Hi JD, Welcome to our posting community.  I am the admin of this forum. You have come to the right place. You did a good move by posting your story, you'll get lots of good advice and support. I am sorry to hear about your wife. This is no simple "package" that Hashem has given you. BUt he surely chose carefully to whom to give difficult jobs. He trusts you.

You are not a FRAUD in your Yiddishkeit. You just have a disease, like we all did here.

There are two prerequisites to beginning to heal from this addiction. One is admitting you have a problem, and two is wanting to get help. You have already done both of those. Now comes step three, actually getting the help!

If you've read a little bit through this forum, I’m sure you'll quickly realize that you are not alone and that we get cries for help like yours many times a day, both by e-mail and on the forum.

You've been going through this cycle of addiction for a number of years already... I'm sure you've tried to get up many times, only to fall again. It doesn't matter that you may have managed to stay clean for longer periods here and there, it's the overall pattern that shows this is an addiction.

We could offer you lots of great Chizuk and advice right now, but it would last only a few days and then wear off. Instead, we want to help you in a way that will be much more effective and systematic.

We put a lot of effort into writing up handbooks that contain all the tools to breaking free of this addiction, in progressive order. These are tools that we in the GYE community have gathered together - through hundreds of people's experiences over the years. These tools can help anyone, no matter what stage of addiction they might be at. Whether someone is just struggling a little, or whether they have tried countless times to break free with all types of advice and tricks, these handbook will be able to guide them on the right path. (See below for links to the handbooks).

By reading the handbooks and exploring what tools you've tried and which you haven't - we can work together and discuss a battle plan for you (along with the others on the forum) step by step, tool by tool. This will give us a clear "Framework" to work in, and will help you make progress, slowly but surely for the long term - and not just some "great" advice that will quickly fade away...

We are here for you, and we will do our very best to offer chizuk and advice and help you along for as long as it takes, but let's do it within a systematic framework so that the progress can be outlined and mapped, and you will finally be able to break free of this endless cycle of addiction...

Please right click on the links below and select "Save Link/Target As" to download the handbooks to your computer.

1) The GuardYourEyes Handbook
This Handbook details 18 suggested tools and techniques, in progressive order, beginning with the most basic and fundamental approaches to dealing with this addiction, and continuing down through increasingly earnest and powerful methods. For the first time, we can gauge our level of addiction and find the appropriate tools for our particular situation. And no matter what level our addiction may have advanced to, we will be able to find the right tools to break free in this handbook!

2) The GuardYourEyes Attitude
The Attitude Handbook details 30 basic principles to help us maintain the proper attitude and perspective on this struggle. Here are some examples: Understanding what we are up against, what it is that Hashem wants from us, how we can use this struggle for tremendous growth, how we can deal with bad thoughts, discovering how to redirect the power of our souls, understanding that every little bit counts, learning how to bounce back up after a fall, and so on and so forth...

Obviously though, just reading the handbooks alone won't be enough. They don't have "magical" words in them . They simply lay down the tools before you, so that you can use those tools with careful thought, patience and determination. Very quickly you will come to see and believe that it CAN BE DONE!

Rabbi Twerski always says that this illness is like a spiritual cancer. And what will a person not do to get better from cancer? Nothing should stand in his way! To recover from this illness, we have to be ready to put in at least as much time as we spent acting out...

Read the PDF files linked above, as well as the tips on our website and FAQ pages, and read through the threads on this forum and through the archives of past Chizuk e-mails sent out.

The underlying secret to the success of so many people on our website, is that we learn to stop fighting the lust head-on. It is too strong for us to overpower alone. Instead, we learn how to give over the fight to Hashem, and how to side-step the lust, using carefully thought out techniques, boundaries and fences. To this end, a good internet filter is a very important first step. Please see this page for many great filter options. And I can hold the password for you. See this page for how to do it!

May Hashem be with you!

