could get your thoughts on one of my challenges. I think a lot of times what causes me to fall is the feeling that I am...
I read this and I related a lot. I used to always think that I missed out on certain activities when I was a teenager (I'm only 21) and in high school. I had a lot of friends who talked to girls and hung out and I didn't really do that. Even in SA, when I first joined I considered myself a high-bottom drunk as I had never had sex with anyone. I felt like I was missing out. When I had my first sexual experience with another person about 2 years ago, I actually had the logic that "now I'm going to be one of the guys who actually had sex, I'll be a real sex addict." I have a right to feel that way, as sick as that might be. You have a right to feel the way you do, even though your better judgement tells you that you shouldn't feel the way you feel. There's nothing we can do about feelings. They come and they go. I still feel, from time to time, that I wish I had more guts in high school. What helps me is realizing that God created my life exactly the way it's supposed to be. If I was supposed to have a different life then I would have had a different one. For whatever reason, this is what God planned for me and it was the perfect plan. Accepting my past for what it was has been helpful. Also, I try not to dwell on the past. I have a whole future that can be anything I want it to be. I can live my life the way I want to.
I always felt that way and still do about High School; if I had done stuff and been involved in stuff I wouldn't have these longings of "if only". And Shlomo, I definitely do have the mentality that once my wife found out I was into pornography anyway and it was as much trouble as it did. Would it ever really made such a difference if I had acted out with someone?
I feel it even more when I see people who did all that and became super serious and are now living very inspired lives while I am struggling. And I think to myself see they got it out of their system. But of course, we have no idea really
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29 May 2017 13:44
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Dailybattle
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Hi Cordnoy,
I appreciate the honest advice in your reply and do take the point that I am not divulging much of the 'dirty details' in my battle. However, although I don't masterbate and constantly watch the worst on the web, I do watch porn (in an addictive manner when I do, spending hours trying to get round filters etc) and that is a problem that is affecting me enough to come to the space that is GYE as I don't want to confront the problem with a Rabbi or Sefer etc ( whether I should take that route or not is immaterial, I have chosen to use GYE as it is as far as my comfort zone for this matter stretches).
How bad does my problem need to be to qualify? I am not being sarcastic; I genuinely want to know if my issue belongs here or if I'm wasting my time.
Many thanks.
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29 May 2017 13:31
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Markz
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think good wrote on 29 May 2017 09:13:
i just noticed an email (from 17th March!) asking who is still around?
I am still here, super busy but as always an addict.
I'm sure there must be some of us still around or at the least a new bunch.
A good Yom Tov to all TG
Same to you ' thinkgood', so long as we're not doing too much thinking it'll be good. It has got me into 'trouble'
When will we hear from you next?
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29 May 2017 13:22
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cordnoy
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Welcome,
My humble opinion is that GYE forum is not good for you. Here, we are mainly addicts of some sort or another deeply rooted in our behaviors. We have people that have been in recovery for years, some less than that and some not at all. Most of us are dealin' with porn and masturbation and perhaps even more than that.
Part of recovery for us is to guard our eyes and there is chizuk for that on the forum and in the emails and elsewhere, but primarily, w are dealing with these things on a much more open manner, and for many, it is a deep psychological issue, which we deal with as well.
You seem like a fellow that likes the shape of a nice lookin' woman, sneaks a peek at some extra skin or cleavage here and there and one who is not learnin' or davanin' up to par and therefore lacks the true connection with the ribbono shel olam.
My humble advice: speak to your rav and discuss which mussar sefer to start with and which gemora seder/shiur you should join.
No need to listen to me; I am a mere lustaholic. If you stick around, I certainly will engage you and try to answer all your questions.
B'hatzlachah
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29 May 2017 09:13
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think good
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i just noticed an email (from 17th March!) asking who is still around?
I am still here, super busy but as always an addict.
I'm sure there must be some of us still around or at the least a new bunch.
A good Yom Tov to all TG
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29 May 2017 04:58
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Shlomo24
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bear wrote on 28 May 2017 06:10:
Hey Guys,
I was wondering if I could get your thoughts on one of my challenges. I think a lot of times what causes me to fall is the feeling that I am...
