I was just thinking that in this parsha, Yakov stayed alone and suddenly the angel started fighting with him.
It seems that being in a struggle alone is a recipe for failure. 
PLEASE get someone in "real life" that can help you with accountability. 
As we all know, I'll say it again: 

The opposite of addiction is not sobriety - it's CONNECTION. Addiction thrives on isolation! Find someone that you can share your pain and struggles with. And finally, have someone who can cheer you on and celebrate your both big and small wins with you!

strugglingWithMyself wrote on 13 Nov 2021 22:16:


1- While other's might be on a certain level of kedusha, at the same time you can be on a much higher level because of all the difficulties and challenges you had to go through. 

2- 
כי מי־גוי גדול אשר־לו אלהים קרבים אליו כה' אלהינו בכל־קראנו אליו
(דברים פרק ד פסוק ז)
Talking to Hashem is a practice meant for the entire day!
To illustrate, a husband and wife don’t only to speak with each other during limited times; they speak all the time with each other, on an ongoing basis. The home would be unlivable if they wouldn’t speak to each other all the time.
People are with others all the time and socialize with others; we understand that we can naturally speak to other people all the time. So, too, we have a nature to speak with Hashem – and not because it’s an “avodah”, but because it’s our soul’s nature!

3-  The diagnostic criteria for a lust addiction is often vague and subjective. However, several defining features have been suggested: 
- Lust dominates the person's life to the exclusion of other activities.
- Lust activities may be inappropriate and risky .
- The constant urge for lust is typically interspersed with feelings of regret, anxiety, depression, or shame.
- The person engages in other forms of lust when alone, (like: phone, porn, etc.)
- The person engages in lust with multiple partners and/or has extramarital affairs.
- The person masturbates habitually when alone.

Keep falling. Again and again. And again. I see many people talk about the thoughts that "I fell already" and all these things.
I don't feel that
I just fall
I don't hear the voices - it's just me
Is this normal?
Or does everyone have a tiny voice in their head - and I am just me?

@DavidT, a few questions:

1. What does it mean to surpass my peers in this area?
2. What is the way to reach out to Hashem? How can I talk to him?
3. I see a lot of talk around of what an 'addict' is. Is this me? How would I know?

@Polar Bear, don't jump into addict land just yet. Have you ever spoken to anyone about this? That might be the first step, if you are truly an addict, you are going to have to do that regardless, either way, many guys found it to me a gamechanger. 

You can read about the steps, in order to actually do them, you gotta go to meetings or at least talk to people on the phone.

Thank you DavidT for that insight!

So, I suppose that I am in fact addicted.

Iv'e been reflecting on what works for me and what doesn't, and why curtain things that worked for me in the past no longer do. Or why curtain things that worked and then stopped working, now work again etc... And I have come to the conclusion that HASHEM's hand is always involved whenever I succeed, and without his constant involvement, I would not succeed.

If I'm not mistaking, This is one of the 12 steps of overcoming an addiction. Knowing that I am not really in control, and that without HASHEM's help I couldn't do this.

FYI, this is Rabbi Twerski's opinion on defining addiction...
"There are probably a number of ways to define addiction. If you have a desire to do something, and know you shouldn't be doing it but go on to do it anyway, that indicates a loss of control. When this is repetitive, it justifies being considered an addiction."

Even if someone can go without these behaviors for long periods of time, he is still addicted if specific situations make him feel powerless to resist it - in spite of it being against his morals and inner desires. As Rabbi Twerski once asked someone who claimed he wasn't an addict, "so why don't you just stop?"

Wishing you hatzlacha on reaching your goal! 

Hi, I am starting a 90 day goal.

I don't think I am addicted. I have an urge that usually surfaces once every 2 weeks or so. Nothing specific is triggering it to my knowledge.

I tend to view my struggle in this area the same as one would view a struggle with over eating.

​Please feel free to comment or challenge how I view this struggle, it fuels me to reach my goal.

Thank you. 

We all know that the feelings after a fall are very painful. Many people would not even come to admit it so fast as you did, so you're on the right track. 

