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13 Jan 2019 21:32

EscapeArtist

I agree, if porn is once a week, & that's it, no reason to tell wife.
If one is addicted, even to cheeseburgers for that matter, it may eventually takes over his entire life, & be extremely difficult to establish any genuine relationship w/ anyone. I personally feel it's unfair to force a woman into that. I personally have at one point reached the point where I was always waiting to get away from my wife; pretending to listen while secretly dreaming about my next escape. Wasn't a good relationship; wasn't even a bad relationship; it wasn't a relationship. 
Yes, I know, not every woman can handle it. Perhaps consider speaking to a professional couples therapist first (or a Rav experienced with these matters) to see if there is any way to tell in a less harmful way. It is very difficult for one to make the decision himself, as he certainly has negius, both ways even.

Hatzlochoh either way!
Category: Break Free
13 Jan 2019 19:34

EscapeArtist

Hey everyone, I'm back; still (hic) sober...
Been working on nipping the lust in the bud; "surrendering it to g-d" as they say. Can't look at any woman for more than half a second, for fear that I'll enjoy it too much, & that'll be the "first drink" that'll send me back to the mud... I hope one day to normal out, but I think I have to be radical at the moment.
Friday night I was quite hesitant to be with my wife, afraid to awaken the lust. I ended up venturing forth & attempted it with just love, no lust. No focusing on anything that would "turn me on"; just on how much I love my wife (awww... no I'm way passed שנה ראשונה). Needless to say it was quite an enlightening experience; even she noticed the difference. My lust was not reawakened, thank g-d (though it did take much longer to climax...).
Still ain't easy. Had an event last מוצאי שבת, got a headache darting my eyes back & forth to avoid dwelling on any woman too long. wasn't perfect, I did a quick double take when I noticed a lady who has been a challenge for me in the past. When I saw her kids in shul after davening this Shabbos I knew to be on guard, & when she was in my peripheral I looked the other way w/o a peek.  Wasn't as hard as I expected it to be, so maybe I am making progress. (This must sound retarded to anyone who can't relate - this post is NOT for you!!!)
Got the Yeshiva dinner tonight... wish me luck!
13 Jan 2019 14:17

Gevura Shebyesod

Hakolhevel wrote on 10 Jan 2019 01:12:
From Rabbi Shais Taub.
addictionblog.org/spirit/what-does-the-serenity-prayer-mean/The Serenity Prayer & AA

Most people who know even just a little bit about addiction and alcoholism know about “those meetings” where people get together and all say the Serenity Prayer together and then say, “Hi, my name is ____ and I’m a ____.”

Original Serenity Prayer

The truth is that the Serenity prayer did not originate with the 12-Step movement.  Its most well-known version is attributed to the 20th century theologian and social commentator, Reinhold Niebuhr, but many — Niebuhr included — concede that the prayer has been around in various forms for centuries.  Interestingly, the prayer is not part of any religion’s liturgy and, as such, is truly a non-sectarian prayer.

Enough background.  What does the prayer mean?

What Does The Serenity Prayer Mean?

There are three parts to the Serenity Prayer.  The first asks for “the serenity to accept the things that can’t be changed;” the second asks for “the courage to change the things that can” be changed; and the third asks for “the wisdom to know the difference” between the things that can and cannot be changed.

In other words, we’re asking G-d for three things — serenity, courage, and wisdom.  Serenity has its time and place; courage has its time and place; and wisdom is the ability to know whether it’s a time and place for serenity or a time and place for courage.

For instance, being resigned to a situation that can and should be changed is not really serenity so much as complacency, while trying to change something that is just a fact of reality isn’t really courage so much as foolishness. Therefore, we don’t want to use serenity to deal with situations that really call for courage and we don’t want to use courage to deal with situations that really call for serenity.

Serenity Or Courage?

The problem is that self-deception, denial and our inherent prejudices make it hard for us to to tell these two kinds of situations apart.  Sometimes we trick ourselves into just accepting something that really is our responsibility to take care of because we are afraid of dealing with it. In that case, what we really need is courage — not serenity.  Other times, we are convinced that if we would just try harder, come one stronger, give things another chance, then we will be able to alter some aspect of the truth to be more to our liking.  We do this because in our perfectionist drive to control people, places and things, we believe that reality ought to be different than it is and therefore, we are sure, we just need more grit and gumption to see things through.  But what we really need is the ability to let go and let G-d.  We don’t need courage in that situation, but serenity.

