From talking to married people, in which most said that marriage made it harder while some said that marriage made it easier and thinking this over I realized (cud be I'm wrong and I want to hear people's opinions) that for someone that isn't addicted marriage will make it easier, and for an addict marriage makes it harder. Because for someone that is single to stop completely is hard because for him it's completely off limits, for a married guy it is permitted sometimes which will make it easier to stop for an non addict. But for an addict he definitely will have a hard time stopping as a single and even when he's married it will still be hard to stop and by him living a double life it will destroy him, and he might lose interest in his wife etc but if he is single he isn't really living a double life and isnt  tricking a person, nor is he experiencing a relationship in which he knows the right way to use it but isn't using it right. All he knows, he's doing something wrong. 

I agree if you are an addict. Maybe he isn't.

Hey all,

Here's something I wrote to a good friend today. I'm posting it here, cause it may be helpful to someone: 

"Stam. I just got some clarity.

I was getting really overwhelmed, feeling like I just can't stop taking actions of lust, because I have been taking many more actions of lust in a short period of time than I've taken in ages.

I've got some clarity as far as what keeps on driving these behaviors. Meaning, why am I suddenly careening of the road?

It has to do with how I felt about looking at porn which broke a 9 and a half month streak of not looking, and the unpleasantness of ejaculating without intending to at all (was not looking at porn), even though I know I didn't lose my sobriety, it was very unpleasant. It also broke a streak even if not of sobriety, it broke a streak of not orgasming.

Psychologically these things hurt my self esteem/ego ALOT.

Additionally, meetings didn't help me to stop this on and off lust binge, so this made we worried that they are just making me feel helpless and leading me to overemphasize this area of my life.

Here's the clarity I got: The only streak that Icare was broken was a streak of not having taken a real, deliberate action of lust for almost four months straight.

Cause even though I didn't look at porn for ages, I was still slipping each month, as you remember well.
So what is really dear to me is periods of not taking significant, deliberate actions of lust. I just had my longest streak ever. It was disheartening to break it. Going from freedom to jail is traumatic! But I should really be congratulating myself and moving the F on, try to break this record.

It feels like I've been lusting for a while now, but I've only been slipping on and off for a WEEK AND A HALF. A bad week and a half! That's all! In my mind, I had so little perspective, I figured it was AT LEAST two weeks!

This is how my addiction lies to me. It tells me that I can't help slipping, falling whatever. F him! He got 5 or 6 wins over this past week and a half and I've been kicking his butt for almost 4 months straight! I CAN live without taking actions of lust, and I can be happy doing it. I DID it! It's only my lying addiction which tries telling me otherwise.

Sorry for the rant and bad writing. Thanks for listening."

P.S. This was written to someone who is familiar with the things I mentioned. I'm not going to explain anything that isn't understood, but hopefully it's useful to someone. 

I've been reading more of Dov's posts (page 10 so far.) It's pretty interesting, and like I sort of already mentioned, refreshing writing.

Fortunately he rehashes a lot of the same concepts over and over again for the benefit of different people, which makes his culture not as large as it might otherwise have turned out to be.

Some of his concepts that I noticed recently:

1. Website forums are dangerous because unlike meetings they really are anonymous.
2. Not everyone is an addict by his definition, which will probably turn out to be hard to pin down, but basically I get it.
3. He spends a lot of effort and skill dangling something in front of people that may turn out to be happy in face to face meetings, but that's as far as he can go, which must be frustrating sometimes.
4. He only gets his victory when the candidate chooses to use the behavior of going to the face to face meeting, because everything flows from the behavior.
5. He can't really go past the point of describing what to do (show up at a meeting.)
6. He's a true citizen of his culture, more than most of his proteges can appreciate.

I think that a lot of different consequences must flow from the behavior of going to face to face meeting. These are some that I can think of so far:

• When you go to a meeting you watch yourself reject your desire. You watch yourself (and others, presumably) say "this is not really who I am."
• You can get help with a lot of practical issues that come up. It's teamwork.
• Encouragement.
• You can whine when you feel like doing it.
• You are ashamed to throw in the towel because you'll be letting your buddies down.
• You remind yourself that you have a problem, which your "real" life makes you forget about. Biofeedback. The physicality of the meeting makes it impossible for you to minimize or disqualify your mental health problem.

