I would like to introduce another argument, and it is one that I didn't think of initially, and it teaches me a bit in regard to judgin' others.

This argument, I don't think Shlomo agrees with, and that's fine, it's really not intended for him.

Everyone has their guns blazin', for he said that although he's workin' on his sexual addiction towards other males, he nevertheless has come to terms with his sexuality, he is continuin' with his male partner and plans on tying the knot with him. And we are aghast.

I propose (and again, shlomo clearly does not subscribe to this view and I'm not sure I even think that it applies in this case, but who knows) that it is his addiction that is driving' his decision. You ask me: it doesn't make sense that he's workin' a recovery program but he throws in the towel on his life style, I say that you see how connivin' the addictive nature is.

One who is sexually addicted can convince himself that open marriage is the way to go;

one who is sexually addicted can convince himself that although he won't touch himself under his belt, he will visit an escort, for he needs sex and his wife is not givin' him any;

one who is sexually addicted will convince himself that it's better to routinely act out once a week rather than face the challenges of every moment;

one who is sexually addicted convinces himself that goin' to a meeting in a church or readin' from the 12 steps which was authored by a priest (or perhaps a cardinal) is אביזרייהו דע"ז, and therefore forbidden.

All of the above, many of us can tolerate on this site. Why? We all understand that addiction plays with the mind in ways that we can't even fathom.

But to such an extent (the scenario on this thread), that is beyond the realm. Hmmm.....

unless i understood shlomo wrong, than although he is still struggling with his sexual addiction, he has thrown in the towel on his ssa. which, unlike everyone else one gye, is extreme audaciousness against the torah and hashem. its not the openly admitting, its the (openly) saying "this part of the torah is not for me"

Day 20

So I'm finally getting the hang of not masturbating every time I get aroused, or even masturbating for the arousal. I also have been fantasizing somewhat but I dont act on it physically.

Probably the weirdest thing that is happening to me is that I dont want to ejaculate because I remember all the many times in the past 20 days where it would've been the most perfect time to do so but I controlled myself so how can I break a streak on a non-perfect ejaculation. It's sort of fasting the whole day and then breaking your fast on water. But I know this isn't a great deterrent from ejaculation/masturbation because what if I feel like there is the perfect moment then I will ejaculate, but don't worry it won't happen because of how motivated I am from the real reasons I am doing this program. I need to make it 90 days to break my addiction.

Shlomo24 wrote on 15 Apr 2019 16:42:

Thanks for the clarification. 

Shlomo24 wrote on 15 Apr 2019 16:42:

Thank you for clarifyin'.

As I wrote above, there is a question as to what to do when someone says, "I am doin' this," and he is absolute about it, and others think it is wrong. While I am not a posek, I believe that it in this case, nobody should tell you what to do or not to do (although they could as it's a public forum), but they/we can tell others that this is not a decision that we condone.

Thank you and Godspeed!

cordnoy wrote on 15 Apr 2019 16:37:

Good question. For clarification, I meant that I will not be debating my choices with others, for they are my choices and not others. If someone has an issue with what I presented, and they feel I should do differently, that is their opinion and not mine. I will not be here to show why I'm right. Put simply, my "Bein Adom L'Makom" isn't everyone else's "Bein Adom L'Chaveiroh."

Shlomo24 wrote on 15 Apr 2019 06:40:

you wrote: Just a PSA: If you disapprove of this, that's frankly your problem.

What does that mean? Someone can disapprove and not have a problem at all. He disapproves for it is against the Torah and not in line with our values. Whether it's your problem or not, that's up for you to decide. Some will say that it's our problem and yours together for we are all areivim zeh lazeh; that may be true as well.

Left hangin'.....

Newbie wrote on 15 Apr 2019 15:06:

We're not here to convince you that you, your wife or your marriage have a mental health issue. if you think your life is fine, continue on. if you're here to learn how to guard your eyes, mind, etc., ask. Why should we convince you that you have a potential problem? Some will say that it's our duty to set you straight. maybe. maybe not.

​I personally am not enthralled with the philosophical question: why are we lusters different than the non-Jewish ones, in terms of a healthy marriage? It can be debated, and that's fine, but what do you want?

Hi Guys, 

its been a few few days since I joined and I have to say that this site is a true inspiration and encouragement for me. There’s a lot more here than I expected!

That being said, Before I go into what I’m going to ask I want to give a little background of my situation. I don’t consider myself a full blown addict in any way. Since childhood I’ve struggled with looking at inappropriate pictures and women on the street (who doesn’t!) and I’m my early teens I discovered masturbation. I’ve never been a chronic masturbator as my guilt would usually hold me back. But I did fall into it every now and then. When I went to EY I visited some Internet cafes and that’s when I saw pornography for the first time. Again I would fall into it here and there but never did it on a constant basis. 

At this point my head was very dirty and I would check out every woman on the street. Time came to start dating and my head was filled with thoughts about sex. When dating a girl I would think about having sex with her a lot. 
I met my wife and we got engaged, everything was pretty smooth and when we got married I stopped masturbating for a good year or so until i went back to my here and there falling into it as when I was single. 

Basically in in a nutshell, I’m a guy who looks at women in the street (always) and thinks about sex a lot, occasionally looks at porn, pictures, or reads/listens to erotic things and occasionally masturbates. 

Now I fully understand that this is wrong according to the Torah and I always felt bad about these behaviors and that’s definitely what keeps it in check and holding me back from doing it more often. 