Hay, great post! Thank you for the reminders and chizzuk, reb aaron. The clear way you put everything is a gift. I was also dead. Things went very slowly for me in Torah/avoda at first but picked up later on. The road of my avodah was rocky for a few years. It is lightyears better now, though far from perfection. (I'll get specific if you request it.) I do not believe it had to take me that long, but I didn't reach out until things got unbearable, a typical pattern for me! Anyhow, Please, please learn how to take it easy. It is actually hubris to expect everything to spiritually click as soon as you start to get healthy, let alone Torah itself: the holiest stuff, da'as haborei! It would also imply a person is turning his back on the extent of his former illness when he acts as though he can get significantly better so fast, no? You may actually need to hold back just a bit at a few rikkudim (I know some won't hear of it!!), or change your limud expectations to mikra and mishna instead of gemora and mussar. As for me early on in recovery, if I had gone right to the same limudim that I was trying to "make it in" during my worst acting out years, the dejection would have been crippling. Maybe that's where you are? Don't stay there, brother.                                
The Sfas Emes explains: Yir'u es Hashem kedoshov, ki ayn machsor lireyav: Sometimes, for attaining yir'as Hashem (and certainly sobriety and recovery is the primary haychee timza especially for an early-recovering addict!) a yid (yes, a kodosh like you) needs to forgo an aspect of learning he really desires. Don't fear, ki ayn machsor lirayav!: you will not miss out on an iota of Torah at all, in the end. Hashem will make it up for you, or whatever. So, go ahead and do whatever it takes to keep the focus on yiras Hashem, not on your own picture of what your avodah needs to be.
Does this help?
PS. On a slightly different tack, if you can handle it (or modify it to use it)
Reb Tzvi meyer writes a lot about a yesod that the Torah you learn w/o any ta'am serves you later on as the ikkar source of power in your days of aliyah. I am sure others here can elaborate on that better than I.

Although B”H my struggle is not as painful as that of Dov or London, I can nonetheless understand and relate to the way they (and Guard) describe the role played by the 12 steps in their recovery and can appreciate how it does not detract C”V one iota from Torah.  I think the reason why this is so hard to grasp is that it seems like the 12 steps are competing because their goal is a “spiritual awakening” and an awareness of G-d which is also the goal of a Jew living a Torah life.  The answer is, as Guard noted, one (the 12 steps) precedes the other (Torah).  Hold it BARDICHEV (you deserve the capital letters), it does not have to work that way, it does not mean that the answer is not in the Torah C”V, but on a practical level, it’s difficult to pull together the SIMPLE RECOGNITION of Hashem required by the steps from more complex Torah sources.  It’s simply more hidden and difficult to access, particularly when in the throes of the addiction.  The obstacle to using Torah sources is simple and practical - you cannot relate to Torah properly – you’re running before you can walk.  This idea has been stated many times (Dov’s bicycle vs. an 18 wheeler, Boruch’s building from the foundation, etc).

In fact, although lately I seem to just agree and “second” other posts, I think I can add a little twist here, along with a question from my own struggle relating precisely to this line between being a human being and being a Torah Jew, and perhaps someone has a suggestion.

Before my recovery began almost 11 months ago, I was emotionally DEAD.  Although I learned Torah, I did not relate to it, I did not really relate to anything.  I felt disconnected from life and could mimic but not experience it the way others did.  My recovery has been, at times, pure, unadulterated bliss!  I can feel for the first time!  I’m like a drunk with a bottle except that this is a GOOD bottle, I cannot get enough of being emotionally ALIVE.  It’s a new toy for me, and one of my first goals it to connect for the first time to Torah and Hashem.  So I’m at the line, and here’s the question as I search for more and more for fulfillment from Torah.  This site is a great source of inspiration, chizuk and mussar and I’ve been learning and listening to shiurim on hashkafa and mussar offline as well.  I find that my heart is filled with the desire to do the ratzon haboray, and since talmud Torah k’neged kulam, I am drawn to learning.  However that’s when I hit a BRICK WALL.  Friends, I can open a sefer but within minutes, my mind wanders.  Even if it doesn’t go places it shouldn’t, nonetheless, it’s not on learning.  If I do manage to learn for 5 minutes, I can’t remember a thing.  I’ve forgotten the ideas I learned in minute 1 by the time I get to minute 5.  Since everything is connected, I have to start again.  And again.  It just won’t penetrate or stick!!  B”H I am not learning disabled and generally have a good memory and skill set for learning.  Can any or you relate to this?  What has worked for you?

JD wrote on 17 Jun 2009 14:57:


JD

Well done for posting, I just want to share that I really relate to what you are going through and compliment you on being honest on such a difficult and private subject.  What you are sharing is exactly how my first six years of marriage were (I am now married over 10 years), we tried all sorts of things and even went to speak to Rabbonim who were very helpful in trying to help one suggested my wife drinking wine beforehand to relax another suggested taking painkillers.  We went to Doctors too but nothing helped.

