tzomah wrote on 15 Dec 2017 10:15:

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tzomah wrote on 15 Dec 2017 10:15:

Fear of the skies falling
Solution:  Build a giant tower to hold the skies up

hi i am new to this religion can someone enlighten me what the heck 
is "yiras shomayim" ?

1.Dms wrote" mussar cant help  me" " Mussar cant help me in that state" which means  ( to me ) he doesnt learn mussar as of now  ,unless hes forcing himself to  learn something that he knows cant help him , then ill eat my words.  i dont know if i would learn something that i know  cant help. 
Markz wrote" But an addiction problem (on whatever level) needs to be dealt with the appropriate tools that Hashem created e.g. 12 steps "
i wasnt saying to learn mussar without the 12 steps ,to quote
" my freind learn musar , dont get crushed by the demands of  musar , but learn it IN ADDITION to what ever a person needs in recovery,"meaning e.g. the 12 steps
2. Markz wrote"ieeyc if you know how yiras shamayim is supposed to gain sobriety why don't you pass 100 days clean with it?"-" we need to try share what we have personal experience with"  if i do 100 days that shows that yiras shamayim works  ,and if i do only 9 days its not  a proof?and if i fall day 110 does that show that yiras shamayim doesnt work?unless your question  is" if yiras shamayim brings to sobriety why dont you just stop forever" well just like people who are sober because  of 12 steps, fall if they stop working the 12 steps , so too if someone is sober because of yiras shamayim, if they stop working  yiras shamayim they could also fall.but my point in the chat was stop saying" my goal in  recovery is to focus on this and that and working on yiras shamayim  has no place for recovery at this  time in my life  for a sex addict like me" like i understood from some comments .i hope i made sense .im writing this at 4:49 am with a unfiltered ipad /computer within my reach,i havent done the 12 steps yet since im still at the first level ,and if not my working on yiras shamayim in addition to gye  ,i think id be doing other "stuff"now at  work where ive been here for 5 hours already which i have done many times in the past  before i got connected to gye.my wife ,or anyone  else aint around.only me  and my Creator who i owe SO much  and who ive disappointed so much ,and still has not given up  on  me.

and if i may add my 2 cents to this mussar/chassidus disscussion
i don't think that r'yisroel salanter learnt mussar for one day of his life and the baal shenm tov never learnt chassidus these people were working on themselves reach their potentiol  to the highest in all areas mainly bein adam lchaveiro they developed ways of doing that based on torah
 witch evolved into mussar and chassidus 
the point of all that was for a person to come to his own personal avodah 
but if you don't know how to do that you can sit and scream mah chovaso b'olamo fun haint biz morgen aint nothing gonna happen
it's gotta be personal and honest 
if the 12 steps works call it mussar chassidus whatever floats your boat the point is we all gotta a personal shlichus to work on our very own selves the name of your program is totally irrelevant 
i have heard this line said and it makes the same point the vilna gaon was never makpid on keeping the gaon and r' akiva eiger never learnt a r' akiva eiger and the chofetz chaim never learnt a chofetz chaim vechulu
it's gotta be you

tzaddik212 wrote on 15 Dec 2017 05:03:

tzaddik101 

חנוכה שמח
 How have you been doing the past two weeks? Recently, one thing that has been helping me stay clean was the following:
The last time that I fell, I fell many more times after that over the next number of days. However much time I spent enjoying as I fell, it was still not that much time. Other than those few moments, my quality of life was so much worse overall. 

When I'm tempted to look at something passing by

I try to remember that by looking, it's going to ignite sexual desire. In turn, that will push me to sin anywhere from forbidden thoughts - to forbidden actions. That will give me a brief amount of pleasure. After that, I'll feel like absolute garbage for days.
But if instead, I look away for those 5 seconds and ask God to help me - because he made me, he gave me this desire, he put that pretty girl in front of me, so now "please God, help me keep me clean" - and don't fall, then I won't feel like garbage. I'd rather miss the momentary pleasure than suffer the pain of negativity in my life.

In either case, I wish you much success.

On another note, because I'm not sure I understand where you're coming from and I'd love to understand you.
Regarding going to a therapist, do you

1. want to go
2. Not want to go
3. Not really care whether or not you go

Hi Eli
I read your post, and i am hearing your struggles and how tempting it is, and you don't have a way to get rid of it. 
well i can share with a tool that helped me. i made up with a friend that before i want to act out i need to make a call to him, and to discuss why and how i want to act out, and then i can go ahead, and act out. what i really gained that i had discussed it, i realized that it is not worth it.
Let me share with you another perspective of my addiction. my addiction needs oxygen to live on. the oxygen of my addiction is comprised of 2 elements. 1. secret.   2. deception. 
1. Secret. I tend to keep it a secret, and that is when i start the cruising and the thrill starts to build up. once i expose it to my trusted friend, then it is not anymore a secret, and loses momentum, and t loses its intensity.
2. Deception. My addiction always deceives me, and it tells me how urgent it is for me to act out. and it is a lie. It is always lying to me. by me making this phone call and to talk to my trusted friend, i realize that it is not so important for me to act out.
These are my tools Eli, if you need more of those, feel free to reach out to me.

"As i wrote earlier today, we need to try share what we have personal experience with, so please try keep the discussion with that focus"

Well Markz, that's exactly what i did. I am not here to philosophy recovery. 

