Anonymous1051 wrote on 23 Sep 2018 05:55:

Welcome,

It should be with Hatzlocha.

How about starting your own thread and keeping us posted on your journey?

Hi Shnitzel and kugel,
I'm an 18 year old bochur, ive been struggling since I was 16.
I only came to the realization that I have an issue around a half year ago.

Until a half year ago i used to act out at least once sometimes twice a day. It became רגיל to the point where I didn't see anything wrong with what I was doing.

Only around a half year ago I started taking action to try and regain control of my life.

I joined GYE last week. Until then I've been trying to push myself to stay clean for as long as possible. But I didn't have any of the motivational tools that GYE provides.

My longest streak was 15 days consecutively (but I came close to my record multiple times, once it was 13 days, or 11).

The truth is, I've come across GYE in the past, but i felt that it's only for real addicts, and that "if I really want to, I could stop".

After Yom Kippur though, I decided enough is enough. I need help, and GYE is that resource.

Since I joined GYE, I've had less of a cheishek to act out. I don't know how long it will last me, but im hoping for the best!

May we all be zoche to much סיעתא דשמיא to prevail in this fight!

Hatzlacha to all!

Amazing...good luck!

I think they are all important goals but also very different. In general I think it's a bad idea to be okay with actively checking out girls, but a lot of the time these things are automatic and dealing with these automatic reactions is a separate struggle to quitting the conscious behaviors you talk about, imho it's a much higher level. So getting your conscious habits under control should come first and that seems how you want to go about it anyway. Deal with the unconscious ones later is what I would say. 

However you CAN choose to limit what you read, and that is a conscious decision, and the downward spiral from a news story to other dark places on the internet is a reliable pitfall, so letting yourself enjoy "titillating news stories" I think is a recipe for disaster (again just my opinion!). What you might think is curiosity, is your brain leading you to the habits you want to avoid, and if you want to get to 90 enough it requires making the sacrifices that you don't necessarily want to make, but making them is powerful and healing, it's regaining some control.

As for the 90 day thing. There's nothing magical about 90 days other than, if you're an addict (not a bad thing just a fact), you can't get there on willpower alone, so it means making real practical changes to improve your life and make it what you want it to be. So I wouldn't worry about the psychological implications of not going "cold-turkey" I don't think that's how it works. And if you go 90 days without those three (or four) things, that is absolutely NOT wasting your time, that is an amazing improvement and implementation of the hirhur teshuvo. 

Hatzlocho robbo thistimeiwillwin may Hashem continue to bless you with clean days

If you read my thread "My Story and G-d Bless GYE" in balei batim forum, you will see how I moved from masturbation to coming close to masturbation to causing erections by thoughts to BH stopping completely any form of arousal. Therapists who deal with those of us who are not addicts are big believers in a step by step approach. Some even allow scheduled acting out windows. Your system will iyh work as long as the eventual goal is to come completely clean.

stillgoing wrote on 21 Sep 2018 05:32:

Because the people not receiving you well are being extremely silly. A Jew is from the other side, he stands in the face of adversity and changes the bad world around them instead of the other way around.

I don't think that "It's comical to refrain from telling a straigh sex addict about our attraction to men."​
If I'm not going to be "well received" then why do you say that I "really need to start sharing on the forum​"

There are some studies that claim that keeping the brain on a constant low state of arousal is even worse than acting out in terms of addiction. I cannot verify this statement.

In my opinion, it would depend very much on what you are doing. If you are generally avoiding triggers, however you are not making that your focus, and not going to worry if you look on the street or read occasionally an article, then that is a good way to start, and keep adding more to your list. On the other hand, if you are going to be constantly looking for lust, then it will not help you in the long run.
Hatzlocha Rabba!

So today a good chaver from here, a bochur who BH is doing well, took the plunge and gave up his phone with internet access. Now he only has a kosher phone. As a reaction, I would like to share some thoughts on the matter and would appreciate responses.

Recently I spoke with TAG of Flatbush. They have a standard called Machane Kadosh, which is almost 100% foolproof. It involves cutting out many sites and removing browsers, etc. However they still beg everyone to switch to kosher phones. Why? They claim that every day new applications, updates, upgrades, etc., enter the market creating new loopholes. Investing thousands of dollars, Machane Kadosh has hired cutting edge tech savvy technicians who watch like hawks for all new developments and then rectify whatever can be fixed. However they cannot guarantee perfection. Therefore they urge everyone to use as a phone, a non internet device. Why have at your fingertips a 24/6 nisayon? For better or for worse, we keep our phones with us all the time. How long does it take on a day where one feels down, lonely, bored, curious, or slightly triggered to take a smartphone into the bathroom, or some other private place to get that "quick fix"? For those who need internet access out of their office, TAG suggests having a tablet (or smartphone set up as per Machane Kadosh standards - which is still the gold standard) in addition to their kosher phone, and to train themselves to use the internet device only when necessary - not for their basic (and nowadays constant) communication. An obvious side benefit of this is that one's phone is l'chatchila usable by his/her children.

Most friends who have switched to kosher phones claim that within a month or two of the switch they came to the realization that they really never needed the constant access. They found that the lines between necessity, convenience, and even relaxation/entertainment had become blurred. Even what they had been convinced they needed, they realized was exaggerated. They also claim that their quality of life was enhanced. They feel they had been addicted to technology (even the kosher stuff) and now saw there is a beautiful life without the constant "mental stimulation" the smartphone offered. 

