I'm looking out of the periscope of my Tank (Gev counted 18 wheels ;-), and its dark... daaaaark. Dunno why

Im now working with workingguy speaking daily, and if I still remain stuck in the dark, it's gonna have to be a serious chat with Cordnoy and Dov maybe to take to next level...

Signed
Formerly a non addict

although i do look for loopholes on occasion more as a hobby than a need for shmutz (once i find the loophole then the urge kicks in), this time it chanced upon me and suddenly i realized that i was doing things i shouldnt be. i contacted nativ to fix the issue and they took care of most of it and their technicians are trying to figure out the rest. in the meantime i took care of the rest myself.
i know that i need to work on myself, more than on the filter but i do find that the less access the less urge. the facts are that i only rarely have access. this all goes back to the big question if im addicted or not. it may be a normal yetzer horah that one has when its available in front of him. then the main thing to do is avoid the situation... 

I also realized recently that I want the addiction (or whatever it may be) to disappear but I don't have the real push to work on it. But I know that this don't gonna help me & I cannot use it as an excuse. We need to find ways to become clean one day at a time just like we find ways to feed the בהמה inside us with what he wants (and want us to think that we need it as well)

i appreciate all the chizuk. the reason for my focus on the fall more than the over 200 clean is because ive never really been addicted for long periods of time (or maybe im not a real addict at all...). my usual trend has always been about a year to a year and a half clean and then fall and go on about a 2 week binge
(just porn but no mzl. if i feel myself going too far that im at risk of mzl i stop right there for the time being. but i know that no one can trust oneself...). since joining gye i thought i would be able to do better than that. its my first fall since joining. b"h nativ fixed my filter issue but my immediate need right now is to get rid of the urge i have in me to find ways to watch more and fantasize at times.

Let’s leave cajoling raping etc out of it. In marriage, often one spouse wants to do something- take a walk, go on vacation, see a show to movie, go to a lecture- and they don’t want to do it alone, and they want their spouse to join them. 

Is there an issue if someone’s wife says “Cone with me to the vort, I hate to go alone” “But I’m not so interested” “but do it for me” “ok fine, of course”.

Thats a very normal, healthy part of marriage for normal people. Do something for your spouse if you’re not so in the mood because they want to, and you want to make them happy. Now, should we be the askers of those type of things? In a healthy relationship, the wife wants you to be asking her (not talking about sex) to be there for you.

Sex is only different because so many people aren’t healthy about it, but fundamentally, there is no difference between saying “just come on the walk with me, it’ll be fun” and doing whatever it is we’re discussing here. 
That’s in a normal situation; because people here are addicts, porn watchers, etc there is an element of taking advantage of the other person because we might be doing all sorts of things on the side, that is why it is worse and different.

But we also have to know what’s normal in a healthy marriage and not add guilt where none is due.

My above post was made in jest.

I don't pretend to be an authoritative source on linguistics, and am just as confused as you are on a lot of the words which are the jargon over here. Not even sure if I think I am an addict or not, or if I understand what that word is supposed to mean, and for all practical purposes I really don't care.
People definitely use words here, out of context, if you use a Webster's dictionary to define them. Perhaps they are just tryin' to make a point. I can explain what raping means, but I think I might be a little too graphic. Not in the mood to cause anyone any sensitive issues.

Workingguy wrote on 21 Jan 2018 14:35:

We need a Tread called "Confusing Words"

To you cajoling means one thing - I assure you many people don't understand it that way

Why does there need to be a humorous aspect to it?
Why does the wife need to feel desired?
If she's cajoled to be willing and wasn't forced - isn't that also included?

From my understanding this is where cordnoys confusing word "raping" comes in here.

The lines are blurred... who's gonna take the bold step and start that thread?

You can start with the word "addict". 2 weeks ago I fell after 160 days and got an automated email from GYE I should consider if I'm an addict - although according to the definition of addict I don't believe I am...

I think such a big thing with addiction, and  not just sex addiction but any addiction, is to look ahead and recognize when a challenging setting might come up. And plan ahead. I’ve read a few books on addiction and I’m learning to do this. (If anyone has some great book recommendations I’m always open) If I’m going to be somewhere for a weekend where I know there’s is going to be unfiltered Internet. I have to plan ahead. I have to make strict gedarim. I have to come into that situation with a plan. Otherwise before I know it I’ll end up at my climax, pop back into reality, and hey it’s too late.

its a similar thing I’m trying to do here. I’m trying to prepare for marriage. I’m trying to screw my head on straight! Just trying to figure out where to start!

Very interesting idea you bring up, and I totally take your word on it. It definitely makes a lot of sense being that chava was made from adam. Do you by any chance have a source that you’re quoting from?

just to redirect and clarify my question a little bit, obviously no pressure to respond if you’re busy, and to others, id love to hear your responses. I understand the desire and I now understand that it is an innate and very natural desire, as man was created to be with a women. My question to the married men on here who I’m discovering to have some really amazing things to say, is what would you tell yourself if you were twenty years old? I’m ready to wait until I’m 22 to date, and I’m ready to commit to being a productive single guy until then, but I want to work on myself in this area. My biggest fear is to bring porn into my marriage. My parents are divorced, and because of that, my number one dream is for Shalom bayis. I Daven for it a lot. It’s my ultimate goal.
If you could tell something to your younger self that was heading towards marriage, what would you would have told him? What could you have done differently?