So, we pray to our Higher Power to guide us in honestly assessing all situations so that we will come to the proper decision — serenity or courage.

Serenity Prayer Exercises

One general guideline that I have personally found helpful is the “me-you principle.”  If something needs to change, it needs to change in me, while if something about you seems to be my problem, then what I really need to do is realize that you are who you are right now and accept that truth.  It’s funny how it works out.  When I don’t waste my energy trying to change you, I seem to have a lot more energy left over to change myself and when I work on changing myself, I seem to have a lot less problems with you


הדא הוא דאמרן: ״אם אין דעת הבדלה מנין״

11 Jan 2019 18:42

Hakolhevel

From dov's preface to his most recent conference calls on derech yashar.

All the truth is in the Torah - and the tzadikim knew where to find it. But we addicts just couldn't get it from a sefer. We need an approach similar to 'Torah Shebal Peh' - a group of other recovering people who are actually putting these ideas intoaction in their own lives. As chaza"l say: "gedola shimusha yoser milimuda". Later, we often discover those same truths again in seforim which were waiting for us all along. This sefer is a perfect example of this and turns some common conceptions in avodas Hashem on their heads. It's not just another philosophical sefer that speaks only to the mind; Derech Emess shows us how to surrender desire in a realistic way and speaks to the heart.It bravely and squarely addresses inner motives, strengths and weaknesses in a positive way. "
11 Jan 2019 05:58

Hakolhevel

markz wrote on 08 May 2016 14:30:
To fight or Not to fight - That is the question:

Some captive women were redeemed and brought to Neharda'a. They were kept in the attic of Rav Amram the Chasid; the ladder was removed.

A beam of light reflected from one of the women. Rav Amram was seized with lust. He moved the ladder to ascend (normally, 10 people are needed to move it). As he was halfway up, he screamed 'there is a fire in Rav Amram's house!' (Kiddushin 81)

Rav Amram intended to teach his students with this, that debates and confrontation against the YH are not recommended in times of need, rather other tools should be used (Rada'l), e.g. calling a fellow GYE or Group call

:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!
*******************************************

Parshas Achrei - GYE Wrote:

Dear MosheF,

Please read the Ohr Hachayim Hakadosh on this page. It sure sounds to me like he's talking about lust addiction! He directly addresses the complete powerlessness that a person who is caught up in lust will experience. He suggests that the only way to succeed in this area is by completely avoiding visual and mental stimulation. (If the Ohr Hachayim had lived today where this solution is close to impossible - and where the entire world's sewage is available with the click of a mouse, who knows - he may have come up with a 12-Step program! :-).

But listen to this: The Ohr Hachayim also touches upon the core of the 12-Steps in this very piece. He writes that for those who are already caught up in lust (read: addicts) they cannot do it on their own, and that ONLY Hashem can ultimately save them from this powerful Yetzer Hara.

TRANSLATION IS INCLUDED HERE

:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!



Rabbi Avraham J. Twerski wrote: If one can, it is a segula to read this section at the kever and ask that in his zechus Hashem should help

I just learned the Gemara, and I right away thought of this point, and I said to myself, I wonder if anyone on gye brought this up? Quick forum search told me I'm not Christopher Columbus

Thanks markz for this great post.
Category: BEIS HAMEDRASH
11 Jan 2019 04:31

Markz

cordnoy wrote:
So, 38 to the P and 38 to the M.

Wrong group, I know.

There is a bit of pressure to write somethin' profound (or, at least, it should make sense) for post # 10,000, especially after my dear friends Mark and Gevura threw down the gauntlet.

Truth be told, 10,000, like 90 or 38, is simply a number. Does it really represent somethin' epic? It means that I waste quite a bit of time, almost ten posts per day. Yes, perhaps there are several that helped myself and perhaps there are even a few where others were helped, but the bulk of them I'm sure were just some joke or wisecrack. There were even those that were hurtful as well. It just means that I have been here for a considerable amount of time and I have not yet gotten frustrated enough to leave for good (more on that later).

