Dear PFN -It was sweet reading your post, though the pain it brings up in my memory is horrible - at the same time. I also told some of my story on this site in an earlier post and went through the therapist and medication route. Before that, I went through the teshuva and frumkeit route. I was not yet able to use any of those tools to stay sober, until I started to work the 12 steps in SA. In my case, working the steps, going regularly to weekly SA meetings, getting a sponsor, and making many calls to other members helped my life get turned around. I'd be happy to give you all the details, but for now, suffice it to say that my entire consciousness and inner life (and as much of my outer life as was possible) were about lust and nothing more. I was in a constant state of either: excitement/anticipation of when I'd act on my lust again, or depressing/exhausting fear of when I'd screw up and act on my lust again! That went on for fifteen years (beside the adolescent phase of all that, which did appear more run-of-the-mill). But I digress...
I was going to a therapist because I got caught. He put me on meds and gave me talk therapy but I got progressively worse. I introduced him to the 12 steps in some literature I had come by in one of my many 'bad' searches. He did not consider it worthwhile. The question he asked me was: Look, do you want to beat this thing and get healed, or do you lust want help to learn how to live with it? Cuz that's all 12 steps will give you." Well, when I acted out 11 years ago this past February and saw how out of control I was (married with three children at the time) I had a gift from Hashem of clear recognition that there was nothing really stopping me from taking the very next step in acting out, which would require me to throw away my entire life - family, religion, community, and everything. I saw my death looming and felt, "I need to do something - anything - to stop and stay stopped, NOW." That's when I went to an addictions therapist who connected me with SA and I have been working the program, doing service work, making friends, and staying sober ever since. My life and then life of my wife and children is immeasurable better now, and I have a best friend who is the answer to all my needs. It's not a picture of a woman, not is it any woman - not even my wife. It is the Almighty Friend I always had, who created the world, lust, all pleasure, all goodness, and me. He will take care of me, and as long as I do what is necessary to remain aware of him and be honest with myself I will live a life that is made beatiful with the awareness that Hashem is with me and everything will be OK. So far, with a lot of help, I have not needed to reach for my drug (like I did in the past) to live. Just being religious or davening was not enough for me, because I was very, very broken and very goofy in the head. Now I am a sick, or broken, person getting better/fixed up, not a bad person getting good. Hope something here was helpful, Dov

Wecome aboard!!!

We on these forums are all  trying to reach one goal to break an addiction.
Doing that requires work. Work is hard but work is rewarding. If it was easy to break any Midddah or any negative behavoir pattern by just making up your mind and POOF!! I"M a new person if it was that easy we wouldn't be here.
On the other hand every day we grow every challenge we overcme every time we look away from the pretty woman every time we don’t SURF the net  every time we overcome an urge just to take one peek. All those victories build you elevate you they give you strength.

I found alot of my  addiction was triggered by boredom .Use your head BEFORE you go online read some of the stories and the chziuk here BFORE you keep on going It is a great motivator and a great Reminder.

POST AWAY!!
h&H
bardichev

Dearest Tzaddik Efshar Letaken

Thank you for the compliment. I am really trying hard to keep myself both to be good and to be happy.

We on these forums are all  trying to reach one goal to break an addiction.
Doing that requires work. Work is hard but work is rewarding. If it was easy to break any Midddah or any negative behavoir pattern by just making up your mind and POOF!! I"M a new person if it was that easy we wouldn't be here.
On the other hand every day we grow every challenge we overcme every time we look away from the pretty woman every time we don’t SURF the net  every time we overcome an urge just to take one peek. All those victories build you elevate you they give you strength.

They also give you SIYATTA DISHMAYA. ILMALIE HAKODOSH BORUCH HU OZRO LO YOCHOL LO.
The greatest bracha in the world is SIYATTA DISHMAYA.You need HASEM to get you through the day.Daven to him do something for him in a positive way and you can say TATTE! I’m becoming better stronger closer to you please remove the stumbling blocks that I can get closer and closer.

The glue that binds is called AHAVA the attraction is called CHESHEK. BUILD UP YOUR CHESHEK IN AVODAS HASHEM you wont have room for other CHESHEK

KEEP FIGHTING THE FIGHT Y"H IS RUNNING FOR THE DOOR!!!

humble and happy
bardichev

We recieved an e-mail from someone today:

I wanted to let you know that I am reading a new book now called "Battle Plans" How to fight the Yezer Hora (Shaar Press) By Rebb. Tzipporah Heller and Rebb. Yocheved Riegler.
I have found this book incredible as it teaches so much about who our enemy is and how he works. It also gives incredible tools how to fight the yezer hora.

