I think that's it.

I don't think Hashem assurs destroying the seed after you are basically ready to explode.

Regarding speech and thought the Mesillas Yesharim explains it well. It's clear why speech is different than thought, which is why they are addressed differently.

It's very telling that the chachamim were very upset about obscene speech, and all they could come up with as a source was navi. No chumash. That's important.

Also definitive regarding thoughts is that Shlomo hamelech called it an abomination of G-d. That gives me something to go after. Why doesn't Hashem like abominations?

I am starting to see that the problem with getting aroused is that it's not assur but Hashem punishes people for doing it in certain cases. Like what they say about obscene speech.

It's really bad because it's not assur. In some cases we use to Hashem's advantage. How many people here got married because they are sex addicts? And then before you know it's not to Hashem's advantage any more.

I can believe that Hashem watches my thoughts because when I think other sorts of thoughts I get whacked. Like when I think I'd like to donate money and then change my mind, punctually I get socked with some monetary loss.

But I have some difficulty accepting that Hashem expects me to not think about sex because it bothers him personally with no loss to me. I grew up like a goy and became frum in
my thirties. Deep down I'm a sadist, I like hurting women in my imagination. Why am I zoche that the master of the universe should intently listen to my thoughts?

I am a true yid because I managed to piss off the barons of sexual addiction recovery. Don't speak truth to power. Like Avraham avinu, he was on one side and everyone else was on the other side.

I put my email in my signature because I see that most people are not comfortable posting on the site. Since I came here to connect with other addicts I think I have to force myself to have private communications. And to check my email ...

I was thinking that the yetzer hara of pornography is qualitatively different than the yetzer to say loshon hara. It's good to compare and contrast them because the yetzer hara for loshon hara was only addressed thoroughly in recent times, namely by the Chofetz Chaim zt"l.

They are similar in the sense that they are tough and require constant reflection or action. They are qualitatively different in that the essence of the yetzer of the addict is I-can't-resist-because-I-like-it-a-lot-and-this-indicates-I-don't-desire-yiddishkeit-therefore-I-am-to-be-shunned. It's a desire that directly attacks and undermines our desire to be frum people. Yiddishkeit and p*** are two completely inconsistent things.

In a way it's good news because it means Hashem thinks we are ready to face the question of why we want to be Jews. Can we do better than "nice people are Jewish?"

Hi the aa big book says somewhere that helping other addicts helps "when all other methods fail"
with that in mind I'm starting this thread it'll be my take on the steps 
*disclaimer* read at youryour own risk bearing in mind 1 I'm writiwriting this primarily to try to keep my hands out of my pants 2 I'm not sober as of when I'm writing this

enjoy 
btw I'm using the gye app which has some funny glirglitches so if you see funny double writing just laugh and thank God you're not an alcoholic

Markz wrote on 31 Jul 2018 13:15:

I think Rav Miller is 100% right that one should not be open hearted with his spouse (or anybody) for the simple reason that honesty doesn't exist as commonly understood. This concept works for everyone, whether you are an addict, bipolar, depressed, anxious, schizophrenic or whether you are convinced that you are normal.

I think the thing that Dov is referring to in that post is that Torah in general is just another shovel to dig with for someone who's completely deluded that he has no choice but to act out. So if you find vort X you'll spin it, color it, magnify it, minimize it, disqualify it, etc until it's what you need it to be.

What happened in 2016? Why did I fell after 90 and plus days?
In summer 2016 I dedicated my whole time to fight the addiction.
I read a lot of Torah, prayed, did not work, did not stressed.
My task was conquer the addiction. I was in quarantine. In norantine better ...
Curing my disease was the only focus.
Yes I helped it with exercise, healthy meals, not consuming TV, music, etc.