My question thay I’d like to pose here is from a mental health/relationship point of view. I get the feeling from many people on this forum about how damaging lust can be to a persons marriage and to their general well being overall and how it’s not living life, etc, etc..... 
I am wondering if this is so, does this mean that every non-Jew is not living life? Are they not capable of having a real relationship? Like I would say about 99% of non Jewish men are lusting, masturbating, looking at porn on a pretty frequent basis.

So basically I’m trying to understand why are we different? Why do we need to be so clean just to be mentally healthy and enjoy life. Why do we need to be so clean in order to have a good marriage?

My apologies to the people who wrote me.

Even this post is not bein' written as a moderator, although it reflects this moderator's position as to why he is not deletin' the above post.

It was written that the torah forbids homosexual sex and that there is a prohibition against two males marryin' with a kesuvah. (lots of stuff were written there, but I'm just mentionin' this part.) Fine.

Others can write that as well.

Masturbation is a prohibition as well. Many on this site wrote that they act out and some add that they will continue to do so.

Watchin' porn or oglin' women is against a lav in the torah. Many here attest to that as well, and some say that they will continue to do so.

Cohabitin' with a prostitute is probably assur as well. Some have written about their actions and their plans.

We have had people write about extra marital affairs as well. Some have posted about not bein' careful with the niddah restrictions.

Where is the broohah?

Now, I know you will respond that this case is different, for he writes that he is comfortable with that decision. Again I say that many are ok with their decisions at the time as well. Some say they'll change and some don't.

I am not smart enough to know the difference and the nuances between ssa, sex addict, commitment to a male partner, conversion therapy, etc.

This site is an open forum where the purpose is to guard our eyes (and minds I assume) and actions. Not every post is sanctioned by the torah. If you feel someone is rapin' his wife or someone else's, or someone is violatin' a biblical or rabbinical prohibition, or someone doesn't care about his friends property or feelings, speak up my friend.

Shlomo is not tellin' anyone what to do or how to conduct their life, and if somebody does offer suggestions, it is your job, our responsibility, etc. to say what we think.

Personally, I think that there are many more damagin' posts on the forum. I can almost guarantee that there will not be one fellow who marries a male based on the above post, but there will be people who avoid true recovery based on other feel-good posts. There will be some who end up in divorce based on suggestions of tellin' their spouse or not tellin.

This is a public forum. Don't be afraid to say your opinion. (This sentence was written in response to the people who did not wanna reply on the forum to shlomo's post because they were afraid of him.)

Godspeed to all

This post is a long time coming but probably not much of a surprise. I'm going to be short and sweet about it.

After many years of struggling with my sexual identity, much of it documented on this website actually, I've come to accept myself as a homosexual man. I've come to accept that if I want marriage and a family, it will be with a male partner. I've been in a relationship with my partner for about a year and a half. I am still very much a sex addict, and still very much working a strong recovery program with a Sponsor. I have a Sponsee as well. I've decided to reveal this on this forum due to unrelated current events that have shown me how painful it is for me to hide such a crucial part of my experience. I hope to be an example of someone who can live a healthy and spiritual life while also proudly being open about my sexuality, given there's so much shame in frum circles.

Just a PSA: If you disapprove of this, that's frankly your problem. I will not be debating if it's right/wrong but I may respond to some questions, up to my discretion. If you do want to chat about it, your best shot is to send me a Hangouts message on my email below.

Hi Moisheisgood, 

Wow that’s amazing. If you have a chance it would be really helpful if you can give me more details as to what you’re struggles were and how you saw improvement in your marriage by working on the struggles. 

I myself don’t watch porn on a regular basis but I do look at women a lot and don’t control my thoughts enough. I also struggle with reading inappropriate things. Basically I don’t consider it a full addiction but more of a struggle. That being said I’m wondering how much it’s effecting my marriage. 

End of Day 12

Was busy today so not too bad. But now I am losing my motivation to make it 90 days. The only thing I feel like I want to do is just check out instagram for the sexual arousal and for relaxing. I'm so certain that I have a double addiction-one to masturbation and one for instagram. But anything I do I do not feel like I am being productive even thought my mind tells me I am, and although my mind tells me that it's really bad for me to go on to instagram because then I never made it 90 days and i dont break my addiction, my body is telling me that I need to go on it. The same thing is true for masturbating. ahhhhhh!!!!!

Welcome! 
I definitely relate to the feeling of needing to do it, mainly out of habit. Been that way for about 25 years. Sure, I have triggers that can send me flying, but even without external triggers, every time I sit for too long, lay down in bed, or just am alone, I automatically start feeling the need in my lower abdomen.
I've joined SA about 3 months ago, and Thank G-D, staying clean is gradually becoming easier. The longer I hold off, the less the "habit" side of me kicks in. I still need to face triggers all the time, but I'm learning how to deal with them. If I ever do start slipping a bit with the triggers though, the habit comes right back as if never gone....
I'm curious why only now after 17 years did the feelings of possibly getting caught & hurting your wife kick in. Do you find your methods of acting out escalating to dangerous areas? Are you taking bigger risks, unable to stop when you know there's a good chance at being caught? Think about it. Try stopping on your own, if it ain't working out you may want to consider speaking to a professional about addictions.
You should have much הצלחה, whatever route you take!

rolemodel wrote on 05 Apr 2019 01:31:

Loved your post!
This is what I felt when I came to GYE.
I din't care about religion, God or anything else.
​All I wanted is to become free from my crazy uncontrollable bad habit (addiction) that took me over.
Today, thanks God life is much more manageable.