Which brings us to the question. Chazal tell us that if one chooses to walk where there is a lack of tznius when there is another route (darka achrina) that is clean, he Is called a rasha even if he keeps his eyes closed. So why is our scenario different? If one is able (and yes, I understand there are some who are unable) to avoid the smartphone and can use another route - the kosher phone, then even if he is careful and keeps his eyes off the "bad stuff" (which includes a lot more than just pornography - many "pareve" sites contain images that are definitely assur to look at), how would Chazal view him? Chalila, I am not trying to pass judgement or be mekatreg on any yid, I am just asking.

There are some people who unfortunately are so addicted that if given only a kosher phone, they will out of desperation purchase an internet phone at Walmart, or find an internet café, or some other outlet to quench their insatiable thirst. However for the vast majority of people, removing the constant nisayon has proven to be very helpful. Yes, some of us with kosher phones still slip and fall from time to time, but don't we all agree that falling once every few weeks or months is incomparable to falling every few days or worse?

Please respond.

stillgoing wrote on 20 Sep 2018 22:36:

The behavior of rejecting you because your desires are too low for me is to be avoided at all costs by someone who wishes to get over his addiction. Therefore if you are a weirdo and desire to have sex with meerkats you benefit everybody by being here, right in the face of the idiots that made you feel not well received.

mzl wrote on 20 Sep 2018 18:35:

If they're not well received, then it's not b.*.

aryehdovid85 wrote on 18 Sep 2018 15:49:

It's a bad idea. You really need to start sharing on the forum but without being graphic and without revealing personally identifying details. It's comical to refrain from telling a straigh sex addict about our attraction to men. Think about that.

This happens in in-person meetings too, sex addicts are not well received among alcoholics, and it's b.s.

ysftw wrote on 20 Sep 2018 11:29:

I'm happy that you found something that works.

Shnitzel and kugel wrote on 18 Sep 2018 14:10:

That's not addiction. A lifetime nazir doesn't constantly do tshuva for being an alcoholic. He keeps his neder instead. A 30-day nazir could do tshuva on yom kippur though. That would make sense. Maybe you are in the second category.

I've been trying to reach this milestone for about 4 years now, and not once did I make it (you can dig up previous comments I've made in this forum that go back about that long). 

I wanted to very simply explain how I made it here, and why I believe 90 is an important milestone.

Am I no longer an addict? No I'm still an addict. Why is 90 important? For one reason only, you can't get here on willpower alone, getting to 90 means that you've had to reorganize your whole system for dealing with this issue. So how is that done?

1. I realized that being addicted to porn does not make me a deviant or a creep, it's just something my brain has got hooked onto and that's a fact. 
2. Because I'm an addict willpower can only last so long before not working anymore, the addiction is a marathon runner whilst willpower is a sprinter, and therefore if I rely on willpower in any sense I would have not got to 90.
3. Therefore all solutions involving willpower were useless, it took my a long time to realize this. But in that category I include 1) sets of beliefs 2) trying to get certain habits up and running 3) mantras. I always believed I was one realization short of the discovery that would change my life forever, and the belief I could keep in my head at all times that would suddenly make me free of porn. Wrong. 
4. Once I realized that I was now on the path to success. If the solution is not internal, it must be external. If I will always want to look at porn eventually, and I want to make sure that that doesn't happen, then I need to make sure that I deal with my external access to porn, no matter what it takes. 
5. Therefore every possible device that gives me access to the internet that is in my power to control is either heavily filtered (really heavily...no online videos work, youtube is blocked OBVIOUSLY certain "gateway" websites I used to use are blocked, social media is blocked) or has no ability to access the internet whatsoever. In a way, I hacked my own brain, I knew how, if I had to get to porn I would, and because I'm an addict at some point my brain always thinks it has to get to porn, and I closed off all of those options. 
6. Short of living tech free however, there are always loopholes, and for those loopholes I used the Taphsic method, I tried this many times before but it never worked. This was because a) I wasn't doing it correctly b) I was using in place of filters. It's not strong enough to replace filters, seeing tempting images is stronger in the moment than the threat of punishment, but it is strong enough to deal with loopholes if you use it correctly. 
7. Here's how I use it, for every single possible loophole I find I put it into the shavuah- I'm in a house with a TV set? So I wont use that set unless I'm not in yichud. I don't even allow myself to do an internet search for how to disable my filters etc. And then I make sure that the activity before the easy knas is possible to do but very annoying to have to do, and that the heavy knas is something I will be able to make myself do but would be terrified to do. 
8. Obviously I've only reached 90 days and am not "cured" but this is the first time it's happened and I have to thank GYE for showing me the tools I've listed above to get me here. 
9. One other thing is that this method did fail me once, I did have a fall whilst using this system just over 90 days ago, however it was because I had not got the Taphsic shavuah at the correct balance point, and covering all the options, the fall exposed a set of holes which I have no covered, and hence I am here. So even when you fall, it's insight to tweaking the method to getting it just right, to carry you all the way, it's not like you have to search for a totally new approach. 
10. I try to learn not just from what makes me fall but what makes other people fall too and to factor that in as soon as it comes to my attention. 

I hope in some way that was useful to somebody, all comments criticisms, feedback and questions are welcome

Shnitzel and kugel wrote on 09 Sep 2018 03:25:

Wow wow wow!!!
What a gr8 post. it's inspiring for me to see your obvious work you put in to reach your goal. Hashem should give you koiach to reach your next goal and the one after... until this world finally reaches the ultimate goal 
במהרה בימינו