I strongly suggest that you add this book as recommended reading to every internet addict.

B"H

Shalom Aleichem everyone, B"H all was good today.

I wanted to write up a story about the Klausenberger Rebbe TZ"L that is found in the book the Klausenberger Rebbe The War Years by Judah Lifschitz (pg 26)

The Rebbe explained his success in Torah in the following way. "In my youth I was considered a bright and diligent student. How did I accomplish this? I tricked my yetzer hara. Other children made great plans at the beginning of the school year for the whole year, and in the end they failed. I said to myself, 'I am going to plan just for today and set goals for this day only.' The Satan not being interested in a single day, left me alone. The next day I again made plans just for that day and so on until the end of a year."

Similarly, the avodah of us on this forum is to approach this addiction day by day. When faced with a challenge we must say that right now we will be mekadesh shem shomayim. It is not for us to look with worry at the mountain of time left till 90 days (The Olam has already established the dangers of such worries). This is our avodah and im lo achshav, aymosai?

Ashrecha Yisroel!

Hashem! look down at how your children want to be close to you & how much we struggle to be true to you.

Its amazing to see how many yiden out there are so upset with there bad addictions and keep on trying to get out of it to get closer to hashem for real. no strings attached!

So we ask of you Hashem Please help us get over are Addictions.

I'm not the one to give any advice of my own but I can tell you this much is true that your therapist obviously has no clue what He/She is talking about.

#1 - Don't you think you would be making any progress with you problems? (unfortunately some therapists focus on $ & helping you will end the $ flow so really helping you wont help them)
#2 - I really do think the porn addiction has a lot to do with getting over your depression.

It might be the same old story just not a new "twist". This site has real solid helpful tips for anyone that really wants to help themselves.

GUE, Thank you very much for this chizuk message and I really connected  because I too am bankrupt at around that age because of depression. I will definitely  get the book and watch the movie. I will probably listen to the shiur tomorrow.

Maybe I am wrong, I do not think I am addicted to porn like some others, I can go four five days sometimes a few weeks no problem. The problem is when I feel resentment to life, my wife, myself, or I am feeling down or depressed. In other words for me to say, I AM CLEAN FOR ONE DAY is not such as an accomplishment for me as much as when I say day 20 or day 40. That means either I was not down enough or resentful to bring myself to porn, or when I was down or resentful I chose another avenue to cope with the feeling other than fixing it with porn. I think either of these options are a great improvement.

Dear Yiddle, you write "my experience is different than yours". Before I try to address your question, I just want to point out that "your experience" is 2 days clean. Dov's experience is 11 years clean. Let's stand back in AWE and try to understand this deep message Dov is giving us... Maybe if we learn from him NOW, we will save ourselves from riding the endless roller coaster of Teshuva/Neffila.

The truth is Yiddel, that what you are addressing is one of the oldest questions. "Do we truly have free will, or is Hashem doing it all?" And the answer is that BOTH are true. See here and here on our FAQ pages. The amazing thing with us though, is that in the case of this addiction/disease we have to focus - and "live" with the "second" truth much more than the first, or we'll end up falling. That's how I see it at least.

There is much I can say... but since this is a truly "fine" line to define and a very "touchy" and delicate subject - I will leave it to the real expert "Dov" to explain more this deep concept.

Dov, we want to hear how you answer Yiddle please.

Dov,

My experience in this must be quite different than yours. I never feel that it is an impossible task to overcome. I have felt that I will never overcome it because of my inner will and true feelings but never thought it was impossible. After seeing som estories on this website, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING is impossible. impossible is impossible (chew on that one). But it can be done with the proper mindset as a Jew. I'll tell you exactly why its not impossible. let me give you a classic example: Someone Chas Veshalom gets that feeling inside them that they must look at imappropriate things. nothing is going to stop them right? All of a sudden his mom walks just to see how he is doing. Is he going to stop? I think so. If someone walking in can stop him from doing it, then you can stop on your own will. yes i do agre it is an addiction, but there are things and occurances that will stop you when you are even at your worst stage. The way you make it sound is that nothing can stop you if your mind is set to do it. I dont think you need a Neis from Hashem to stop this. Eizehu Gibor? Hakovesh Et Yitzroh. Becoming a Gibor, a strong person doesnt happen over night. Ya you can take steroids and in the shirt run you'll succeed, but current events have taught us that taking steroids will get oyu caught. In order to become a true Gibor you need to work your way up, lifting weights everyday. If ou take off one day your regimen is off and you start your journey to become a Gibor over. But its you who does it with Hashem's help. The fact that I lasted the past 2 days was not a Neis, it was my own will power. Hakol Biday Shomayim Chutz Mi'yiras Shomayim.

