hello heilge tzaddik
look up first or hachaim hakadosh in parshas re-eh

if you need help with the psat let me know

also or hachaim hakadosh in parshas ki savo in the parsha of bikkurim /viddui masser the or hachaim says clearly that if  one were to taste the sweetness of TORAH he would become MISHTAG-IN = crazy over it or maybe ADDICTED???
and ALL pleasures of the world would have no value to him

THE HEILIGE BARDICHEVER RUV ZECHER TZADDIK LIVRACHA ZICHUSOI YAGEN ALEINU woul do mitzvos with such zeal when he ate lechem mishna people who ate the finest foods in the world would CRY when the saw how much ENJOYMENT the REBBE had from lechem mishnah that they never reached this enjoyment.

THe  HEILIGE BARDICHEVER once heard in his day of a certain gentile nobleman who was totally pampered in luxury he would swim in champagne ,he would go skiing in the summer on a mountain of sugar,Said the HEILIGE BARDICHEVER achh he never enjoyed life he never TZINDED CHANUKAH LICHT!!!

enjoy life!!!
bardichev 

It depends how you define stimulating.... The pics are more stimulating to the growth of your disease, that's for sure. But the handbook is stimulating to your recovery! So take your pick  




Not good. Although, yes, the filter is our "Heker" not foolproof, it still has to be a GOOD Heker. Having a way around the filter with just a few clicks of the mouse is not good enough if we want to really start to heal. We highly suggest either upgrading to a BETTER filter, or getting accountability software. That can help A LOT. See this page for some great ideas... One guy on this forum set up x3watch.com and is using ME as his accountability sponsor. He had only one slip in the last few months - and BOY was he ashamed. I saw every site he went to! This is really helpful and helps us internalize the concept of "Aiyin Royeh" - that Hashem is always watching. Since Hashem is "abstract" and it's hard to feel "fear of heaven" when under the spell of addiction, a real live person makes it all the more "real" to our minds of flesh and blood.




Amazing! You are bashing the Sitra achra. Slam BAM. Pretty soon he'll be down for the count.




Ah, that's the big question  :D ... It all starts with the WILL to let go of lust, after recognizing it as a poison that is destroying our lives... Please see the SA pamphlet called "Why stop lusting?" over here.

Momo, this is fantastic. You are the first one to be working through the handbooks so systematically. And so, I will make you a deal. If you finish working through the tools with us here, I hereby declare that this board of the forum will forever be remembered as "Momo's Board".

May Hashem take you from strength to strength!

Jack, you're right on target.  The root cause is emotional, lack of feeling (ANY feeling) and lack of connection to the real world.  You wrote the answer:




The way to do this is to be aware.  Take your emotional pulse all day long.  Try to do it as often as you can, sometimes every minute.  Be aware of how you feel, where you are, what you're doing.  Imagine, if you do this, never again will a Tefillah pass without Kavana.  You're in shul, you're davening to the creator of the world!  When you're on the street, how do you feel?  Are you content or is there some vague uneasy feeling in the pit of your stomach?  Why is it there?  Does it make sense?  Are you doing anything wrong?  Are you alive, healthy, doing what you should be doing?  If you think about this and the answers are yes there's an uneasy feeling there BUT I'm alive and healthy, doing nothing wrong and in fact going about a perfectly normal daily existence then you realize that the feeling is unwarranted.  In fact, you have every reason to be happy!  That simple awareness MAKES IT SO!  Suddenly you're happy and content, for that minute at least.  Do it again and again.  Live in the moment.  Hold your head up high, you have nothing to hide.  You can talk to people about what's REALLY going on, because what's really going on is NORMAL LIFE.