However four or so years ago I started to get sober and work on my sex addiction, I would state that 10 years ago when I got married there was no internet and if I wanted to act out I had to go and buy the stuff and my acting out more sporadic until the day we got the internet at home.  Anyway, I noticed that our intimate life seemed to recover with my sobriety.  For me I feel that my wife knew or sensed deep down even when we first got married that something was amiss with me, even if consciously she could not express it.  And her subconscious was protecting her by not allowing us to be intimate.  Conversely  I know that when I am active in any level of sex addiction I find it impossible to intimate with my wife as I am addicted to lust to the unreal to the forbidden to the fantasy and my wife is real and the two cannot coexist.

My experience is that my wife always knows intuitively when I act out, I give of a vibe of shame, guilt and disgust, now she knows whats happened and will confront me, but before I came into recovery she had no idea what was going on, living with an addict is like trying to live with a whirlwind, and my wife was extremely frustrated and had no idea why.  The nature of this addiction is bound to mess one’s intimate life up no end.  Maybe one day I will share about my experiance of abstinence within marriage to get over lust.

So dear JD, this is my experience is that acting out affects one on so many levels and seeps into every fibre of my essence and only with sobriety will life start to turn around.  Hang in there my friend recovery is possible, keep things simple, and as they say first things first, stay sober for 24 hours at a time and the answers will come.

berdichev, that is really beutiful and that's what makes this forum so special, being an addict has become a source of pride. one can say," I am an adict and fighting!" that is the yesod of this site. Lately with the warm weather around. things have been getting difficult. i tried once keeping my eyes on the ground all the time but it just isn't easy. I start to get dizzy as the ground moves under me. So i bounce my eyes away and then I hit another one. taking off the glasses is not an option while driving. Any ideas, anyone?

Hey Bruce

Keep it up, one day at a time, the road of my journey has not been smooth, and I have slipped and fallen many times, however each time I get back up as keep on going as I know that a life of active addiction is no life it's a depraved existance.  So I wish you well and do what ever it takes to stay sober one day at a time.

Hey everyone,

I know there arent many people following my thread but it feels good anyway to write out my feelings on thses attitude principals. I suggest it to anyone thats thinking about it. B'H I completed my 7th day and ui think i get to move up t a different level or somehing on the chart list. I'm on day 8 right now, but the past couple of days have been tough with my Shmiras Einayim. Thats something I really got to work on I think if I want to completely heal. So here are today's attitude principals.

Principal #6
The concept of Bechirah Chofshis, free will, is a topic that is usually agreed upon throughout Judaism. We contrlo our actions. Therefore, we are responsible for every action we take. I would agree with that, but lessen it to say that sometimes we really dont control our actions. SOmetimes the Yetzer Hara controls us and although we might have the power to stop the Yetzer Hara, the natural tendency of our mind is to do what he wants us to do. It takes quite a strong person to fight the yezter Hara (hence from the Mishna in Avos), but we cant look back on these falls in the past and mourn our downfalls. We must learn from the past experiences in order to prevent further damage in the future. Hashem put us where we are today and we can control where we go. Sometimes I think about C'V a terrorist. How could someone go into a Yeshiva and start shooting at innocent Talmidim who are Osek in Toarh and Mitzvos. I come to the comclusion that these terrorists do not have free will. They act in the way Hashem wants them to act. And you are going to ask why would Hashem want to take the lives of innocent talmidim who are doing exactly what he wants? I cant answer that directly, but hashem has a plan and trying to understand it might bring you further away from him. Then you might ask why did hashem do it through a terrorist, Hahsme could have made it a natural death? The best answer I can give (excluding the one given to the previous question) is that just look at the response of the Jewish people to tragedy. We have a grat history of responding to these sort of things in a positive way. I know it looks like I just went completely off topic, but the same can apply to our situations. Hashem brought us into our situations by allowing the "terrorist" to enter our minds and bodies we truly could not control that. But let us not look at how it got into our minds, let's look to see how we react and will react to similar situations. There is an amazing shiur by Rabbi Yisroel Reisman which I highly recommend to everyone. Whether you struggle with this or not. The link to it is in the Attitude Handbook.

Principal #7
Determination is a key to our Be'ezras Hashem eventual recovery. You have to want it and make yourself believe you want it. The addiction does not alter our determination. Yes, it is a disease and if you act out its not completely free will, but that should not effect your Ratzon. Build up your ratzon to get rid of this addiction and soon determination will take over the addiction. If you really dont want it then there are other thinggs that need to be worked on first, but if you really truly want to rid your body and mind of this disease then eventually all the pieces will fall into place. But dont trick yourself into thinking you really want it when you really dont becaus ethen the Yetzer Hara will catch you off guard.