I read this and I related a lot. I used to always think that I missed out on certain activities when I was a teenager (I'm only 21) and in high school. I had a lot of friends who talked to girls and hung out and I didn't really do that. Even in SA, when I first joined I considered myself a high-bottom drunk as I had never had sex with anyone. I felt like I was missing out. When I had my first sexual experience with another person about 2 years ago, I actually had the logic that "now I'm going to be one of the guys who actually had sex, I'll be a real sex addict." I have a right to feel that way, as sick as that might be. You have a right to feel the way you do, even though your better judgement tells you that you shouldn't feel the way you feel. There's nothing we can do about feelings. They come and they go. I still feel, from time to time, that I wish I had more guts in high school. What helps me is realizing that God created my life exactly the way it's supposed to be. If I was supposed to have a different life then I would have had a different one. For whatever reason, this is what God planned for me and it was the perfect plan. Accepting my past for what it was has been helpful. Also, I try not to dwell on the past. I have a whole future that can be anything I want it to be. I can live my life the way I want to.
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28 May 2017 19:32
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Shivisi_Hashem
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Day #39
B"H I passed day #37 & 38, what a journey, Today is #39.
Shabes was great, i didnt had any struggle, i feel B”H great, Friday i had a VERY hard & tough day, BUT, it passed clean, הודו לשם, i will fight & fight untill my last day of life, iy"h, my father in the sky will be very proud of me...
i won’t fool myself, I’m still an addict, and I need to be constantly fully aware of that. I’m still on top of the hill, one slip and booms.
Thank You Hashem, thanks for my great partner, and thanks to all of you.
In 3 days it will be ראש השנה for our sickness, ראש השנה לאילנות, כי האדם עץ השדה, lets pray for a good verdict, i wish you all a כתיבה וחתימה טובה,
today is #39, and today only, היום אם בקולו תשמעו, I will be on top of my soul, I'm not interested what happend in the past, and what it will happen in tomorrow or in 2 weeks, or 2 months... and the today is not that long, just a few hours, and Hashem, please stay on my 2 sides, please don't let me down, I want to stay clean, and help me and all Klal Yisroel stay clean.
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28 May 2017 16:52
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Workingguy
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anonymous_14.1 wrote on 28 May 2017 12:10:
Gazing at immodest Internet is a serious problem. Do not blind yourself to the negative effects that might come as a consequence of this. To mention a few: health, intelligence, relationships, finances, self-esteem, morality, character, … all these can be negatively affected. From personal experience I know it can be very difficult to stop even if it is causing your ruin. If all you have to do is get up from your computer and stop looking at immodest images why is it so difficult? Don’t we have control of our hands, feet , eyes… What is involved as I heard from R Noah Weinberg obm from Aish HaTorah, is a man's need for connection to the infinite, a longing for spiritual pleasure. One can confuse this longing with the desire for physical pleasure. We are really seeking a connection with the infinite which is where our souls come from and what they seek out. (The body needs a finite amount of pleasure, more than this is harmful). So I'll go out and seek spiritual pleasure The problem is that we have a negative inclination (the evil inclination) that seeks to destroy us. In relation to this confusion between the obstacles to doing good the Vilna Gaon said: " what a person says they want or feel they want, has no relation to what they actually want. The evil inclination has been given permission to make a person feel they want something they really don't. The evil inclination also has permission to make you feel you cannot when you can. This has no relation to what you can or cannot do in reality. So believe you can succeed even if you feel you can't. " The first step to leaving this destructive habit is to actively want to leave it. If you seek out help you will be greatly assisted. ..., the Sages taught the following with regard to the verse: “Sanctify yourselves and you will be sanctified” (Leviticus 11:44); a person who sanctifies himself a bit, they sanctify him and assist him greatly. If a person sanctifies himself below, they sanctify him above. If a person sanctifies himself in this world, they sanctify him in the World-to-Come. Yoma 39a 1 As you can see from the quotes below, daily Torah study is the prescribed way to break free from this damaging habit One cannot claim that the evil inclination forced one to sin. Hashem created the evil inclination yet created the Torah as its antidote. Learning Torah removes thoughts of sin. One is therefore not helpless. The evil inclination can be overcome through Torah study Bava Batra 16a