I'll give you a word of chizuk, I hope it will be helpful. Rabbi Tzadok Hacohen of Lublin, Tzidkas Hatzadik 49: “Everyone must know that in that area in which the yetzer hara pulls him the most, he is a most fitting receptacle to become pure and innocent in that area specifically.” In Sefer Zos Brisi p. 56 he elaborates “If it seems that you are struggling in this area more than others, then take comfort in the fact that you have the potential to surpass your peers in climbing the ladder of holiness and purity in these matters. Continue your struggle, daven for siyata dishmaya, and ultimately you will rise to a level of kedushah and taharah that you never dreamed attainable.”

Please never give up on yourself. You're never alone no matter how alone you may feel.
Reach out to Hashem. He really does want to hear from you. He is eagerly anticipating the next prayer you say. He wants to hear from you so badly. He's is waiting for you to return to Him and start learning his Holy Torah once again.
From one addict to another, you're never alone. There is hope. Anything else is a lie. Good luck on your journey!

How are you celebrating the 62 days? It is a massive accomplishment and deserves recognition. If you buy a food item as a reward make a beautiful bracha, and tell Hashem you are celebrating and giving praise to Him for His assistance, and of course ask for more...

You also have to celebrate the graet mehalech in dealing with the fall. As opposed to some heavy addicts who unfortunately binge and act out numerous times after a fall, you caught yourself, gave yourself chizuk, moved on, and posted the raw truth for all to see. That is a hero!

You are now BH 69 days up the mountain. The air is clear, the views are magnificent. The walk is easier now because you are accustomed to the climb. Keep inspiring us as you smile and continue the invigorating hike.

anonymous.lost.everything wrote on 08 Nov 2021 16:02:


You remind me of what Rabbi Avraham Twerski Z"L said,
"why is it that some “frum” people, even if they were well-versed in Torah and mussar fell into the trap of addiction and recovered with the 12-step program, whereas mussar did not help them? I think the answer is simple. A person who is sincere in recovery leaves a 12-step meeting with the knowledge and feeling, “If I deviate from this program, I will die.” In our davening we say, “ki heim chayenu” that Torah and mitzvos are our very life, but while we say this, I doubt that many people actually feel, “If I deviate from mussar, I will die.”

We're with you... keep strong!

Dear friends,

I know it seems that I was one of those that joined and then disappeared after a few weeks, but I did not completely disappear. Since I didn’t have a filtered device with which to access GYE, I was not able to visit and update the site. But I did subscribe to receive via email all the posts on the forum, so I was able to see everything going on.

So how am I updating now? On an unfiltered device…

Let me explain:

Since I’ve joined GYE (which pre-dates this account by a couple of years, in other Gilgulim), I haven’t really done anything concrete to change. Sure, I read the GYE handbook etc. I “knew” what I had to do, but actually doing anything? Nah…

Two summers ago, i made a plan which I thought was a good & thorough plan. The issue was that I never got to test it out (if the steps would’ve held me back from falling), because I didn’t keep to it at all. I realized that without being accountable to anyone no plan would work however good it was, since I would never keep to it.

Last year (when I made this account) I once again made a good plan (similar to the previous one, since in my opinion the plan itself was good. This time, eventually I did reach out to another GYE member, and we were in contact via text (remember, I didn’t have access to GYE itself). For the first time in a while, I managed to stay clean for about two weeks thanks to his help.

Once I fell, it took me a few weeks to restart. I made a new deal, with many more details, and sent it to this GYE member for accountability. And then - quiet. I just didn’t respond to anything that he sent me (“shutdown mode” when I don’t want to deal with something - just ignore it. I know it doesn’t make it go away, but that’s how it is).

For a few months I just didn’t fight at all. During the summer I got two weeks clean again, but it was because I didn’t have access to internet, not because I fought it (I’m thankful to Hashem for every day that I’m clean, no matter how it happened, but for purposes of successfully fighting this addiction I don’t think days like this can be counted).

After the summer I decided that something needs to change (ok, to be honest the fact that quite a few of my friends were getting married might have to do with it:smile:). During Aseres Yemei Teshuva I spoke to a very close friend of mine and told him about my struggle. This was one of the hardest things I’ve done in my life (I almost didn’t end up doing it, a story for itself…), but I knew this was necessary.