I feel the pain of a married man captured by this addiction. When I watch porn, I’m hurting myself. The effect on others is relatively minimal. I’m a single unit. But I’m sure when a married man watches the shame cycle is that much worse. That’s what I desperately want to avoid. And I know that the basic answer is to just stay clean and continue my recovery, but maybe you guys have something sound to say that can help?

Hey newtogye,
Stay strong! Obviously the goal is recovery, and there are many tools for that around here. But until then, try to be positive. So much of the negative affects that porn addiction brings is self inflicted. Being negative brings the shame and ruins your relationships. Tell yourself that you’re going to work on this, but don’t get down. Stay positive and keep a smile on your face. Try to bring positivity in to the relationships in your life. You will see great results.
You got this.

Hey GYE community,
I’m 20 years old. I grew up in a broken home.. divorce.. remarriage. For years, the way I escaped from everything was pornography and masturbation. I always disliked this behavior but I kept on doing it. When I got to beis medrash though, I knew I had to put a stop to it once and for all. So I made a decision to stop. I got rid of my smartphone. Two weeks later I fell. I watched porn on the tiny grainy screen of the basic phone I had. I was baffled. I was doing great in yeshiva. Why would I do that? It wasn’t even enjoyable. It was a tiny screen and i couldn’t see anything. Well, as I had learned to do so well over the years, I jumped back up and forced myself to Seder and began to learn, fighting to push thoughts of resentment out of my mind. And then I went a couple more months clean before falling again on my fathers computer. And then I had to get back up and force myself back into regular yeshiva schedule, committed to not fall again, but as a couple months pass, the commitment weakens. And the same cycle continued. One time I fell though, I felt like I had hit rock bottom and I decided right there that I am going to see a therapist for my problems. So I told my parents I want to go to therapy. Thing is, I didn’t tell them a specific reason, and as you can imagaine, the therapist that we found wasn’t quite used to dealing with problems that people like us have. And after continuing to go through my fall and get back up cycle a few more times I finally forced myself to find a proper therapist. I found one, and now I am in recovery, already having seen this therapist about 10 times. I am 1000% a supporter of therapy. And I think that there are many many people who are only in the blue section of this website that can greatly benefit from the tremendous power of therapy. Most people can benefit tremendously from therapy even if you aren’t a sexual addict! I’m clean from porn for about 7 weeks. From masturbation.. not quite as long. More like 5 days, but you know, it’s a work in progress. I try to be positive. I’m hopeful that my future is a sober one, my marriage is a healthy and happy one, and I can be the father and husband and have the career I’d like to be and have. I’m shadowed by a little pessimism though. Even though I’ve had a level of short term success many times, I can’t seem to imagine never watching porn again. It seems impossible. And unrealistic. Should I just be thinking shorter term? Anyways, just wanted to introduce myself. I’d really appreciate if people reach out. Thanks

Newtogye wrote on 17 Jan 2018 09:33:

@Newtogye I’m not married.
I’m curious though, accepting that I had an addiction brought me much comfort.
Also what’s so strange about this addiction?

Hi, I’m also new. I feel so bad for the things I’ve seen and the zera levatala that I’ve spilled. And having my spouse and child sleeping in the next room makes me feel so bad with myself! It’s like I’m lying to them - when I know that I what have is a strange addiction. I’m also lost, not sure how or where to start. It does give me comfort to know I’m not alone. 

unanumun wrote on 15 Jan 2018 15:53:

i think there is a huge difference between learning mussar and mussar sedorim and working on living it
mussar and chassidus is all about self awarness not shuckling and crying or singing over a sefer

Sometimes mussar can help. For me there were times I kept to a clear mussar schedule and I was fine with porn and acting out until a few weeks went by and I slowly slipped out of the mussar Seder. Particularly, often the reason would be for the same stresses and pressures that led me down the path of escaping to porn.

I myself never went to a twelve step meeting and didn't work through the steps in a clear answer systematic way. I have been clean thought since I joined gye (I think it's going on 4 years now).
However, what I learned here was to acknowledge the fact that my escape (and bad habit or perhaps some sort of addiction) was the solutions to my problem and not my problem.Understanding addictions and how the twelve steps helps, opened up a new way of looking at things. I definitely read through the twelve steps and put lots of thought into them. Especially the first few steps.

After being clean for a few years and retrospection, I think that perhaps yes I would've been able to stay clean had I learned mussar every day. And then I would have been able to live my entire life fighting this yetzer hara, perhaps winning more perhaps not but definitely through fighting for the rest of my life.

What I really needed was to understand my self better, understand my marriage better, understand the idea of giving to my wife in our intimate relationship and not taking. What I needed as well was to be exposed to raw honesty. (the kind that was basically demanded from gye members back when Dov was hanging around) to be honest with myself about where I was really holding what was really bothering me and what I really needed to do to change.I am not sure I would've have ever gotten that through learning mussar.  And I am pretty proficient in many of the classic mussar sedarim.  Perhaps if I had joined a group of mussarnicks (but that would've never happened).
Yes there are plenty of people who just have tayvas nashim on some level and by learning mussar they are able to keep it in check. But someone who is living a frum life externally but behind closed doors escaping to porn, obviously has a deeper problem than tayvas nashim. Had he learned mussar properly until that point, perhaps he wouldn't have ended up in such a place. But by the time someone reaches such a place (whether it is the age of 9 of the age of 50 ) there are deeper issues that need to be dealt with.

Once he picks up the yesodos of addiction and recovery and puts in the hard work to fix the main sources of his problem, then yes he can probably go back to learning mussar and know how to apply what he is learning to what he actually needs in life.(Sorry for the long post. I have a lot of catching up to do)