Hi,

I am a grateful recovering sexoholic, I am sober for 10 month now with god’s help. I am going through a lot of hardships, my sister is in a mental hospital for 2 weeks now and she drained all my energy (she is not bad she is sick just like I am in a different form), I am in pain and I risked my sobriety (my life) to support her. I haven’t had the opportunity to go to a therapist, I still think that hugging women could save me to tell you how sick I am. I have intense emotional pain and I am extremely vulnerable and lonely. It’s one of those nights where I want to scream where are you god? Where is your heart? Pain is my lot tonight. I had a dream and suddenly some sort of prostitute came and tried to entice me, I almost fell for it and she jumped on me, I told her to leave and cried out Hashem help me and the dream dismantled. God damn it maybe I should be in this hospital with my sister. If I don’t stay sober I am going to hurt myself and eventually kill myself. One of my MO’s is to fantasize about and ask women to dominate me and humiliate me which is very dangerous and once it’s finished I get out of this folly and realize how low this addiction brings me and I am disgusted with myself and want to kill my self. Shabbat is great, sometimes but tonight for me it means I can’t reach out to fellow addicts who are not available and it puts my life at risk. I still want to believe that god can save me, and he was here for me in the past but I also want to ask him why aren’t you showing mercy to one of your children, your will not mine be done and yes I know already that I can’t perceive or understand your will, your Thora tell us to love another like oneself I would not wish that even to someone I hate, maybe just for tonight you could put aside your wonderful and secret plan to redeem the world of chaos you forced me in and redeem me out of my pain and sickness, thanks for letting me share. I love you brothers keep it strong 

Been reading workinguy's post. Impressions so far:

1. He's not an addict
2. He doesn't realize that CBT can help someone who's not an addict but not an addict
3. He doesn't realize that addiction is a real disease that cannot be addressed with temporary measures
4. Is not bipolar and doesn't seem to know much about depression
5. He is articulate
6. He is strongly motivated in life by his role of expert who advises others on addiction issues
7. Is likely threatened by the fact that mzl is now on the forum

Workingguy doesn't realize that when someone says they have a masturbation problem and they explicitly request CBT from GYE users they are being too rigid not helping themselves. They need to be redirected.

Workingguy wrote on 19 Oct 2018 20:02:

Nope, sorry, still not convinced.

But I think you are a dangerous guy who thinks that ideas are correct if and only if they come from certain people.

I will try to read your posts and see if I can figure out how you work. Maybe that big 800 number you are showing off means something really impressive, and maybe it doesn't ...

mzl wrote on 18 Oct 2018 00:58:

 Do me a favor; you don’t want to start having a match with me about מאמרי חזל. כשם שמצוה לומר דבר הנשמע כך מצצה שלא לומר....

And met me ask you.....did you save him by not standing by or did you alienate him and push him away? You didn’t save him so your assessment was wrong.

You’ve argues with everyone on this forum; how about sitting back with a little humility and listening to people with more experience and success with you?

And I did CBT and am well versed, as are many people here. I’ve written about it here; so have others. Markz might be able to find it. 

But seriously, chill out. 

Dov wrote on 19 Oct 2018 16:24:

II am a full-blown addict, and recovery is nu-nu.

I remember in the past I was scared of being an addict. I would deny it to the end.

Im probably not an addict even. At best a mediocre one.

These days Im brave and I consider myself an addict. I find that its safer to be a recovering addict that not an addict with a problem. "Becoming an addict" has enabled to me to take overcoming my problem more seriously and I am now #67 days clean. B"h I decided that I may need a bit more support than other ppl in these areas. B"h I decided that I will go out of my comfort zone to solve my issues. B"h I am on the way to "recovery."

Deciding that I am not in control has allowed me to use tools to effectively have the outcome I wanted. Essentially putting me back in control, albeit, without the burden of having to "control" it.

Anyway...

I get inspired from your posts and your sincere resolve in working through this complicated issue.

Hatzlacha!

Not that it's relevant to you, but I'm like you, too. My addiction is mediocre and my recovery is mediocre. And that's a thing to be faced and accepted, and I do.

I'm so grateful for Hashem's gift to me of the ability to face and accept that. For without it, I'd feel superior to others and it'd all collapse eventually, c"v.

I think in order to be a good citizen I have to try to get back on the horse, even though it may be frustrating and I may be end up exactly in the same place.

I am a mediocre sex addict, let's face it ...

gyehelp2017 wrote on 18 Oct 2018 19:01:

I couldn't agree more.

But I also think that if you really want to help someone and you see him banging his head against a wall and you don't tell him what he's doing wrong (even just point him to the Handbook, for crying out loud) then you are not doing what you wrote above.

Hope it's finally clear.

mzl wrote on 18 Oct 2018 00:58:

Dear MZL,
All of us around here at GYE have one thing in common and one thing only, and that is "doing whatever it takes to stay clean and keep away from porn, masturbation etc.", now being right or wrong is totally irreverent and not up for discussion here.
Now of course you 'may' be right, but if your approach or mindset does not work for someone else then why bother the argument. If we were to always only do whats right then we would have never been addicted to what we were/are in the first place, our goal here is not to fix each other rather it is to help each other - each in their own way. And what worked for me does not necessarily work for someone else. Now personally I was in touch with lots of people and I was really amazed to see that every one has their own way to stay clean. (to be honest some ideas that people shared with me sounded a little off to me), but if that is what works for them (even if only a little bit) then that's the best for them and that's what they should be doing. so mocking or downgrading someone else approach - even if in your eyes he is totally wrong -  goes against all that we believe in and looking for around here.
I hope my point is clear, all the best!

i-man wrote on 17 Oct 2018 22:59:

I didn't say it's a contradiction. It's what he wants. Even if it were a contradiction, he'a free to explore that approach anyway. I was just making sure that CBT is not going to address his masturbation directly. I think the clarification is warranted, considering that this forum doesn't treat depression and anxiety, which is what CBT can treat successfully.

Workingguy wrote on 17 Oct 2018 23:36:

The mitzva of don't stand by the blood of your brother made it an obligatory comment before your imaginary reasoning could have kicked in.

CBT alone doesn't help addicts. That much I know. And GYE is not well versed in CBT, I know that as well.

Workingguy wrote on 17 Oct 2018 23:36:

As per the forum rules:
10.) We encourage everyone to share what works for them, or how they view recovery. We ask, however, that no member "put down" or "prove wrong" or "discredit" any other approaches to recovery that may be working for other members. For example, the 12-Step program works well for many members of our community. We have had to block members in the past who repeatedly tried to discredit the 12-Step method on our forum, causing a lot of machlokes and confusion. It is Ok to ask questions, but it is not Ok to continually insist on discrediting any method that works for others.

motcha1234 wrote on 17 Oct 2018 21:27:

Please don’t listen to mzl; he has a certain way of looking at things and saying things that doesn’t represent what other people here think or feel, or think should be said.

We’re not here to judge what’s rational or not; only to offer to help and share what worked for us. 

From a Jewish perspective, Onaas Devarim- the prohibition against saying things that cause someone pain- would have made that comment that he made prohibited.

mzl wrote on 17 Oct 2018 22:47:

Why is that a סתירא ? There is so much talk here about how living life is a way to combat lust  - Cbt sounds like a tool to "live life ".