Just remember to watch where your eyes go and dont go where your eyes watch.
"Ve'lo Sasuru Acharei Levavchem Ve'acharei Aneicem Asher Atem Zonim Achareichem."

Evryone have a great day!

Hi everyone,
I've been away from this for a week since I've been posting here. If you have been following my working through the GYE handbooks (rehab-my-site.com/guardureyes/forum/index.php?topic=536.0) , you'd know that after having gone through tools 1-6 of the handbook, and all of the attitude book, I summarized what I felt were the basic "commandments" I need to follow to break my addiction. Here they are:

Commandment #1: Fill my day with chizuk
Today I'll read through the GYE handbook when taking breaks at work instead of surfing around. I'll read and responses to other people's posts and to my posts, and get chizuk from them.

Commandment #2: Remind myself of my addiction
I am addicted to lust and it overtakes my life if I don't try to control it, and that I can't control it all by myself.

Commandment #3: Strengthen my belief in Hashem
I believe in Hashem who will help me with my battle. I also have a circle of friends here on this forum who are helping me.

Commandment #4: Make Hashem's will my will
   * In matters of anger and control: I believe that Hashem controls the world and it's outcome. Therefore, I will try today not to get angry when something happens against my will. I have a natural tendency to want to control my life, my environment, and other people's lives. I will try to learn to stop fighting and let You, Hashem, run the world the way You see fit. I need to learn to accept myself and others.
   * I matters of lust: While I will try today not to give in to any of my desires that are against Hashem's will, however, Hashem, You are only one who can relieve my addiction. Please take it away from me!

Commandment #5: Remind myself why I must remove lust from myself
I have to stop lustful emotions as soon as they start by reminding myself that I WANT to let myself go of the lust, because of the following:
   * Pleasure is fleeting, false fulfillment, and cuts me off from the world and doesn’t let me feel the tremendous kindness of Hashem, doesn't bind me to the goodness in the world, makes me lose appreciation for my wife and children and be unable to find inner peace.  I remain closed up within a shell.
   * Happiness is ever-lasting, real fulfillment, reconnects me to the world, makes me feel the tremendous kindness of Hashem, see the goodness in the world, helps me gain appreciation my wife and children, and find inner peace.

Commandment #6: Break up the day, be happy
Today I'll be happy. I'll break the day into 3 segments: morning (when I wake up until lunch), afternoon (lunch until I get home), and night (when I get home until I wake up). For every hour, and especially after every segment I stay clean, I will be happy about it.

Commandment #7: Guard my eyes
Today I'll guard my eyes in the office and on the street. I will use my filters to guard my eyes on the internet. When I feel weak, I'll try to read from the GYE handbook instead of trying to bypass my filters.

Commandment #8: Make fences
   * Today I'll not touch myself.
   * Today, when I feel like acting out, I won't. I'll wait 10 minutes, sitting or walking around if need be, and by then the lust will have passed.

Commandment #9: Doven better
Today I will direct my energy and spiritual vigor into my prayers. Today I'll focus on davening with more kavana.

Commandment #10: Love, not lust
Today I will treat my wife with love, not as an object of lust.  I will work on understanding and living the difference between love and lust.

----------------------------------
Well, last night, I'm disappointed to say that I fell. I fell because I broke commandments 7 and 8. I fell because I started looking where I wasn't supposed to, and then touched where I wasn't supposed to, and then didn't use the 10 minute cooling off period. Although I have a filter at work, I don't have one at home. I have been kidding myself that I don't need one since I hardly log on at home anymore. Well, last night I logged on. Believe it or not, I actually didn't fall by going to a p**n site, rather I found an attractive photo of an attractive woman on Facebook.

Last night taught me the following:
1. I have to cancel my Facebook account. It's really a wast of time anyway. The only reason I've been keeping the account is to see what's new in my friend's lives, see new photos of their kids, and have all of their email addresses in one spot. So I'll be "out of the loop". I'll miss someone's birthday. I'll miss a cute photo of a kid smiling. It's NOT worth it if it's going to trigger me to fall. I'm too sick to be on Facebook.
How ironic, that in the heat of passion I forgot the halachot I posted just yesterday, especially the last one:
- It is forbidden to look at a woman if she is dressed immodestly.
- If we know of an area where immodestly dressed women are present, it is forbidden to enter this area.
- It is forbidden to have thoughts of desire for any woman.
- It is forbidden to derive pleasure from looking at the beauty of a woman, even if she is modestly dressed.