To my (slight) surprise, my friend told me that he had also struggled with the same thing (although much less severely, in my opinion - and I think his as well). Boruch Hashem, he had managed to overcome it with help from some veteran GYE members, and he is happily married. The relief & comfort of having someone I know who understands and can relate to what I’m going through is indescribable.

Anyways, it took me until after Sukkos to finalize with him (during that time I managed to stay clean for 15 days without any concrete plan even though I had unfiltered devices available. This is an issue I can’t solve, and my plan includes not using unfiltered devices). And from 28 Tishrei until 25 Cheshvan I was successfully clean (to be honest, it was only from watching porn, I wasn’t focusing on masturbation yet). On that day I got some bad news, and that lead to me falling. I didn’t use a device I wasn’t meant to, rather I found a way around the filter on my device. It took me a few days to fix that, but Boruch Hashem, now I cannot get around it in that way.

The last few days I haven’t been careful about not using unfiltered devices, and finally that lead to me falling on Sunday. What I need to do is start being careful about it, but I don’t feel any motivation for it. Now if I would be a month into being clean, a lack of motivation wouldn’t be the end of the world, since I do have clear in my head that this is the right thing and what I really want. But to start again, when I can just “Chap arain” one more day (and one more… etc.) is something I do need motivation for, which I’m missing now. I thought the motivation of having to tell my friend that I fell (again…) would be enough, but evidently it isn’t.

I don’t know if I’m necessarily looking for any advice (although its welcome), just venting how I feel. Maybe that itself will help.

Another issue (which I am looking for advice on) is what type of Knasim to make. I have a whole plan, but without good Knasim for falling (either just using an unfiltered device unauthorized; or an actual fall, both with delay & distract tactics beforehand (lesser Knas) or without (harsher Knas)) it doesn’t work as good. Any suggestions?

Thanks (for reading:smile:…)

Bochur23

[Note: I will see any  replies on my email account, but I won't be able to respond on here]

Ish MiGrodno wrote on 07 Nov 2021 16:54:

I think rabbi ALE misunderstood your post as a comment about Lustaholics, when you actually meant to simply stand up against anyone being negative to Yeshivaguy. 

Thanks, WNGU.

Rabbeinu A.L.E. Shlit"a,

I literally have no idea what you are talking about. How on earth does the fact that someone is clinically addicted - justify his unwillingness to address his issue? Unless you are referring to someone suffering from psychosis, your opinion is foreign and completely unfamiliar to me. (And even if you tell me that many perps are trapped in the veil of secrecy / embarrassment that our society has created...that is irrelevant to a "carrier of our mesorah..")

Oh, and also, I don't appreciate the accusation that my post represents an oversimplification of the world as consisting of tzadikim and reshaim. Don't worry - I've been around the block (I deal with bochurim on a daily basis) and I can appreciate a nuance or two. And (as I believe that many of my close friends here on GYE can attest to) I try super hard not to engage in "fly by platitudes" so you can rest assured that I always give thought before I post (as I believe you do as well).

With friendship and respect; yet thoroughly confused in Grodno ~ IMG

anonymous.lost.everything wrote on 07 Nov 2021 10:14:

I think you completely misunderstood the point. Fakers don't mean sex addicts and "proud carriers of the mesora", non addicts. 


The fakers are the ones who don't deal with the issues and the proud guys are the ones who do. The wonder was that even though some of them are dealing with the addiction themselves they still have the strength to stand up for what's right as opposed to the fakers who prefer to just ignore them.

Ish MiGrodno wrote on 07 Oct 2021 03:38:

I completely disagree with the distinction that was made here between the fakers and the proud carriers of the mesorah. The point is precisely that we have lots of proud carriers of the mesorah who are knee-deep in sex addiction and rationalizations. That is precisely the point. It's also important to understand that sex addiction is a disease, and also that they really are proud of the mesorah.

This is hard to accept for people who think that sex addicition is not a real disease, that the world is made up of tzadikim and reshaim, and that someone who did a ton of p&m or abuse people can "do tshuva" and switch from rasha to tzadik.

I have already met two other frum people in SA and a rosh yeshiva told me that he thinks 80% of bochrim have had access to hardcore material, and I'm not hopeful. People have to understand that we have a systemic problem. We make new sex addicts every day and we don't even know we're doing it. It's not an accident.