One tiny example that I've noticed after working on this.  My wife wants to know when to expect me home after work.  It's a perfectly reasonable question but used to make me freeze up for no reason.  I'd get irritated by this until it became a joke (luckily my wife took it this way) - oh no, she asked me when I'm coming home!!  Ahhhhhh!!!  When I did answer, I often felt the need to exaggerate, just a little, about how soon I would be leaving or, if I'd already left, how soon I'd be home.  Needless to say, I always fell short!  Sure, if there was zero traffic and if everything worked to perfection, I could make it.  But that's very unlikely.  So I'd always come home later than my self imposed deadline, understandably all stressed out.  WHY DO THIS???  The question is perfectly reasonable, my wife is very reasonable, there was no deadline except in my head and no reason for stress.  I WAS DOING NOTHING WRONG and letting no one down by being 100% honest.  As soon as I was aware of this, the problem went away (mostly - I'm still working on it).  Awareness, honesty, openness...these are important keys to emotional health.

BH I am up to 11 days. Yesterday I was feeling depressed and I actually felt a pull to lock myself in a room and act out. It was the first time since I started posting that I had this Tayvah. It was also the first time that I felt a connection between depression and my addiction. I know that this is written about alot, but I guess I never paid attention. Being able to understand what was motivating me was very helpful for me because I understood the logical sequence of events and I was able to project to the future what would happen if I acted out. Because of everything that I had read on this site, I was able to realize that I would be much worse off if I caved in to the YH. If I fortify my realization that I am not actually driven solely by desire but rather using the lust to resolve a diferent issue, it is easier for me to take an honest look and decide whether my actions are really going to help me in the long run.

Today is day 64 BH. Yesterday was extremely difficult for me. Not so much from a temptation standpoint, rather the underlying causes, that in the past would have made me lock the door and head for the cesspool, were back with a vengeance.  The discontent, the boredom, the resentments are no less "triggers" for me then immoral sights. I know with every fiber of my being that until I address what for me is the root of the addiction its only a matter of time until I....

ok - here's the dope. some of this is from michelle, some of this is from my other experiences with therapy, and some of it is just my own thinking. What purpose does addiction serve? Because we wouldn't do it if it didn't serve a purpose. I guess you could say 'ayn adam chotay vlo lo'. Addictions serve to remove the necessity for us to feel reality, because reality for people with emotional problems is too difficult to deal with - so we obsess, we do things repetetively - over and over, we dont have to feel, we dont have to feel anything. In extreme cases, a difficult reality may lead to suicide. We have to learn how to feel again - so we dont need the addictions anymore. In my humble opinion, ALL 12-13 year olds are emotionally weak and can be formed very easily by their environment - that's why it's so important for a kid to have the right environment. If a 12 year old kid from the home of the godol hador sees a porn mag, you think he'll throw it in the garbage? Maybe - there are no 100 percent rules about anything. But usually he will devour it. That's why the age of the ben sorer umoreh is so important - we can tell from that age what will be in the future. If it is not dealt with at an early age, the emotional problems stick with us into adulthood, and we need ways to deal with it. Unfortunately, addictions is one of the ways. So there are all types of anonymous groups - debtors anonymous, AA, OA, EDA (eating disorders anonymous), you name it - and it's there. You want to come up with another one - drawing-on-the-wall-with-a-crayon anonymous. You know, eating can be an obsession not only through over-eating, there is also LACK of eating - this, too, is an addiction and an obsession. Some people won't eat one raisin because they think they're too fat. Emotionally healthy people DO NOT NEED addictions or obsessions. They will see a porn mag and throw it right in the garbage and say - 'TRASH!' Or they will enjoy their food without feeling guilty. Yes, there are people like that. At 11 or 12 years old is the last time we have control over our kids - after that, you better hope you gave them the right stuff, because if not, all sorts of things can happen, rachmana litzlan. Most addictions start at 12-13 years old, you think this is a coincidence? So what to do? Along comes AA and ingeniously sets up a system to help people deal with their addictions in the most brilliant way imaginable - it's nothing less than a stroke of genius. Anonymous group support, a system of steps. Where else can you find complete strangers coming into a room with people they never saw before and unleash their most secret of secrets? And break down in tears in front of total strangers? For the first time in their life, they have a safe atmosphere, where they will not be judged, where they can be understood by people who are going through the same thing they are. Because people who are 'emotionally healthy' can not understand people who are not. Even therapists who are not trained in addictions have no clue about addicitve behaviors. I should know, I tried. Michelle Rapapport is the therapist from Tennessee who introduced me to the 90 day concept on the phone call about 9 months ago. The 90 day concept has become the centerpiece of this forum. We have to thank Elya K. for asking her to be the guest group leader on that call. It was on that call that I took it upon myself to try the 90 days. And you want to know something? It works. It works if you work it, so keep coming back. Go to meetings, open up there, get a sponsor, you'll only be helping yourself and your family. The 12 steps are ingenious. Your life may be on the line. You think I'm over-dramatizing? You think people can't die from addictions? Just get caught with a prostitute when the criminals come in to rob her. If you're there, you'll get it too. There are people on this forum who got caught, and their lives are not the same. There was a story with a bays yakov girl who had to marry the person she was baby-sitting for because he got her pregnant - an 18 year old girl with a 40 year old man! And he had to get divorced from his first wife. (Guard, is that the way it went?) And some people are lucky, and never got caught. Which group do YOU want to belong to? Sometimes an understanding wife may be a problem, because it doesn't let the person hit bottom (so says Rabbi Twersky in 'Addicitive Thinking'). Try anorexia - you think this can't lead to death? Or bulemia, throwing up food, it can tear your esophagus and you can bleed to death. I'm sorry for saying these things, but the rashi in achrei mos speaks to us - the first rashi about nadav and avihus' deaths. This is d--- serious, folks.