2. I have to explain to my wife the extent of my addiction, and convince her that I need to install a filter on the home computer, even thought she uses it too and it will inconvenience her.

---------------------------
I also learned a number of positive things:

- Even though my last clean streak was "only" 6.5 days, it felt like a long time since I was really battling it out. I felt that I really advanced in my overall war with the Y"H, and even though it's disappointing I lost one battle last night, I won many battles over the past 6.5 days. I've been thinking that it's a good idea not just to count how many clean days we have in between falls, but why not count also how many times we beat the Y"H!

- If I stick to my "commandments", I don't think I'll fall again. I really think that they are doable too, as long as I stick with them!

- I would have never written my "10 commandments" had I not fallen in the past (of course, you could argue that I wouldn't have had a need to). Also, I wouldn't be committed to deleting my Facebook account and installing a filter on my home computer had I not fallen last night. So I'm starting to understand how we can use falls to raise us up to the next level, as long as we don't allow the fall to drag us down, but rather to motivate us to gather our strength and move upward. If we use falls to raise to the next level, it's easy to understand how our sins turn into mitzvot, since the sin motivated us to do another mitzva. This is a concept that was hard for me to understand in the past. I'm beginning to understand it now.

guardureyes wrote on 16 Jun 2009 14:55:


Guard, thanks for your kind words and email to me.  I know from my past experiance and from others that my addiction / acting out is only a symptom of the problem.  I do not know how to deal with daily living as Boruch has so profoundly shared too I have issues with money and weight, and find it very easy to get overwhelmed 90% of the time the tools of the program work for me the other 10% of the time I choose not to work them.  I am discussing now with my therapist and sponsor doing 90 meetings in 90 days (90 & 90) this is known to be one of the most effective tools to get recovery back on the front burner, and to give me a chance to deal with my daily living so working a combination of programs.  A bit similar to the WOH but for me on a very strong dose.

On a practicle level I have agreed with my wife that by the end of the week I will have re-instated my filter and give you the passwords.

Thanks for being there for me.
London

*disclaimer LONDON and DOV I wrote this while you were writng to me*

THANKS FOR THE RESPECT IT IS DEFINATELY NOT DUE TO ME .I FEEL LIKE I AM BEING GOREM MACHLOKES.

AGAIN I AM NOT IN DEBATING MODE I AM IN STATEMENT MODE(I know that is not very humble)

I ASK FOR A BIT OF PATIENCE PLEASE HEILIGER GUARD REB DOV LONDON PLEASE BE PATIENT(i re-read all your posts)

#1 I WILL NOT DEBATE THE MERITS OR THE DE-MERITS OF 12 STEPS .IF YOU READ MY POSTS I ALWAYS SAY I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND THEM ALL I READ UP ON THE BUT I NEVER WORKED THEM I WILL NOT PASKEN ON THEM.
#2 IF IT WORKS FOR YOU GREAT MORE THAN GREAT YOU NEED TO BE DANCING FROM SIMCHA AND YOU SHOULD ALL BE PROUD .MAYBE EVEN PROUDER THAN ME BECAUSE YOU WENT THROUGH HARDER STEPS BI-RABIM TO GET HEALED
I AM REALLY BEING HONEST YOUR OPENNESS AND EXPERIENCE IS REFRESHING ESPECIALLY ON A TOPIC WHICH IS STILL LIKE SHAA LETS TALK ABOUT THIS OUTSIDE ETC..

SO GET TO THE POINT bardichev!
THHE POINT IS SIMPLE TORAH IS NOT DEBATEABLE. TORAH IS.TORAH IS THE BLUE PRINT OF THE WORLD  .TORAH IS THE MEKOR (SOURCE) OF ALL  WISDOM. TORAH IS WHERE WE FIND THE CONCEPT OF SIN THE CONCEPT OF ADDICTION THE CONEPT OF TESHUVA

TWO THINGS PRECEDED THE WORLDS CREATION TORAH AND TESHUVA

BACK TO  MY POINT. THERE IS NO WHERE IN TORAH THAT SPELLS OUT A PROGRAM FOR TESHUVA OUR RISHONIM GIVE US  A FEW
JUST BY HAVING A PROGRAM WHICH IS NOT MENTIONED IN THE TORAH DOES NOT MAKE IT UNHOLY THER ARE MANY DIVREI  RESHUS WE DO THAT ARE NOT MENTIONED IN THE TORAH