It's an interesting concept to hammer into yourself that your true nature is good. You would never know if you are right because there's no such thing as your true nature. But people hang their sense of self on whatever they want, and there's no reason why this shouldn't be so.

Luckily for me I still have a lot left to read ..,

lifebound wrote on 26 Jun 2018 17:00:

Dear Best Buddy Lifebound,
I am so inspired by your experience,strength and hope so articulately expressed

grateful4life wrote on 26 Jun 2018 16:17:

I'm sorry, but I believe is that a nazir uses a proven solution for addiction (alcoholism.)

There's also tons of data that what seems "proven" to one addict doesn't work at all for another one.

i-man wrote on 26 Jun 2018 03:40:

I went through the same thing. I called a very special person here on GYE every day for the first 2 months and have kept up since, two or three times a week. At this point we swap divrei Torah on the parsha or schmooze about our families, work, etc. However we both  also know we can use the opportunity to share "this issue" when the need arises. In the beginning I also asked myself, "What's wrong with me?" In fact it was more like "I am a loser that I have to do this." Now, BH I am very proud of myself that I put my shame on the side and did it. In reality I gained a new chaver. But more important, as time went on I stopped being ashamed and feeling "loserish", and started feeling proud and wiser. Look at it like someone that has had medical issues which were embarrassing (bathroom issues for example) who finally mustered up the courage to go to the doctor and now BH has resolved the issue. May Hashem give you continued hatzlocha!

I relate to much of what you wrote, although I think our perspectives on some points are a bit different.

For me, the important thing to realize was that, not only is it true that "marriage won't solve your sex addiction problems", but that marriage won't solve any of my problems. My issue is not just a "sex" addiction. At its core, it is an addiction to escaping from any/all problems or emotions I can't cope with. I have never heard from anyone that getting married solved all their issues. They all say the same thing: At best, you just swap out your old issues for new ones.

So in my situation, whether I'm looking to marriage as a sexual outlet, or as an outlet for my desire for emotional closeness and love, I'm pretty sure both would end in disaster. I am unable to cope with life or myself, and getting married, however noble the reason, will do nothing to address that. I need to learn how to live. For me, that meant seeking professional help, going to a therapist and joining SA. And that's why, at 25, I have put dating entirely on hold. And yes, as you say, there will always be things in life that can make me feel like crap. I don't expect to eliminate that. My way of dealing with crap does not work. So I need to learn the right way to do it.

I am not saying that this applies to you, or that you are a sex addict. (I don't think I've come across anyone who claimed that everyone on here is a sex addict.) Just sharing my own experience so far, in the hopes that it may be helpful.

All the best.

mzl wrote on 26 Jun 2018 10:02:

I'm not sure why you feel sad. Perhaps it is bec. you view this whole community as "the (lowly) sex addiction world".
I have a totally different view point. This community is a community of recovery, comprised of great people that are taking the herculean steps to recover from their overpowering struggle/addiction with lust.

Dov inspires so many thousands of people around the world via GYE that would otherwise "be left to the curb". How many artists/authors/rabbonim etc. have had such a direct and profound impact on people's lives as he has? 

"A few weeks ago, I was reading an article by a Rabbi from somewhere random and he was talking about teenagers/young adults who are constantly surrounded by adult material and have no healthy outlet for their drives. That really got me thinking. I have been trying to avoid coming to GYE because every time, the same few people would keep telling me that I have a sex addiction and that I should seek serious help and that marriage won’t solve any of my issues and that I’m screwed – well you get the idea.

Before I go further – I recognize that Sex Addiction is a serious thing and many people here are struggling with it – I am not here to minimize them or the hell they have to go through every day just to make it to tomorrow. I am talking about my experience and mindset alone.