Remember keep smiling. Lately I've been with a lot of stress, and its been rough. B''h (although I've lightly thought about it), i haven't acted out on it b''h. i don't know how, maybe its the success  I've had, or the way I've been abstaining, i don't know. Thinking about it its %100 a miracle. During the day sometimes i just feel miserable, and the work doesn't stop. Obviously I'm not an adult, plus the fact that  i don't have any real responsibilities, so i can't say i feel the way you feel, but i can sympathize with it.
Stress is terrible, it can ruin a whole day, a whole week, a whole year etc. As addicts an easy way for a "quick out" for the stress is to fall. But as we know, immediately after, we feel worse, and even more stressed than we originally were, its a terrible state to be in for everyone. 
​Being that its nearly to escape the stresses of life, we need to learn different ways to cope. Do you have any hobbies, do you enjoy any sports, do you like family time. This experience is a great time to learn about yourself. 
You have to not only learn to be happy, but also to learn how to deal with non-happy times.
CONTINUE TO POST. We all need it. Use the light of the candles to light up your spirit, you are breathing today because Hashem decided you have what to add to the world, and to yourself.
Do your best to enjoy the rest of Chanuka, YOU OWE IT TO YOURSELF

Markz wrote on 14 Dec 2017 19:00:

Just a little sequel because I saw this mentioned on the chat on the topic

Theres a simple equation on this side of the woods, and its called "what works for me"

ieec if you know how yirash shamayim is supposed to gain sobriety why don't you pass 100 days clean with it?

As i wrote earlier today, we need to try share what we have personal experience with, so please try keep the discussion with that focus

Thanks bro

Just to add my 2 cents.

Well the perspective i have on Mussar, is that in reality we are Human animals. and living with our instinctive animal traits is harmful in so many ways. Addiction is part of the animalistic way of life. musar and Chassidus can help for some addicts to position themselves in the right direction. so they are having the right perspective in their daily life struggles. it helps them feel connected to a greater cause. a cause of Kirvas Elokim, which in essence is helping them to stay clean in life.
Well for some this does not work, because they associate learning musar, with being Farkvetched, or being depressed. well this is not the right way to approach niether musar or Chassidus.
Reb Yisroel salanter meyased Tenuat Hamussar, approahed learning Musar as a skill, with Hispa'alos. It is a positive experience to go through this process. same will apply with learning Chassidus. 
were living in very confusing times. there is a HUGE detour from our old  Heritage of Musar and Chassidus, which helps a Yid to over come the Nisyonos hador, to our todays learning of musar and chassidus that seems to be so boring to so many of us. if it is boring for us, it means that were approaching it the wrong way. 
Learning Musar and chassidus, should lift and elevate anyone that dwells into it. it is so profound, there is so many factors to put the mind to, there are so many new ideas to grasp and to process, and it is so educational, and most important usefull.
anyways, i hope it makes sense to anyone here, let me know your thoughts on this topic. 

Sure - each man is open to express his opinion here ;-)

Mine is that we should suggest ideas that are tried and tested by the writer

So please leave the marriage suggestion for married guys to share from actual experience

I could suggest outrageous ideas to you, would you like me to? No
So I'm asking you here the same way. Ok I think I made my point

And you base it on the premise as you wrote "That these men may be addicted to porn, or heavy porn users, is not enough reason for them to avoid the shidduch process".

Actually it is a pretty good reason to delay the process, and it all boils down to what their coach / rabbi directs them to do.

In a nutshell; you are the one that created a problem for these unmarried guys and then offered an unsubstantiated solution

Please rethink over the whole thing

Thank you lionking

Markz.

I was not married before.
But I have seen friends flourish with marriage to good Kosher women and build decent warm households.

I am convinced that the drive for sex is a core drive of healthy adult humans once puberty has been reached.
This is intertwined with the core drive for a partner.

Friendships can be good, but nothing can replicate the place that a spouse has in one's life.

So yes, I am concerned that unmarried men here are denying themselves the opportunity of a shidduch when in reality these men should go ahead and at least meet a potential kallah to see if they are suitable.
It is not good to be too hard on oneself.
It can too easily lead to depression.
Mussar is essential, but excessive chastisement is not productive nor Yiddishkeit.
There has to be positive encouragement in life, not just reprimanding people..either by oneself or from someone else.

That these men may be addicted to porn, or regular porn users, is not enough reason for them to avoid the shidduch process, in my opinion.
If all they do all day long is watch porn and never leave the house then they are extreme cases and need specialist care and should avoid finding a shidduch.

But if they otherwise live a productive life, then they should work on stopping porn use, and understand why they use porn, but go ahead and try to find a shidduch.
Otherwise they could be waiting a few months for a shidduch or a few years for a shidduch, how can they know?
Then they may find another reason to delay the shidduch   i.e. need to lose weight, need to get a promotion at work, need to do this need to do that etc. etc. and before they know it they are in their 60's and finding a shidduch is tricky.

I do not plan to write more about this, I have explained my position on this subject.

Thank you lionking

Markz.

I was not married before.
But I have seen friends flourish with marriage to good Kosher women and build decent warm households.

I am convinced that the drive for sex is a core drive of healthy adult humans, certainly once puberty has been reached.
This is intetwined with the core drive for a partner.

Friendships can be good, but nothing can replicate the place that a spouse has in one's life.

So yes, I am concerned that unmarried men here are denying themselves the opportunity of a shidduch when in reality these men should go ahead and at least meet a potential kallah to see if they are suitable.

That these men may be addicted to porn, or heavy porn users, is not enough reason for them to avoid the shidduch process.
They can work on stopping porn use anyway, otherwise they could be waiting a few months for a shidduch or a few years for a shidduch, how can they know?
Then they may find another reason to delay the shidduch etc i.e.e need to lose weight, need to get a promotion at work need to do this need to do that etc etc.

But that's just my opinion.

That's all I have to write on the matter.