cordnoy wrote on 18 Oct 2019 13:25:

Because all sins are not on his to do list.

cordnoy wrote on 18 Oct 2019 13:25:

i respect you tremendously cords.
not that that makes a diff to anyone.
but i believe this qoute is not addressing what i said.
all right.
almost.
(i wasnt quoted so i cant say it was intended to either).
This is actually dragging me into the area that i didnt want to go in. 
the klausenberger rebbe zt"l, (in his collected shiurim chumash rashi-''shefa chaim), brings exactly this idea as the reason why it IS possible to do teshuva for us.
because we dont really relate to the choimer of this sin. and even if we intellectually KNOW that its the WORST sin (yeah the whole deal) we still dont understand it (or feel it) im pretty sure he says thats why er and onan were punished with misah min hashomayim
(something unmatched, that the pusuk immediately describes the punishment unlike any other sin in the torah including murder-almost like the proverbial ''lightning bolt'') is because they understood the gravity of the sin. 
​obviously tzaddikim in tanach and their actual nisyonos are beyond our comprehension and thier sins are relative to thier high levels (no one should think they were just low individuals, chas v'shalom. but regardless it is written for us to learn from on our level as well) 
but all that has NOTHING to do with that it IS indeed the worst sin in the torah. 
​perhaps we are judged (more) leniently because of the reasons i mentioned above. but the actual gravity of the sin for its own (value?) remains. there is more to go into including the moreh heter aspect but i think this suffices.
by the way have a great shabbos everyone! and yom tov!  
p.s. as i am editing, at the risk of being disingenuous, i just realized that nadav and avihu were also immediately punished for thier chet. i believe that its different over there but i dont want to debate that now and i think its off topic. maybe another time. 

Dov says another great (in my opinion) point: if these guys actually, truly, really, honestly believe that this is the worst sin in the world, they wouldn't do it. They'd find some other addiction to get involved with. Otherwise, they are crock full of sh*t.

If one, as a prerequisite to masturbatin', would be compelled to steal, say lashon hara, punch someone in the face, eat milchigs twenty minutes after fleishigs ( God forbid), they wouldn't do it. Why?

1-12steps wrote on 17 Oct 2019 21:47:

I met many of the old timers as well.
heck, I'm almost one of them myself.

Who said that everyone's an addict?

for my ego...

I have (almost) met Barditchiver
I have met R Guard (dunno what he calls himself today)
I know most of the the SA turned GYE staff
I took one of the SA Admorim as my sponsor
I bumped into too many childhood freinds in 12 step groups


But i firmly dissagree with the notion that everyone is addicts! It's sort of the undoing of step 1 (bringing everyone down to join you at "rock bottom") and destructive to steps 8-9 (coming to terms with the guilt and embarrasment from our actions)

i do agree that many pivital elements of the steps WOULD ENRICH ANYONE'S LIFE and frankly that's the reason i'm back to WORK THE STEPS on this blog (forum)

cordnoy wrote on 17 Oct 2019 01:36:

listen trouble brought up private chat so i will as well. i just want to add 1 little point in terms of the gravity of this sin (masterbating).
before i do that i want to make a disclaimer to all the readers that throughout the doros, every gadol that has written about this topic has stated it IS possible to do teshuvah on this aveirah. so no one get yiush. the following is technical for the most part.
i related to trouble how even if this sin wasnt prevalent in earlier doros, its such a big aveirah that it warrents being front and center in tefillas zakkah. (there are also many bechinos to this aveirah but im not getting into that) to support myself i said over the famous zohar saying how its there isnt teshuva for such an aveirah (again, remember the above.) mr. trouble seemed to be unimpressed with my bringing of the source. i am unsure if it was because of my lack of bekius in zohar, my lack of understanding in zohar, or my lack of understanding in general, or all 3.(which are true btw) regardless, i found something in the kitzur shulchan aruch written for simple jews like me. so here goes. (excuse my poor lashon kodesh)
''it is forbidden to emit semen in vain and this sin is worse then ALL of the sins of the torah.'' etc. see there (siman 151) as he is mayrech. he also brings various tikkunim there.
sound pretty darn harsh, no?
so yeah-no proof from zakkah that this was prevalent.
the fact that it was done-at all-is deserving enough.