The Gemara continues to discuss Job’s statements: “Although You know that I am not wicked, and there is none that can deliver out of Your hand” (Job 10:7). Rava says: Job sought to exempt the whole world from judgment, claiming that all of a person’s actions are directed by God, and therefore one cannot be held culpable for his misdeeds. Job said before God: Master of the Universe, You created the ox with split hooves, making it kosher, and You created the donkey with closed hooves, making it forbidden; You created the Garden of Eden, and You created Gehenna; and similarly, You created righteous people and You created wicked people; who can restrain You? Seeing that You created people as either righteous or wicked, You cannot later complain about their actions. And how did Job’s friends answer him? “You do away with fear, and impair devotion before God” (Job 15:4) with such statements. True, the Holy One, Blessed be He, created the evil inclination, but He also created the Torah as an antidote to counter its effects and prevent it from gaining control of a person. Bava Batra 16a Rashi: But He also Created Torah: The antidote that cancels the passing thoughts of sin
Kiddushin 30b
So too the Holy One, Blessed be He, said to Israel: My children, I created an evil inclination, which is the wound, and I created Torah as its antidote. If you are engaged in Torah study you will not be given over into the hand of the evil inclination, as it is stated: “If you do well, shall it not be lifted up?” (Genesis 4:7). One who engages in Torah study lifts himself above the evil inclination. Kiddushin 30b Sukkah 52b
A Sage from the school of Rabbi Yishmael taught: My son, if this wretched one, the evil inclination, encounters you, pull it into the study hall, i.e., go and study Torah. If it is a stone it will melt, and if it is iron it will break, as it is stated with regard to the Torah: “Is not My word like fire, says the Lord, and like a hammer that breaks the rock in pieces?” (Jeremiah 23:29). Just as a stone shatters a hammer, so too one can overcome his evil inclination, which is as strong as iron, through Torah study. With regard to the second part of the statement: If it is a stone it will melt, this is as it is stated with regard to the Torah: “Ho, everyone who thirsts, come for water” (Isaiah 55:1), and it states: “The water wears the stones” (Job 14:19), indicating that water is stronger than stone. Sukkah 52b
Learning Torah is so strong it can take one out of the lowest levels of impurity. One who consistently sets time to study Torah every day will merit the ability to free oneself from sins (Sichos Haran 19).
Through Torah study one attains Da’as (wisdom, knowledge). Strong Da’as (wisdom, knowledge) allows one to fight sin (Likutey Moharan 56). The yetzer tov (good inclination) is given the power to overcome the yetzer hara (evil inclination) when one learns Torah intensely for its own sake, to draw closer to Hashem and bring Him joy (Ibid. 1). One’s thoughts turn towards lewdness, if one does not set times to learn Torah (Sefer Hamidos, Limud 52). The Rambam writes that one frees oneself from inappropriate thoughts through words of Torah. Immoral thoughts only enter a heart that is devoid of wisdom (Tiferes Bachurim, Article 3). The daily study of Torah may lead you to other actions that can help you. I have listed some that I find helpful: 2 Guard your eyes: The eyes see, the heart desires, and the body sins. What you do not see is much easier to forget and leave aside. 3 Exercise With a healthy body and mind cravings are reduced. 4 Mikvah, Cold showers, Tzitzit, Daily prayer. Other things that help to control lost. 5 Take care when you go out, do not frequent immodest places, always discretely gaze away from immodest images. Before I made fixed daily Torah study times, I would make desperate, frenzied attempts to quit that failed after some time but in this manner I am able to slowly leave the habit behind me. When all is said and done, this is a pleasure my body does not need and I am much , much better without it.
So glad to hear that you've been making progress through Torah study. You never wrote about your progress so I assumed that Oy didn't have any. I'm glad to see that you finally do. Baruch HaShem.
It's worked for a lot of people but not for others. Some big gedolim say that Torah is NOT the answer for serious addicts. Since I know that you are very machshiv the words of gedolim, as the Pasuk says- ועשית ככל אשר יורוך- I think you just might want to be careful not to be עובר on לפני עור לא תתן מכשול which we know חז״ל explain as meaning that you may not give a person an עצה שאינה הוגנת לו. So be careful that you aren't advising this for people who it won't work for.
Much hatzlacha in your continued recovery.
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28 May 2017 10:17
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GrowStrong
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lionking wrote on 28 May 2017 10:14:
GS, Thanks! You are 100% correct. I knew most of these lessons ages ago. Until approximately 2 months ago, I haven't even tried being sober. Of course I tried to stop hundreds of times. However I didn't have a plan. It was like the story of the wagon driver getting stuck in the ditch every single time again... Recently I learned a very important lesson. I might be misquoting, something to the effect of: "The opposite of sobriety is loneliness" or "The opposite of addiction is connection". This time around, this lesson really hit home. I was in a time warp bubble, I didn't notice my slips. I was just down on myself and wallowing in self pity. Next think I know, I'm masturbating. My defenses were down.
Regarding what I am going to do now. First item on the list, I got my devices filtered already, so at least I should have that fence.
Second, I will connect to people and reach out when I feel down. I don't remember in past a time that I fell randomly without slipping before hand.
Third, I will keep up a connection with people even when the going is good and not get complacent. Daily tefilla for protection.
