Having a rough day..
Going through some particularly hard time with my wife... My job has been very לא יצלח'דיק lately...  have very little חשק to learn... Getting that feeling that acting out is the only way to escape it all...
Then again, at the very least I'm מחשיב myself for working this hard to stay clean for this long... no way I wanna give THAT up!
The Eibishter should continue to help us all!

It’s a nice line, but excuse me while I vent that we’ve forgotten something fundamental here.

Everyone here says that they aren’t motivated to stop because Hashem said so; they’re motivated because they want to be a human or a mensch. Dov often talks about Derech Eretz comignbefore the Torah, and we have to be people before we’re frum.

Guess what? There is no Mitzvah to watch porn. And, gasp-there is a Mitzvah of קדושים תהיו. And guess what else? All these reasons that we want to be sober besides the Torah-they’re all in there. Hashem wants us to be mentchen and not animals, and he wants us to have clear heads that aren’t full of junk so we can connect to our families and wives and Torah and Him-and so of course, and I know everyone knows this, there could never be a Mitzvah Chas veshalom to watch porn. 

So, since we are still a frum forum, whether or not our catalyst or motivation is because of Hashem or “humanity”, one thing we can’t forget. All these lofty, or maybe very basic ideas hat we’re expressing-about stopping because it’s gross and we feel like animals- the Torah knee that too. 

The Torah knew that when it called מצריים who were known to be involved in עריות as חמורים וסוסים, and it knew it when the Midrash says that one who is running after עריות we feed them their own flesh. 

So yeah, if it was a Mitzvah-ok scratch that. I’ll stop for whatever reason I’ll stop, but Hashem, thanks for recognizing all these things before the fact that we’ve recognized after we’ve indulged in them- that your תורה which you say is לטוב לך, which is good for us, is good for us in this world and observing it protects us from so many problems that we face when we don’t listen. 

Please don’t take this as directed at either of you; it’s something that’s been bubbling over for a while based on many posts I’ve seen, recently and in the past. 

Dear Friend

I know that you meant no bad but I will use some strong words in response to the above vort
CV"S to say that Yaakov avienu hated Leah it is very clearly stated by all miforshim that it was in comparison to Rochel 
I am only responding like this as it bothers me that people put their own emotions into the Torah.
Yes we are all struggling and want and maybe even need validation but there has to be a limit on how far we will go to get it 

Just a round up for me. I have come to realize more clearly that what bothers me as an addict is porn more than masturbation. I don't feel out of control if I masturbate even daily. And a few months ago, I was pretty much doing that while still not feeling I was suffering in any way because I felt out of control. As a yid I felt guilty and rightly so. I did feel I needed to masturbate but it didn't debilitate me. So I was just able to live with it. 

Once porn enters the picture though it has never failed to reduce me to a zombie that literally masturbates almost non-stop every waking hour. 

This was a strong realization for me. I am not looking to rationalize or make a case for daily masturbation. That is wrong without question according to my religious beliefs. HOwever, I do feel  a sense of stability knowing that if I do masturbate it does not have to send me into a frantic panicky feeling that my world is crashing in on me. I hate that insanity. Porn though is scary to me.

I wish I could be normal and just need to stay away from porn becasuse they are assur and not because I am unable to control it.

I just want to clear something up. The Big Book does not say "beyond human aid," it says "that PROBABLY no human..." That was key for me. Because maybe I'm not beyond human aid? But I probably am. 

Here is my actual stepwork on the matter: "The key word for me here is probably. I’m a very literal person by nature. I cannot say that it’s unfathomable that a human could have relieved my disease. However, I can say probably. I went to therapy for many years but it didn’t get rid of my disease. I tried all sorts of things by myself which didn’t work. I spoke to Rabbis and that didn’t work either. What did work was joining a spiritual program and inviting God into my life. All those things point evidence that human power has failed when it comes to relieving my disease. Therefore, I am confident that probably no human power could have relieved my lust addiction."

Next time try having some coffee with your tequila....