So I was thinking – the Rabbi’s point was that a sexual drive is healthy. It’s not something we want to smoosh out of people. It’s something that one has to constantly work on harnessing and using in the proper way. Sexual immorality has been around since the dawn of time. Literally. The oldest profession is, after all, prostitution. And it has always been a struggle. Look through the Torah – it’s a theme we see over and over again.

But all of the sudden – in the year 2018 – it’s an epidemic. We are all “sex addicts” apparently. We all need major therapy and need to be locked in cages. (excuse the hyperbole)

I have come to realize that this is not true."

____________________________________________________________________________________

Thank you for coming back and sharing your thoughts.

Just my 2 cents...

1. Having been in SA and encountered hundreds of sex addicts I would venture to say that you certainly do NOT sound like a sex addict. (You haven't described any extreme sexual behaviors, or that you took any major risks to satisfy your craving or that your life has become totally unmanageable due to your struggle).

2. Sexual immorality has been around for a long time as you say BUT
a) it hasn't been so prevalent to the epidemic proportions that it can found today (more and more studies are finding that the internet/social media in general are becoming dangers to society of epidemic proportions and that's without the sexual/lust fantasy component) and
b) a proven solution for addiction was not developed until recently. 85 years ago a severe addict/alcoholic was considered "hopeless" with no successful treatment available. Today, millions of them have been able to recover.

Bottom line, I truly hope your struggle decreases and you live a meaningful and happy life. Be grateful that you don't have it so difficult but this IS a serious addiction for some (affecting a higher percentage of people than it did 25 years ago). Even for many non-addicts the struggle/habit can be pretty severe/chronic that it requires a serious commitment of time, energy, support and tools in order to overcome it and/or to keep it at bay for the long haul. So let's daven together for the greater GYE community that Hashem give strength to all those who seek His help and to open the hearts and minds of all those that are still blindsided by this struggle and have not yet begun their journey of recovery.

mzl wrote on 26 Jun 2018 10:02:

Spoiler Alert:

I was saying that he'a an artist that everyone would appreciate, so it's sad that he has to be relegated to the sex addiction world.

Even if you are an addict that is not something to be upset about. The important question is whether you enjoy the phone calls.

So every months, I find a need to write and come here to vent… and it’s just about that time again.

Let me set the scene.

It’s been 7 weeks since my last slip up. Yesterday, I had a first date with someone, about whom I had heard really good things about and was really hopeful that this might be the one (*eye roll*). The turned out to be a total disaster. (Well I made sure the date went well and that she had a good time - she really wanted to go out again, but it was super obvious she had some major personal and family issues), so I ended it immediately.

Today, I was reliving the horrors of the day before, and also had a long conversation about other dates that didn’t work out.

Needless to say, not the most motivating day.

So after a long day, night seder, mincha/maariv, etc, I come home, in a funk, and check the news to see what crazy thing is going on today. Recently the news has been super “adult”. And today was no different. The pictures, the gossip, and the other bs that comes along with it. Two clicks later, and you already know what’s going to happen. There is no point trying to fight it – best to just get it over with, have yourself a pity party, go to sleep and try to not have a disaster of a day tomorrow.

A few weeks ago, I was reading an article by a Rabbi from somewhere random and he was talking about teenagers/young adults who are constantly surrounded by adult material and have no healthy outlet for their drives. That really got me thinking. I have been trying to avoid coming to GYE because every time, the same few people would keep telling me that I have a sex addiction and that I should seek serious help and that marriage won’t solve any of my issues and that I’m screwed – well you get the idea.

Before I go further – I recognize that Sex Addiction is a serious thing and many people here are struggling with it – I am not here to minimize them or the hell they have to go through every day just to make it to tomorrow. I am talking about my experience and mindset alone.

So I was thinking – the Rabbi’s point was that a sexual drive is healthy. It’s not something we want to smoosh out of people. It’s something that one has to constantly work on harnessing and using in the proper way. Sexual immorality has been around since the dawn of time. Literally. The oldest profession is, after all, prostitution. And it has always been a struggle. Look through the Torah – it’s a theme we see over and over again.

But all of the sudden – in the year 2018 – it’s an epidemic. We are all “sex addicts” apparently. We all need major therapy and need to be locked in cages. (excuse the hyperbole)

I have come to realize that this is not true.