Great! Growstrong613@gmail
im here and willing to help soundboard and feedback
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28 May 2017 10:14
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lionking
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GS, Thanks! You are 100% correct. I knew most of these lessons ages ago. Until approximately 2 months ago, I haven't even tried being sober. Of course I tried to stop hundreds of times. However I didn't have a plan. It was like the story of the wagon driver getting stuck in the ditch every single time again... Recently I learned a very important lesson. I might be misquoting, something to the effect of: "The opposite of sobriety is loneliness" or "The opposite of addiction is connection". This time around, this lesson really hit home. I was in a time warp bubble, I didn't notice my slips. I was just down on myself and wallowing in self pity. Next think I know, I'm masturbating. My defenses were down.
Regarding what I am going to do now. First item on the list, I got my devices filtered already, so at least I should have that fence.
Second, I will connect to people and reach out when I feel down. I don't remember in past a time that I fell randomly without slipping before hand.
Third, I will keep up a connection with people even when the going is good and not get complacent. Daily tefilla for protection.
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28 May 2017 08:34
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GrowStrong
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My turn:
I cajoled manipulated begged discussed argued persuaded for years. It doesn't mean I was successful all the time... but most times if I was successful it was stated with clarity straight afterwards that I had put another nail into the coffin of our marriage.
Today in a conversation about a lot of this stuff, she admitted that of everything that's what she's most resentful about... the fact that I abused her love for me to get my own fix.
Cut to Friday night - we were cuddling and kissing a bit and at one point she said it was too intense and she was too scared to go further.
Of course now that I am in recovery there was no problem with it, I am happy to give her space and sex is now optional and it can't be just words it has to be real and not fake.
This is what I am dealing with now. Recovery is only a few months real and she barely has been present for these few months post birth.
But manipulation and cajoling was 17 years..
The fact is that I am saying the same things in recovery that I was saying in active addiction.
The only difference is now I now really mean it.
"No pressure, I want you to be happy, I never want sex that's one sided."
So I dug my own grave and I now have to eat it.
The fact is that it's true now. And only time and actions can fill the hole I dug with a ground to stand on again.
My wife is very sensitive and very guilt ridden which makes it harder. Last night she said to me that I should just leave her and get a wife who won't have all the scars of the past messing her up.
She said this partially because she is fearful of being able to get over the past but also because she feels sorry for me. Isn't that wild!
Of course I said many things about how ludicrous a statement it was...
Where did it come from? Maybe from me telling her that even if it takes a year or two for her to be ready for sex that's fine - I can wait.... but she can't be guilt ridden for that whole time!
Thank God we are in therapy and don't have to work through these things alone - they fill
me with a lot of confusion and fears also... And my physical discomfort doesn't make things easier - it confuses things a lot for me.
Every women is different and we all have our own pekeleh.
What we lose out from such raw emotional honesty we gain from such a close communicative connection.
I know there are many people who would be envious of the open communication we have over these issues-but for me the raw openness opens up much pain without any filters.
The bottom line is I spent many years in active addiction and it may take many years of positive sobriety before a real healing will take place between us in the bedroom... and my job right now is to 'live' sex is optional. Or even off the table. And work with the therapist on getting guilt off the table. Building trust in action and proof of actions.
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26 May 2017 19:22
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Workingguy
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I would say that first of all, in my personal situation I think that there is only one it's ever that I masturbated on the same day as a day that I had relations with my wife. I also would say, as does my wife, that she doesn't feel that I ever used her as a sperm bank.
what she would say bothers her is that when we would talk about our intimate life not in the bedroom, I would too often expressed displeasure in either the frequency or the fact that she doesn't initiate. And she made it clear that she wants me to initiate but yeah I would have no problem turning me down often. Which was too hard for me because I don't like rejection. So for me, it's been a little different. And I'm more of the split personality addict- The one who's got not enough of the sense of self to be really selfish; I don't know if I've ever done anything in the bedroom that made my wife uncomfortable. But on my own, I'm completely selfish.
So to each their own, and I certainly agree with corduroy in this case. I'm typing on voice typing it, and I'm going to leave his name as corduroy.
All I'm saying is that we shouldn't throw that around so much because I think people have definitely gotten carried away, too many people are walking around with too much guilt as a result, and as I think grow strong point it out, some of the wives are retroactively feeling like sperm banks because they didn't feel used till now but now their husbands are coming with so much shame and guilt that they are making their wives feel bad. Which, by the way, is also very selfish and self-centered.
but to reiterate, I do agree about this specific case
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