HAHA Emes,
I feel the exact same way about shidduchim, even though I am single and am not going to be dating for a nice amount of time. I'm great on paper, but a batter who was 5/5 against a particular pitcher still may strike out against that pitcher the next time...
I guess the paper doesn't mean too much when you actually have to perform. I just realized that we can apply that to the addiction as well. Sometimes we are tempted to think that we will CERTAINLY fall because we have so many times in the past. Instead we should be like that pitcher. Even though the batter he is facing may be 5/5 or 10/10 against him in the past, he is still completely confident that he can strike him out. That's my baseball vort of the day. Hope you enjoyed :D

Hi Everyone.
While I definitely agree with Aaron that we all have a lot in common and of course we're allways here for each other, I also agree with R. Guard and Yaakov that it's important to realize the differences.

When I was a bochur I smoked for quite a number of years. The reason why I started smoking (weather you believe me or not) is because I thought it would be a good way to calm my nerves. When it was time to look for a shiduch my mother told me that I had better stop smoking because good girls don't like it. At that time I was smoking two packs a day. I cut down steadily for 8 weeks until I was down to one cigarete every three days and then I just stopped.
Being that the only kind of smoking addiction I had was the chemical/neurological addiction it was quite simple to stop with a bit of willpower. Had I had an addictive personality it would have been very different.

Yaakov, don't you agree that if the problem was really the Dopamine, then all we would have to do is wean ourselves of it slowly. Obviously the problem is that we become dependent on it psychologicaly. So what's the difference if we are dependant on dopamine or on overspending. Either way the problem is psychological and not really neurological.




I also have a theory. Lust is a total and immediate escape from the real world. Perhaps a powerful drug could compare. But alcohol doesn't work nearly as fast. On the other hand food addiction and over spending don't give a complete escape at all. They're just a bit of a distraction. There's no way they can take the place of lust addiction. But if someone has an addictive personality, then I guess they would be vulnerable to any sort of addiction.

to all the singles out there:
if you think r' guard was making it up when he said that being single is easier, take it from me - he's right! because i daven and learn BETTER when my wife is unavailable. when she's available, all i can think of is when the next time we'll be together.it consumes me.so - for us addicts, being single is actually easier to give up the addiction! so do it now, while it's easier. guard was right again! jack

guardureyes wrote on 09 Jun 2009 13:39:


I know a Yid in SA recovery with many years continuos sobriety, he has told me many times that he does Daf Yomi on the SA white book and the AA Big Book, and never misses a day, and I now thank you R' Guard for reminding me of this, every time I read and re-read the recovery literature it takes on a new meaning depending on what is going on in my life if I am struggling there will be a piece of chizuk for me and if I am in a good place there will be something to read to help me progress in my ruchniyos.  Also addictions (as has been said on this forum) are forgetting diseases, I need to constantly read that there is nothing out there but misery, hell and suffering, I also need to constantly remind myself the tools of recovery so that they become second nature and when I struggle I will not become overwhelmes.