But I remember that after hitting the mark. After daily prayers, stress, having acquired a fear of Hashem like never before (I consumed information that gave me fear). I remember the world was on chaos. Wars looming here and there. My parents recently divorced, my two grandmothers died one after the other, I lost a lot of money. All of the things that never happened me before, nor expected. (Well my grandma yes, but not so suddenly, joined with the other grandma, just when my mother got divorced, and I lost my job).

Boy If I had fear.

And 90 days past. (past 100 I think).
Anyway.
The mark was reached. And suddenly, even though yatzer hara kept pushing with non proper things on youtube, where I only had kosher history views. Where did they came from?
I fell. But I fell deeply because I did not change my life.

Yes. After 90 days, I resisted. And I conquered with the help of Hashem.
But all my resources were out to fight the battle. Nobody stayed home, building the new fortress, the new hope, the new life.
Nothing was left after the fight. So naturally, after the 90 day mark, I burnt all my ships.
It took hatzer hara a few images, a little bit of stress here and there. And that was it.

I forgot to create a new life.

So BH this time. After the 90 days, I do not only come with the reign protected but empty inside. But in the meantime, a new holy purposely new life is built during the fight, that does not burn all soldiers after 90 days. An endless source of healthy soldiers, able to fight, protect and win. I do not stop doing certain habits, but I get all that energy to do others constructive. Like building a family, parnassa, do what I think I am born to do, and Torah life. This time, this is not a siege, this a construction of a new kingdom. A kingdom that never stops doing what is right, that has all the peaces moving for its porpoise, its role. A happy, goal oriented, organised, purposely, lively, and holy kingdom.

ManWhoStumbles wrote on 31 Jul 2018 02:30:

Here again your main focus on not wanting to continue doing this behavior is mainly to avoid feeling guilty. If you can redirect your focus solely on improving your quality of life, it will allow you to recover.

All lust addicts use lust as a form of escape from facing life. Some find that recovery from lust is not enough because they have other serious compulsive behaviors that they drown themselves in for the purpose of escaping life, like playing games for hours on end. If you find that your life is unmanageable as a result of your compulsiveness to  playing games or other compulsive "time wasters" then I urge you to look into UA - www.underearnersanonymous.org - it's for addicts that are wasting way too much time (through various time wasters) and not living up to their potential but yet they cannot stop.

Wishing you much Hatzlacha in all areas of your life.

ManWhoStumbles wrote on 27 Jul 2018 23:34:

Hi ManWhoStumbles,

I am truly sorry for your pain and struggles and I commend you for reaching out for help. 
What I've learned from the 12 step program and what has kept me sober for almost 2 years is that I could not get any recovery from this struggle/addiction/obsession until I removed 2 words from my thoughts - FEAR and GUILT. This obsession feeds itself on those feelings and the 12 steps teaches that one will never overcome his addiction and live a healthy life until a mindful shift is made, one where FEAR and GUILT don't come into play. Our addiction that we struggled with so badly is a disease. We are not bad people trying to become good, we are SICK people trying to become WELL. 
The vast majority of what you wrote illustrates the exact problem with your recovery path. It's full of FEAR and GUILT as I've indicated above.
In order to recover I needed to focus on working a program for the sole reason that acting out and running after lust simply made my life miserable and unmanageable. I wanted to be able to live and being a slave to my lust obsession was not living. That's it.
If your life has become unmanageable because of your lust obsession I welcome the opportunity to discuss with you a plan for recovery that will set you free.

Feel free to reach out and may Hashem give you the courage and strength to take the necessary path towards true recovery. May you soon be able to proudly change your name to "ManWhoStumbled".

G4L

The white book dedicates several pages for the definition/understandin' of an addict.

mzl. Or maybe I should better say not-mzl :] I used to think back when I was regularly mzl that it would be impossible for me to stop completely and that I will necessarily fall even if try to stop. And that's exactly what happened. Every time. When I got to gye that view changed. So maybe that's why the conditioning is working for me.so if a person can reach this state of mind-he can probably be called cured.. at least according to your description of an addict. (I would describe it a bit differently though)

codnoy-for sure! (you saw what I meant by cured in the first part here). And btw. What would you say is the right way to describe an addict?