Trouble wrote on 16 Oct 2019 23:12:

Trouble does bring up some valid points. We might not like the way he spells 'em out, but they do need to be addressed and cannot simply be dismissed. I, sadly, will not be that guy. He does make certain assumptions which are just that - assumptions, not facts. He cannot deny that there is a gravity to these actions although they might have been rampant. And, obviously, the internet generation has made this entire issue so much more prevalent, for everyone.

Trouble wrote on 10 Oct 2019 14:24:

my second half...   what's up with all this looking at women business? this was before the advent of the internet. hell, Larry Flynt wasn't even conceived yet. porn!? tank tops, thongs and bikinis? the women were dressed better than today's men. men wear tighter and shorter pants than the women of yesteryear. was there even a chance of observing a glimpse of skin centuries ago? what were they all looking at? did they need an asifah in the Vilna ghetto that the men should walk on the other side of the city? what were they fantasizing about? I thought all the experts told us that porn is ruining our marriages with false expectations. these guys were erect every other day and they never saw a centerfold in their lives!

and what's up with only the men? the women never got the hots for those young studs!? when did that start? is it an abnormality of the new generation? why don't they need to cry for masturbating under their covers? and dare I venture into controversial areas. what happened with all the homosexuals? did they show up for tefillas zakkah? were they disinvited? were they so frowned upon that they weren't even allowed into the synagogue?

several conclusions from this perverted lowlife:

1. it's not the internet, it's us!
2. it ain't the internet, so cut it out with the filters (maybe).
3. women didn't masturbate.
4. men didn't look at other men ( as a rule).
5. cheating was rampant.
6. unless you're majorly addicted, just wait for zakkah.
7. let me have it, pile on!

I cant say for sure but I think mindfulness wont help me. When I say I need other people to run my life I'm referring to other addicts with whom all other methods failed. I've tried rebbeim, therapy, taphsic and more. I need to be taught how to tap in to a "Power Greater Than Myself". 
Then again, as always (perhaps specifically now), I may be wrong.

higher wrote on 07 Oct 2019 19:05:

My statistics are based on interactions I have had with those who have "led the fight". Being an involved community person, that means a nice amount of people. I also have heard this comment from others who I respect. However your point is well taken. I should not generalize and apply a statistic based on a cross section of my community to the greater population.

cordnoy wrote on 07 Oct 2019 16:48:

Sad, but doesnt prove you cant change by yourself.

Hashem Help Me wrote on 27 Sep 2019 11:31:

with all due respect in regards to the bold words...um...how do you assume that? in what way does it ''appear''?? do you have statistics? does dov even KNOW that? unless thousands is literal and it really matches up in terms of the numbers....sorry this just smacks of generalization and requires a thorough knowledge of many factors wherever these demonstrations take place (one of them being a real survey which i doubt there is).
way too late to comment on this one, excuse me...

Tzvi5 wrote on 07 Oct 2019 12:59:

And many people with this mindset (me bein' one of them for a while), remain permanently drunk.

Perhaps you can look at addiction as continuing to "drink" as he's not yet ready to exert himself. In other words even if for many times he continued, that's still no proof he can't stop the drinking. (No proof what aa. Defines as addict exists)

My point is that while one is "drinking" he could abruptly stop. and if he didn't until now, that's not proof he can't.

The reason I'm saying this is: that a person shouldn't give up hope on himself. (Ie: he can change on his own)

(He need not admit powerlessness nor submit to a higher power)

AStrugglingJew wrote on 06 Oct 2019 22:52:

Do you have people who you keep in touch with regarding your addiction? At times when you're head is going insane there is nothing like a phone call to a smart person who has achieved a big streak of sobriety. To calm you down. Because you are fine it is all in your head...........and when you try fighting against your head you are bound to lose. You need to call someone to calm you down and truly get you back into stable thinking.

 Love Yankel, feel free to reach out buddy.