I just went to a meeting that was all about sharing experience, so here goes: 

Deterioration:
5 days ago I was on top of the world. I hadn't touched myself in 9 months and I could probably count on one hand the amount of times I took actions of lust. I was helping others and successful, doing well in college and decent in yeshiva. I was taking care of myself pretty well and enjoying life. I had a lot of luxuries in my life, a smartphone, a car, a laptop and the ability to be independant.

Just 4 days later I was a different person. My addiction took over and I was very rapidly deteriorating. I acted out with 3 men anonymously over 4 days. I wasn't eating or sleeping like a normal human. My schedule was completely out of whack. Ironically, I did schoolwork, but that is because of my perfectionism. I can't let myself get anything less than an A. I crossed lines in terms of sexual behavior, my life was consumed by the pursuit of my next fix. I was acting out even though I didn't want to. I may have drank something that wasn't kosher, but I didn't care. The unmanageability of my life was extreme. I couldn't have yichud with myself because I was acting out, day or night. I needed to sleep in my sponsors apartment, (to the embarrassment of myself to his apartment mates, whom all knew something was up), because I couldn't be alone at night. He had to take my keys and phone, because they were dangerous for me at the time. I needed to check in with another addict every 15 minutes throughout the day because any time to myself was an opportunity for me to act out. I had no self, I was completely taken over by addiction. This is what is called being an addict, so if you are one please help yourself before it gets to where I got. And if you aren't, you may not want it to progress. Which leads me to my gratitudes.

Gratitudes:
A lot of people have really came through in special ways throughout my relapse. I would like to thank you all for your support, even though I was spiraling away. Specifically Mark and BigMoish. Moish is my 15 minute check-in partner and Mark had some really sweet posts. Gevura also. Sorry if I'm leaving anyone out. I also owe my sponsor a great debt of gratitude. He took me under his wing, completely pro bono. He made me dinner because I wasn't eating. He made me a bed on his couch and set up my linens. He gave me pajamas. He drove me to and from meetings. He took time out from his day to speak with me and let me express myself, and also tell me what I need to do to stay sober. He took my keys and phone because he knew they weren't good for me at the time. I really am so grateful to him, I was crying last night thinking about it. I'm also grateful to God for sticking with me and keeping me alive at this moment. There's no reason I should be here, not based on the actions I was doing, it's purely out of love for me. It's surreal to have people care for me and help me out with no intention of a payback from me. I can't even fathom it. It's antithetical to how I live(d) my life.

That's all for now. I don't have much internet access for the time being so you may not hear much from me.

Peace Out. 

GrowStrong wrote on 15 Jun 2017 06:39:

I could be wrong, but I remember hearing a gemorrah that said that having sex without taiva for your wife is a bad thing. Also, it's not black and white. You can have sex to both give her what she needs as well as to fulfill a normal need of your own.  It's a waste of time and energy to believe that the sexual drive is bad, and then spend time repressing and fighting it, even though I know this is what SA preaches (I've had over 11 years of experience with that group). The idea that we have to wage war on "lust" is rooted in non Jewish and shameful interpretation for what the sexual drive is. You see, historically, non Jews have always viewed natural human urges as evil, and therefore the only solution is to repress them, fight them, whatever.  That's why historically their holy men don't get married, don't drink alcohol, etc... Jews take a much different approach. We believe that instinctual drives can be used for the good, and our job is to learn how to do that.  We make a bracha on wine. We make a bracha on food. It's a mitzvah to have sex. Rather than fighting our urges, we give them holy outlets.  The sex drive is no more shameful than the drive to eat or sleep, but its our past abuse of sexual pleasure that makes us believe that so called "lust" is the problem when it really isn't, rather it was how we used "lust" (I hate that word).  SA is a good program but I think that their misguided assault on the sex drive, or what they term "lust", is unhealthy and not Jewish.  It's like if OA would wage a war on hunger. Hunger is not a bad thing, it's a good thing, without it we wouldn't eat. So too with sexual desire, it's a good thing (nobody would procreate without it according to the Gemorrah), now just learn how to channel it into what's permitted.  So, yes, it's possible to enjoy the feeling of sexual pleasure and at the same time try and give pleasure to your wife.