Thank you for reminding me of a major tool of recovery to read and read.

London

I hit Post before reading London's latest post.  Obviously we all have different experiences and I can certainly understand the other view.  I will keep it in mind and watch out for creeping addictions.  London, Boruch and anyone else who has experienced multiple addictions, these distinctions are minor, and with lust they're non-existent.  We're all in the same boat and are here for each other! 

I think R' Twerski was comparing lust to food only in the sense that both are necessary (as can be seen from the Gemara) and therefore a careful, nuanced approach must be used to deal with it with no shortcuts.  I don't think it's a gizeirah shavah that can be used to apply ALL aspects of food addiction to lust addiction    Just my opinion.

Thanks for all the replies.

I can only talk for myself, for me my lust addiction is an addiction in every sense of the word, on the 20 questions from SA I answered yes to 19 of them, my addiction stopped short of getting arrested.  Now that I am abstaining from lust, I notice that when I get into difficult or anxious situations, I have a craving for food, I have always been an overeater, but it is now more apparent.  My therapist has told me that unless I put down my all addictions true serenity will always elude me.  The same chemical process taking place in my brain when I look at porn or masturbate take place when I eat chocolate or spend money I do not have.

I relate to what R' Guard writes from R' Twersky, food, money and sex are all natural G-d given drives, what I have done as an addict is take this natural drives and abuse them until they control me.  I do not believe there is a natural drive for drugs or alcohol which is why these 3 are so hard to put down.  That said, there are people who may have stronger urges / taivos for lust and have not crossed the line of addiction.

I really relate to what Boruch writes, and I guess there is a part of me that is in denial about my food and money issues, because when I act out with porn and masturbation, the consequences are there to see, it ruins my marriage and is in major conflict with my religion, but when I overeat or spend money, the consequences take far longer to set in.  Also with lust, there is a constant battle of lust triggers that I encounter in my daily life, that I do not with food or money.

That’s why I posted this question, as I believe that until I put down all my addictive processes, I will always struggle with lust, and wanted to hear other peoples experience too in overcoming this problem.

Thanks for listening,

London

I am glad we can have an honest and open discussion without anyone feeling bad. I am happy that Ykv and Ahron feel free to disagree with me  :D. That's how we all learn from each other...

I don't know if this is directly related to the discussion, but it seems to be somehow - so I want to quote it... Rabbi Twerski once answered Ahron:

Lust addiction, in contrast to alcohol and drug addiction, is more like food addiction. One can do without alcohol or drugs, but one cannot do without food. Similarly, there is a need for a healthy sexual drive in marriage.

The Talmud relates that the sages "captured" the yetzer hara and imprisoned it. The next day one could not find an egg on the market, so they had to release the yetzer hara. Inasmuch as the yetzer hara is the source for healthy sexual drive, it cannot be eliminated.

The ultimate solution is for a person to work hard on increasing one's yiras shamayim and praying for siyata dishmaya. There are no short cuts.

Shabbat Shalom
Twerski

While I can understand similarities between addictions (after all, nearly all addictions including lust are being successfully treated by methods developed for alcoholics and I can see many parallels from my own experience), I have to side with Ykv that lust addiction is not necessarily indicative of an addictive personality and that the tendency to switch addictions may not always apply to a lust addict in recovery.  I say this from experience, now here's an untested theory as to why.  Unlike alcohol or eating which occur in public and are part of an addicts outward life (regardless of the psychology), lust is a private affair, an internal disease.  This is why life does not necessarily become unmanageable - outward life continues, it's the inside that's affected.  Once recovery begins and the inside begins to heal, there is no urge to act out on the outside.  That was never the problem and will not fill the void.  If someone does have an addictive personality however, lust can certainly be one of the addictions used to "feed the need" but I believe you'll find it is NOT the first addiction but more likely the second or third.  If it's the first one, it can stand on it's own.