BUT WHEN DO WE MUSTER UP THE CHUTZPAH TO SAY THE TORAH DOES NOT WORK?? ( I THINK I JUST SLIPPED INTO A DEBATE SORRY)

YES THE TORAH DOES NOT SPELL OUT AN ORGANIZED SYSTEM WITH SPONSORS AND MEETINGS AND HELPFUL TIPS ALL IN ONE PLACE .I AGREE BUT DOES THAT CH"V TAKE AWAY FROM TORAH?? ( YOISH AGAIN DEBATING THAT bardichev little sneak)
TORAH IS ANIYM BIMAKOM ECHAD AHIRIM BIMAKOM ACHER. FOR THIOS VERY REASON THAT WHEN SOMEONE LEARNS A DEEP SUGYA OF TUKFO KOHEN A FEW BLATT LATER THE TORAH WANTS HIM TO HEAR SOME DIVREI MUSSAR.

YOUR PROBLEM IS NOT WITH TORAH (ah bardichev is back in the groove being meilitztov on yiddin) YOUR PROBLEM IS AND IT IS MY PROBLEM AND IT IS THE PROBLEM WITH ALL THAT  RELATES TO INYANEI KEDUSHA .THE PROBLEM IS IT IS DIFFICULT TO TEACH ,ESPECIALLY BI-RABIM AND ESPECIALLY OUR RABBIS (FOR BETTER OR WORSE) HAD NO CLUE AS HOW TO DEAL WITH THESE INYANIM AND IF THEY DID THEY DIDN'T COME ACROSS IN A NON-JUDGEMENTAL WAY.BUT THERe IS NOTHING THAT YOU WILL NOT FIND IN TORAH.

LETS TAKE ME FOR A CUTE LITTLE EXAMPLE I STRUGGLED WITH NISYONOS SINCE FIRST YEAR HIGHH SCHOOL.IT ONLY GOT WORSE AS I GOT OLDER.I HAVE RABBIEM FROM ALL ENDS OF THE SPECTRUM FROM THE KEDUHAS LEVI TO THE BAIS HALEVY AND I READ EVERY WORD IN LEV ELIYAHU AND ALMOST ALL OF IGROS CHAZON ISH AND STEPLER GAON TO ALMOST EVERY WORD OF NESIVAS SHALOM ETC.. AND I WAS STILL STRUGGLING
DOES THAT NEGATE THE KOACH OF TORAH CH"V IT IS ONLY TORAH THAT SAID bardichev keep on trucking!!!YOU WILL GET THERE

I GOT OFF TARGET IN A NUTSHELL
12 STEPS IS GOOD GEVALDIG A LIFESAVER YESS YESS YES NO QUESTIONS
TORAH IS LIFE
12 STEPS A LIFE SAVING PROGRAM CPR YES (YES LONDON I UNDERSTAND WHY A ROV CAN PASKEN TO CALL ON SHABBOS )
(BTW LONDON YOU ARE SOOO HOLY I CRY FROM TESHUVA EVERY TIME I READ YOUR POSTS)
TORAH IS LIFE TORAH IS THE ONLY ANTIDOTE TO Y"H

TALK ALL THE MERITS OF THE 12 STEPS .YOU SHOULD IT'S GOOD AND HEALTHY AND THE LAST TIME I CHECKED IT IS YOUR WEBSITE
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DON"T STEP ON THE HEILIGER TORAH

HASHIVEINU HASHEM EILECHE VINASHUVA CHADESH YAMEINU KIKEDEM!!!

very humble and yet very proud to be a  small part of this HEILIGER CHABURAH
BARDICHEV OOPS
bardichev

Dear bardichever,

No debate here, just questions from one yid to another.

I love you. Period. It is clear you feel the same way about everyone on this forum, too! What do you expect of me? To lie to you? All I know about recovery is what I have seen and/or experienced, like you. Like everybody. I tried to get better as a growing ben Torah but had no success, only got worse. I read breslov, yesod yosef, parts of Tanya (BTW, I knew about despising my temptations, etc.), and went to the mikvah before and after the tikun klali quite afew times, I wrote tefillos, cried, whatever. I wish I had "made it" through those methods 100%! I am not one to walk into a church building and sit with goyim, at all! But what can I do? This mostly gentile group of recovering perverts saved my life. I do feel like I have a higher calling - to be the eved Hashem I was meant to become. And to be an eesh emes at all, it is clear that I must remain part of SA and share what they gave me with other losers (against lust) like I am. If I stay honest, I stay alive to be an eved Hashem for another day.
And BTW, my mother was a prisoner in Auschwitz for >1yr and a subject of Dr Mengele y"s's experiments. She lost >60 family members, as did my father who was in the countryside building railroad tracks. Till I was about four, Daddy used to wake me up at night occasionally with his nightmares and screaming. Incidentally, my wife blames my addiction on Hitler, y"s. (I don't care whose fault it is because: Hey, IV'E GOT IT!)
So I give no credit for my sobriety to roman catholics, or any other race/religion. It just so happens that one of them happened to have the "aveida" i was looking for and handed it to me. As my brother, I ask you what do you wish me to do now but carry the message I've got?