-Yiddle2

Thank-you INH!! (how about a name?) -
One sort-of correction. I'd consider removing the qoutation marks from the word "impossible" you wrote. I believe with a whole heart that the 12 step program is not written for the person who is having a hard time w/this stuff, or who is having an "impossible" nisayon. It is written specifically for the person who has encountered an absolutely, really impossible nisayon for them. How many times in early recovery did I think in a nisayon, "well, they certainly weren't talking about THIS in recovery and then steps and told me to make a call to a program guy and to daven to Hashem and work the steps! THIS IS REALLY, REALLY IMPOSSIBLE and nothing will work. It's for the person who has fallen so low that they have no hope at all. They may have lost their job, wife, children, most of their sanity, and health and are truly alone, and they recognize with a shock, that they'd still act out tomorrow!! They can't believe it! It is scary to know you can't stop not matter what. This is the one who recovery is for, along with everybody who realizes they are going there, too, should they follow the path they are on. The desperation, the struggle is over. We lost. That is my "step one" - I by my power, I am beaten. Now recovery starts. This disease is a roller coaster ride you can't get off of going down hell - I mean "hill". If you grab onto the steps and get your "power" out of the way, then Hashem unbuckles the seat and plucks you out like an "Ud Mutzal Mey-eish". It IS impossible. It is not a struggle - beating the YH is for the normal yidden. If you are really an addict, you need a neis. Period.
Love, Dov

The lack of a clear line is part of what makes this addiction more insidious than anything else. Where I am right now, I draw the line at "the rush". When I started though, I never could have drawn the line there. I think you need to just keep drawing the line further and further as you grow.

Ano Nymous,

I can relate to every word you say.  You're right on target, thank you!

I often wonder about the "rush of excitement".  I've been technically clean for almost 10 months and the transformation is incredible (I've been reading some of my old posts and can honestly say that I'm not holding there right now, I'm in a much higher place) however I am not cured!  I've become much more self aware and can identify the beginnings of the "rush of excitement" a mile away - on the street, reading "frum" books and stories (it's incredible how even material written specifically for the frum market can be a trigger).  Seeing it coming is a huge bracha and gives me time to think about how to react when the wave hits.  And I think of Chizuk e-mails and tips galore...but the wave still comes.  Sometimes my tactics work and I'm able to keep my head above water, other times it's tougher but the wave does eventually pass (at least it has so far, BE"H).  However I do not really know what to do and do not have a fool proof method that works every time.  I'd like to think that the 12 steps is the answer but have seen even 12 step veterans slip.  I think it's the indsiduous nature of this addiction - because a mere glance is a "drink" as per today's Chizuk e-mail, and it's a lot harder to have perfect control of your eyes than of what you put in your mouth (I believe this is true even for a true alcoholic since maintaining sobriety from alcohol has a clear defining line).

I'd love to hear your thoughts (and others too).

I agree...and wouldn't it be incredible if this site became the catalyst for the ultimate Kiddush Shaim Shomayim where all of us learned not only how to slip out of the menuval's grasp but also how to channel our powerful character traits to become like the Rogatchover!

But how??  In my experience, although a step by step approach is nice, organized and appealing to many (myself included), and it would be great to get the menuval out of our lives completely (phew, at least that's over with!  ) and then work on growth in Torah, in practice it can't work that way.  The way to accomplish step 1 is to work on step 2.  The more you talk about breaking an addiction to lust, and more lust, the more you end up talking about lust!  And that's just another one of the Y"H's tricks (please understand this in context - I do not mean that a 12 step "house cleaning" should not be done, etc).  What we need to so is talk about what "turns us on" in Torah.  Anyone?

Yes, I'm sure many of our Gedolim developed an addiction to Torah. (Think of the "Rogatchover" whose wife had to help him put on his coat for his son's wedding, and while his arm got stuck for a second while putting it on, he groaned "Tzar gidul banim").

And I think that "Chasid", who claimed yesterday that he is addicted to finishing every single news article in every newspaper until the end - even if it doesn't interest him, he has tremendous potential to change and channel this addiction of his into a real addiction for Torah!! Imagine not being able to put down the sefer until you finish all the teshuvos :-)

The only time an addiction becomes bad, is if it interferes with things that the TORAH itself expects us to prioritize over learning... such as: Family, Chinuch, Shabbos, Teffilah, Parnassa, etc... (each person in their situation).