​But let us circle back to the beginnin' of this post, and contrary to most of my posts, this one will be lengthy: the Mincha thread, one that I am proud of. Why? Because it made a difference in my day and seemingly in others as well. I am an expert in selfishness. I have been doin' things for myself for decades. Always: what makes me happy. That's how I work. So the thread worked for me. Icin' on the cake was that it worked for others as well.

Recovery was different though. And perhaps it is worthy to repeat here the steps I took. You know that I don't spend much time thinkin' about addict vs. non-addict. I don't spend much time thinkin' about anythin' at all. It wasn't always like that. I came to this site by accident, of sorts. Yes, there were several decades of filth and smut in my days, but I always stopped, at least for a week or two, or more. Recovery and lack thereof did not consume my life. I was fine with the pattern. Of course, yamim noraim (mostly), I'd cry and beg and resolve to sin no longer. Some years I even threw in the towel and made a deal with God that I'll do lots of good in other areas and let's just hide this issue in the closet. 

But eventually, there was a rock bottom of sorts. That, together with a push, encouragement, threat of exposure from a woman friend of the family (whom I must have been tryin' to seduce) put me on a course of action. And that action wasn't a snap of the fingers. And it wasn't without heartache and pain. I went 90 days sober (so to speak). I engaged a long distance therapist, a professional who is recommended by GYE. I joined SA in a city an hour away from me. I was there for about eight months. I went to a local therapist/specialist on and off for about two years. I got two sponsors, one Jewish, one not. I joined calls and eventually led calls. I have been workin' the steps in some way or another for several years. I read the big book, white book, action book and 12&12. I am on my sixth cycle. And I post as well, every once in a while. 

Talkin' to live people really does wonders. Posts are different when I know the poster and they know me. It makes it more real. (This is an important point to know for anyone who spends time on the forum.) 

GYE gave me the opportunity to personally meet many fine fellows. I will list them, for I thank each and every one of them for their friendship, advice, suggestions, criticisms, etc. 
Pidaini
Lizhensk
Big moish
Gibbor (need more)
Skeptical (although we need a better meet)
DD
Unanumun
Laasos
Still going
Zemmy
Jake
Innastruggle
Lavi
Pischoshelmachat
Fresh start
RGT
Kilochalu
Misgaber
SB

I was within a hundred feet from:
Gevura
Guard
Shlomo

I have had private and personal conversation with:
Grow strong
TZ
Dov
Real simcha
Godhelp
OTR
tzomah
ShmielZ
Shteiger
Yesod
shemirashabris
Dms123456789
Yesod
Workin'guy
Laughin'man
Serenity
MoB
MarkZ
Yidtryin'harder
Chullent kin'
Trouble
Belmont
mesayin (I think)
ShmuliK
Boropark yid
Israel61320
Watson
Mggmbs
YosefTH
Appearance

I have been in touch with:
Yiraishamaim
Maayan
NIC
Aryeh
Hashivalisassonyishechaimisgabecha
Shivisi
PeloniAlmoni
DuvidChaim
Eli
Lifnei
Lomed
Shtiebel
SIB14628
Joe
Singularity
NewActin'
MendelZ
Shmeichel
MBJ

Now, what I just did is fairly dangerous (and I really need to look this over again, for it was done at several sittin's), because I probably left out a bunch of fellows, and I do apologize, but I wrote this list for two reasons: 1. I wanted to display and demonstrate the power of GYE; it creates lastin' friendships, friend who deeply care about one another. Four years ago, I knew none of these fellows and now we are best of friends. 2. Perhaps a couple of them I have helped on their journey, but one thing is certain - each and every one of them helped me on mine. I learned humility from one, commitment from another. Mussar, calmness, faith, prayer, carin', devotion, thoughtfulness, diligence, humor, assertiveness, resolve, confidence and more - are just some of the things that I try to apply in my daily life, and for that, they need to be mentioned. If I left you out, you know it was just an oversight and I sincerely apologize (and i will include in the edit- I am gettin' rushed to hit submit), but I truly thank you for helpin' out a punk like me.