This section may be of interest from the AA Big Book:

We are average Americans. All sections of this country and many of its occupations are represented, as well as many political, economic, social, and religious backgrounds. We are people who normally would not mix. But there exists among us a fellowship, a friendliness, and an understanding which is indescribably wonderful. We are like the passengers of a great liner the moment  after rescue from shipwreck when camaraderie, joyousness and democracy pervade the vessel from steerage to Captain’s table. Unlike the feelings of the ship’s passengers, however, our joy in escape from disaster does not subside as we go our individual ways. The feeling of having shared in a common peril is one element in the powerful cement which binds us. But that in itself would never have held us together as we are now joined.  The tremendous fact for every one of us is that we have discovered a common solution. We have a way out on which we can absolutely agree, and upon  which we can join in brotherly and harmonious action.

I would also like to share a story about my early recovery which only someone who has been through the fellowships will understand.  When I came into SA I would do well during the week and manage to stay sober till Shabbos, on Shabbos I would find that the thoughts, cravings would come into my head and would end up acting out on Shabbos normally by masturbating, at that time I was on the verge of using the internet on Shabbos too.  My sponsor at that time a devout roman catholic told me that in the Jewish religion it states that one is allowed to break Shabbos to save a life and surely my life is in danger by my acting out and therefore I should make calls on Shabbos, when I first heard this I could not accept this and kept on struggling, he encouraged me to ask my Rabbi but I was too embarrassed to at that time.  During this time I was introduced to a Rov from the States with many years experience in addiction, and I asked him what to do and he told me "my friend you are dying - and these are the excuses you are making" and I made call on Shabbos to save my life, my addiction has no respect for anything and if I am not in recovery there are no such things as boundaries I will break them all, I am ashamed to admit but I have used the internet on Shabbos too.  I know without a shadow of doubt that if I am not in a recovery program my future will be multiple relationships, crossing the gender line and drugs.  For me the 12 steps is my life line, sobriety is the foundation.  I believe with my entire essence that I am doing the right thing.  This my experience if I put anything in front of my addiction my addiction will wreck it, be it my Yiddishkeit, be it my wife and kids, my recovery has to come first in my life without exception, and this is why I am struggling so much as I constantly put work commitments, family commitments etc first and I am grateful that I have this forum to remind me of what I need to do to get back on track.

Dov and other people I have met in recovery has years of quality living that I crave,  how many years of sobriety do the people on this forum have without working the steps etc.  Come back to this thread in 12 / 24 months and then perhaps you can have a say on what works and what does not.  Dov & co have a proven track record.  Dov mentioned that frum yidden find it harder to get sober than goyim.  I will share that 2 years ago I was at an international SA convention in Greensboro and all the frum yidden got together to discuss this very point, and some startling points were raised, but the genral gist was that due to our Gemorah Kops we like to learn Rashi, Tosfos and all the Rishonim and Achronim on every suggestion that is made to us.  Recovery is a simple program for complicated people.  I do not always know what is best for me, and that’s why I listen to those people who have attained a quality life free of this filthy grime. 

Sigh.

What chazal say is true, Torah is a Tavlin. And it works in all circumstances. But only if one knows what Torah is. Torah is not just reading words. It is not just intellectual give and take. It is not just Halachos. It is RATZON HASHEM. It is HASHEM HIMSELF. But what does that help a dog? If a dog learned Torah would it make him a human?

If we are learning Torah on Shabbos while scratching a dog's head and smoking a cigarette (as some Masklim used to do), will the Torah enter into our souls and transform us? Will it be the Tavlin that Chazal meant?

Barditchev and Efsher. You are not letting mine and Dov's words into your heart. You are reading what we say in the wrong way. Re-read all the posts that Dov wrote on this thread again. But this time with an OPEN mind, not with a defensive attitude. And Try to understand what he is saying.