JoyOfLife-thank you! I am happy someone can benefit from my personal struggles, I wish you success and the happiness and clarity that comes with staying sober. Its absolutely worth the journey, and as you can see-absolutely possible.
and the zoro thing brings back some memories :D

Dears fellows,

Back in 2016 I did the 90 days chart with you guys.
I remember I was totally lost. Having tried everything I just found this website.
The pdf was the truth that I had been looking for a long time.
It is all about following gye seriously.
What is the problem? The problem is that we are too proud to admit we have a problem.
We do not want to be labeled ill. Boy, number one step. I am ill, and it is serious.

Second. Falling. Did I do the 90 days straight? No. I fell, and I fell and I fell. And sadly my parents divorced, my two grandma died the same year. Hashem gave a a hint. Enough. I hope now you get scared.
And I did.

After 60 days, while mourning my first grandma, I fell.
Then my second grandma died (both in their good late years, yet sad anyway).

And then the 90 days were achieved while mourning my grandma.

I remember that I fell so many times before, that I tried everything, taphsic, forums, read mails...

What was the winner combination for me?
1. I remember I promised that if I fail, I would donate 180 euros to gye. 90 + 90. I did. (with its share ).
2. I prayed everyday tehillim. All book.
3. My eyes were shut. Yes, in summer, in a hot country, where modesty is nonexistent among goy. My eyes were shut. Looking to the floor in the street. Asking forgiveness when I slipped slightly.
I remember a shiur that said the S--an enters through the eyes. If you do not look it can not enter.
I assure you it is true. I tried it guys. True. You do not look, and it really does not bother you any more.
Honestly, just do not look. Nothing. And if you do, ask forgiveness right away. And look away right away.
4. The forums were awesome, because you guys were really honest and helping.

What am I doing here then?

Well, after that spring / summer 90 and plus days, I fell again. My addiction though was less severe. I avoided porn videos totally. So now I fall in a slightly less retorted manner.

I want to marry  (first find the one), but I am addicted. And I have to quit forever.
I can not afford to be ill for my future wife or even candidate, and Hashem just can not give me sheffa if I am not a vessel.

So here I am again. 2018. With your help. We must kill the evil forever and bring the Moschiach.
And what a better way to start than with our addictions.

Dov wrote on 15 Nov 2013 12:00:

growup wrote on 29 Jul 2018 14:00:

No, it is not a siman at all. It proves nothin' of the kind whether you get there or not.

You're %100 right. I meant that 90 days is a goal of mine which I would really like to accomplish. FYI the reason why they picked 90 days is stated on the 90 day chart and I quote :Take the leap of faith and start your 90 days challenge!It's not all or nothing. Just do your best and track your days. 

Scientific studies show it takes about 90 days to change the neuron pathways in the brain created by addictive behaviors. Members of the 12-Step groups are given a "red" recovery chip when they reach 90 days. We also find the idea of 90 in Chazal. The Halacha is, that if one is not sure if he said "v'sen tal u'matar", he must repeat the Shmoneh Esrei. However after 30 days, one no longer needs to repeat Shmoneh Esrei when in doubt, because we assume that his mind has already gotten used to saying it. 30 days is 90 Shmoneh Esreis! Chazal knew that it takes 90 times of doing something to get the mind used to it. The Hebrew letter “Tzadik” – which symbolizes a Tzadik who is pure, also equals 90 in Gematria.

Our sages have said: "There is a small organ in a man, if one feeds it - it is hungry, if one starves it - it is satiated". The most difficult days are in the beginning. It will gradually get better. 

Hitting the 90 day mark in of itself is nothing. Its the quality of my life which bh will get better and 90 is one of the means to improving my joy of life. Thanks for giving me your feedback - interaction with others that understand this issue is immensely helpful so thank you