And I must confess that when a fellow emails, calls, texts, WhatsApps, skypes, bumps into me and says, "Cords, you really saved my life, you truly helped me today, this past year would have been impossible without you, I didn't get that massage because of your text" yes, it feels good, and my ego makes it feel even better, but it's you guys who deserve the credit. You, who set me straight to begin with, you, who showed me my flaws, you, who convinced me of my egotistical, self-centeredness, you, who paved the way for me, and you as well who gave me the opportunity to give back, to keep me honest, to constantly share life's struggles and mine in particular, so thank you.

So, in conclusion:

There might be ten thousand reasons to let you all go
There might be ten thousand reasons to just quit the show
About ten thousand reasons

If I had a highway, I would stay in my truck
If the coffee wasn't bitter, we'd be all out of luck
But you're givin' me ten thousand reasons
Givin' me ten thousand reasons

I bow down to pray
I try to make the worst seem better
Lord, show me the way
To cut through all this worn out leather
I've got ten thousand reasons to walk away
But baby, I just need one good one to stay

Posters stuck in a cycle, they look off and stare
It's like they've stopped breathin', but completely aware
'Cause you're givin' me ten thousand reasons
Givin' me ten thousand reasons

And if by mistake I say something that iI might even mean
It's hard to even fathom which parts you should believe
'Cause you're givin' me ten thousand reasons
Givin' me ten thousand reasons

Baby I'm bleedin', bleedin'
Can't you give me what I'm needin', needin'
Every heartbreak and fall and sickness makes it hard to keep the faith
But baby, I just need one good one
Good one, good one, good one

Baby, I just need one good one to stay, to stay, to stay.

And that good one is you.
Yes, you.

Someone cut your threads? Where did they go????
You need some moderation!
Category: Just Having Fun
10 Jan 2019 22:24

Thistimeillwin

Interesting question.  I asked a different question  few months ago:
guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/335694-Am-I-cheating 
whether not masturbating but not having zero-tolerance for 'soft'-triggers (looking and reading non-appropriate things which aren't porn) was cheating on the 90 day journey.  In the end, I believe my failure was that I was 'feeding the beast' here and there till he overpowered me.

This question is somewhat the opposite, and though we can't condone one's continuation of masturbation, maybe it is possible to weaken the urge for porn without weakening the urge to masturbate.  I would warn you, however, that though it may help for the porn addiction, it may backfire: you may get so used to masturbating without the porn that it's now too easy to relapse.

My vote: Cut both together; the lack of porn which you are so used to may lower the urge for masturbation.

By the way, 4-8 months is amazing, I think you will be able to do it!!
Category: Break Free
10 Jan 2019 20:33

ColinColin

Thistimeillwin

Two answers

In general, ​I find each withdrawal easier.
By this I mean I get less occasions of lust or temptations.

But, when the urge does strike, it strikes stronger than ever.

My post has to be read with a caveat that my urge to fall is almost always caused by emotional lowness/inner pain rather than lust.
10 Jan 2019 19:24

EscapeArtist

Sorry i had to cut that post short; I was on a work computer, & people walked into the office. (Maybe they were some of you guys...)
During withdrawal, I can see any women (who's not black, fat & bald) for a fraction of a second & start getting this stirring in my lower abdomen... I am faced with the split second decision whether to take another fraction of a second peek, which would probably be enough to get it to my head And start feeling crazy frustration which may very likely lead to blowing everything.
I start getting this feeling of terror every time i see a somewhat attractive girl; as if expecting her to pull a machete on me... maybe I SHOULD go back to group therapy...
10 Jan 2019 17:10

EscapeArtist

Hard to say. Definitely not as crazy as the 87 day stretch, but I'm only about 2 weeks in now. Previously though, I eventually ended up feeding the beast little bits at a time, so it just got crazier & crazier because I wasn't allowing myself to actually "fall" Once a person's at that point, I wonder if it's smarter (or even muttar perhaps) to "let it all out" so he can start fresh, as the more frustration you cause yourself, the crazier you go, & the more likely to end up doing something much worse. 
I think the long term solution, which I am currently attempting (with a lot of help from SA & fellows from GYE) is to not allow the triggers to get to you Quite difficult at times, but so far its working
10 Jan 2019 17:02