DISCLAIMER: AS I SAID ABOVE – THIS IS MY UNIQUE THOUGHT PROCESS ABOUT ME AND THE STUFF I HAVE TO DEAL WITH INSIDE MY HEAD ON A DAY TO DAY BASIS. THIS IS NOT NECESSARILY APPLY TO EVERYONE HERE. EVERYONE HERE HAS THEIR OWN CROSSES TO BEAR AND THEIR OWN UNDERSTANDING OF THEIR OWN SITUATIONS.

I know certain truths about myself.

I am selfless to an unhealthy level. This is not a good thing. It sucks. I am someone who only knows how to give and not how to take. A healthy person has a balance of both. Me – not so much.

I have always had a third person view of myself and everyone around – the way my mind works is that it is always as if I am watching and analyzing myself as well as others. As such, I have become really good at understanding people, their mindsets, their weaknesses and strengths. Again – this is not a good thing. I can never live in the moment. I am never present in the moment – I am always observing a shell that is “me” trying to stay afloat with in the moment.

I am way too smart for my own good. Everyone knows the expression “ignorance is bliss”. My life is the opposite of that.

How this all plays in to it:

So being the smart guy who was always too mature and serious to have fun, relax and grow, along with not being able to just have fun for ‘me’, I sunk into a deep and constant dark state of loneness with was accompanied by anxiety and depression.

We all know the jewish concept of “ezer kinegdo” – that every person is one half of a whole. And finding that other half is the journey. Without that other half – we each have a void.

So great – I’m 13 and I’m already longing for my other half. Someone to complete me. Someone I could love and give to. Someone who might be able to provide something that I would be receptive of receiving. And that was obviously not an option then. Throw in some Rabbeim who had no interest in dealing with me, parents who were emotionally and supportively absent (not financially – we were good in that regard, I mean supportive on a personal level) – and the void grew more and more every day. A bad friend introduced me to some adult material and there it was – something to numb the void for a little while.

Since then – there has been ups and down. It’s usually a cycle – 2 to 4 months, I am able to steer clear of the portion of my brain that want to fantasize and pump some dopamine into my blood stream. Then the need for closeness, love and completion hits. And then I do some stuff I’m not too proud of. And then the cycle repeats.

The hardest part of the cycle is accepting that slip and getting back up. Every time there is the same hope that this will be the last one. That maybe tomorrow or the next day I might meet the one who will balance me out.

Queue the “marriage won’t solve your sex addiction problems” people with all their wisdom and knowledge.

I don’t care about sex. That’s not what I look to get out of marriage. You’re right – if a person is marrying just to get themselves a muttar sex toy – they are going to run in to problems fast.

 I am looking for something much different in a spouse. I am looking to give my time, attention and devotion to someone and getting love and closeness in return.

Yes, yes – marriage isn’t a cake walk, there are ups and downs. There are fights. There is adjustment. That’s all part of process of that love and closeness.

Point is – I think it’s important for me to understand that tonight probably won’t be the last time I feel like crap and slip up unless, by the grace of God, some miracle happens and I finally meet that person. And understanding that if that doesn’t happen and I end of here in another 7 weeks, it’s OK. We aren’t made perfect. We are made to mess up and then learn and grow from our mistakes.

Tomorrow – I shouldn’t wake up and feel like crap. I should wake up knowing that I have a fresh start. A new day. A new chance to turn the page. A new chance to grow. A new chance to learn. A new hope that maybe this is it, maybe this time, it’s the last time.

Things are BH progressing nicely Im staying clean on a stricter level than before my fall so i have removed more lust from the equation , I am making phone calls everyday , and I am putting in extra effort to treat my wife the correct way .

I am a feeling a little resentment that Im doing these calls , not that its not nice to speak to a warm ,caring ,understanding, person , it's just that it makes me question myself -is there something wrong with me ? am I really such an addict that I have to be accountable to someone else ? etc
Regardless I will press ahead because I know it will help reach the ultimate goal which I want very much to reach

thank you