But even if you do this, I still do not know if you'll really get it. Not because Dov is better than you, but because you two never came close to the level of addiction that Dov and many other addicts reached. And you never experienced the 12-Step groups... So it's like trying to explain the color red to a man who was blind all his life.

Dear Pinteleh Yid:




and




Well. Here I go again. May this be of use to somebody:

My sponsor is Roman Catholic, I have had sponsees who were Frum yidden, goyim, totally unaffilliated Jews (sadly, some married to shiksa's), and have very close program friends who are mormons, etc. I hope that doesn't render me posul le'eidus... B"H they can all get sober and stay that way even though they are missing a big chunk of reality (the Torah). Living sober is a gift Hashem gives to everyone, like He gives air and water - "hoy kol tsomei lechu lamoyim!". Really. I guess I owe water, air (and cucumber sandwiches) my very life. B"H, I do not make breathing and eating the whole point of my life - it's just survival, not a madreiga. Don't get me wrong - I take breathing very, very seriously - dead seriously. But (as long as I am not having breathing trouble, r"l!!) it is certainly not the purpose of life. It shouldn't be. It, like sobriety, is perhaps the most essential heicha timza to whatever life I choose . Now, lets get into living! As a yid, "living right" is Torah, period. The Will of Hashem is expressed through it - what more could anyone want? Nevertheless, frum addicts ignore the Torah every time they act out, and can't stop. Then we get sober. As I am a yid who knows what the Torah is, in order for my relationship with Hashem to be honest I need to try and keep the Torah. If my relationships are not honest I will not succeed at sobriety, at all. No chatzitzas allowed in this mikvah! And, if I am not sober, I'll die. Kofoh alai ha'har kegigis? AA calls it Enlightened Self-interest. As recovering addicted yidden, we choose to extend survival to keeping the Torah because it is our third step. I hope that is somewhat clear. But please don't pretend that the only sober yid is a frum yid. Helping others get and stay sober is not kiruv. It is more akin to giving blood. ("No drunk ever got sober as a result of inspiration" -Chuck C.)

PS. Ask any sponsor in Brooklyn and they will likely report: being frum is not an asset when it comes to getting sober. We often have it much harder than goyim because of various reasons.

PSS. I agree that in some long-term way, all yidden desperately need to accept Hashem's will through the Torah whether they realize it, or not (as do all bnei noach, really). I believe in the "rotzeh anee" of the RMB"M...Nevertheless, it doesn't seem to actually work that way, as I have "testified" above. Maybe the actual ratzon Hashem for us as individuals is not that simple...vehameivin yovin.

Thank you all for the wonderful welcome back

guardureyes wrote on 16 Jun 2009 14:41:


Before I get into detail here is an introduction to my sponsor's message in the words of a man who was once a minister (no, not my sponsor). Here is my paraphrase (all italics are my own replacement so that it is relevant for us Frum Yidden, otherwise it's word-for-word from the original), and you can try and guess (if you want to) who this man is:

Impossible Happiness - The Good News for Lust and Sex Addicts and Other Sinners
Breaking the lust barrier has proven to be the great obstacle in recovery from sex addiction. Impossible Happiness shows the way for personal breakthrough for the lust/sex-addicted and others, in or out of the Frum Community or even 12 Step recovery movement. It helps one move from mere religious belief and practice to real recovery. Ploni tells the story of his encounter with the Eibishter, who was lost to him in his Yiddishkeit. Not for the fainthearted, Impossible Happiness opens the way to fulfilling what the Steps prepare the way for—finding the One our lust was really looking for.

This books takes up where Steps One through Ten leave off. Impossible Happiness chronicles the author’s odyssey from a religious “believism,” which did not work, to a personal encounter with the One who really does loose from the power of lust and cleanse its defilement. What emerges is a real relationship  for the lust obsessed, a Torah-true basis for making one’s own saving Connection—a faith that works.

From the Preface: “I am writing this book because sexual sobriety and victory over lust seem so difficult, if not impossible, for so many Frum Yidden, not to mention others. There’s something wrong here.

Also, so much of sobriety or attempted sobriety seems to be fear-driven and self-driven, which is doomed to failure. There is a better way. I want to bear witness to the fact that victory over lust can be energized by joy and love that come from a saving connection with the Eibishter. This is the Good News for all, whether in or out of the Frum Community or Twelve Step recovery movement. . . .”

So who was the man who said these words (except for the italics)? (answer coming later BE"H together with a major maaseh)