EscapeArtist

I believe if it's not affecting your relationship with her (hard to imagine if you're really addicted), then it's probably selfish to tell her. You'll turn her world upside down just to make yourself feel better.
If however, you are constantly disengaged, not living in the moment, not able to be a real husband, then it is wise, as it can definitely help with recovery & even build the relationship. Obviously every case must be judged carefully, as none of us want to end up on the streets, I assume. Too early she may not be commited enough to push through it; too late and it's more hurtful that you were hiding things for longer...
Category: Break Free
10 Jan 2019 16:12

mburns

I have struggled with my addiction for years.I usually "handle things" 3-7 times a day.There's just so much variety out there that its hard to avoid it.I look at all kinds too,not just women.I could really use some support,if anyone wants to talk by email?Please email me your story:
mburns.ship@gmail.com
Category: Introduce Yourself
10 Jan 2019 10:39

Thistimeillwin

EscapeArtist wrote on 09 Jan 2019 17:35:

Withdrawal is crazy. Everyone becomes a trigger.

Question for you, EscapeArtist, and for anyone else,

Do you find withdrawal the second time around (or the third or the hundredth) easier than the first? You made it to 87 days a few months ago, is it as bad as then?

My second round is much easier than the first in actual withdrawal (itch in the pants all day, sweats, hands - and computer mouse -  automatically starting to go to the wrong place).

If easier, you must psych yourself up that every day you overcome some withdrawal you'll never have to do it to that level again, whereas if you fall today, you will have to relive it next time around (I know, logic doesn't always work with the crazy beast).
10 Jan 2019 03:11

Markz

ColinColin wrote on 10 Jan 2019 00:13:
The Serenity Prayer is:

"Hashem, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change...."

It was written by an American Notzrim minister


This is something you can change?
10 Jan 2019 01:12

Hakolhevel

From Rabbi Shais Taub.
addictionblog.org/spirit/what-does-the-serenity-prayer-mean/The Serenity Prayer & AA

Most people who know even just a little bit about addiction and alcoholism know about “those meetings” where people get together and all say the Serenity Prayer together and then say, “Hi, my name is ____ and I’m a ____.”

Original Serenity Prayer

The truth is that the Serenity prayer did not originate with the 12-Step movement.  Its most well-known version is attributed to the 20th century theologian and social commentator, Reinhold Niebuhr, but many — Niebuhr included — concede that the prayer has been around in various forms for centuries.  Interestingly, the prayer is not part of any religion’s liturgy and, as such, is truly a non-sectarian prayer.

Enough background.  What does the prayer mean?

What Does The Serenity Prayer Mean?

There are three parts to the Serenity Prayer.  The first asks for “the serenity to accept the things that can’t be changed;” the second asks for “the courage to change the things that can” be changed; and the third asks for “the wisdom to know the difference” between the things that can and cannot be changed.

In other words, we’re asking G-d for three things — serenity, courage, and wisdom.  Serenity has its time and place; courage has its time and place; and wisdom is the ability to know whether it’s a time and place for serenity or a time and place for courage.

For instance, being resigned to a situation that can and should be changed is not really serenity so much as complacency, while trying to change something that is just a fact of reality isn’t really courage so much as foolishness. Therefore, we don’t want to use serenity to deal with situations that really call for courage and we don’t want to use courage to deal with situations that really call for serenity.

Serenity Or Courage?

The problem is that self-deception, denial and our inherent prejudices make it hard for us to to tell these two kinds of situations apart.  Sometimes we trick ourselves into just accepting something that really is our responsibility to take care of because we are afraid of dealing with it. In that case, what we really need is courage — not serenity.  Other times, we are convinced that if we would just try harder, come one stronger, give things another chance, then we will be able to alter some aspect of the truth to be more to our liking.  We do this because in our perfectionist drive to control people, places and things, we believe that reality ought to be different than it is and therefore, we are sure, we just need more grit and gumption to see things through.  But what we really need is the ability to let go and let G-d.  We don’t need courage in that situation, but serenity.

So, we pray to our Higher Power to guide us in honestly assessing all situations so that we will come to the proper decision — serenity or courage.

Serenity Prayer Exercises

One general guideline that I have personally found helpful is the “me-you principle.”  If something needs to change, it needs to change in me, while if something about you seems to be my problem, then what I really need to do is realize that you are who you are right now and accept that truth.  It’s funny how it works out.  When I don’t waste my energy trying to change you, I seem to have a lot more energy left over to change myself and when I work on changing myself, I seem to have a lot less problems with you

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