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25 Jan 2022 21:56

UpAndDown

sleepy wrote on 25 Jan 2022 21:25:

Trouble wrote on 25 Jan 2022 20:20:

UpAndDown wrote on 25 Jan 2022 18:31:
And there we go again...

I fell!  (hz"l)

I am sick of life... I am so frustrated

במסתרים תבכה נפשי

I wish it was מותר and I would have a happy life... I am once again utterly fed up. How long can one fight a war? Everyone needs a break sometimes so why can't I act out here and there?

some of you may not believe me, but it has little interest to me if "it" is muttar or assur, and i have mentioned that in the past (please see the post in the "values" thread where a different program of ff2L was introduced); productivity of life is what concerns me, so even if it was muttar, it would still control my life, and that is not what i want.

if it was mutar it probably wouldnt control your life just like you bedroom area with your wife doesnt control your life ,the things that control our lives are the secret forbidden sides of lust, mayim ginuvin yimtaku, at least thats what judaism teaches, if you dont agree maybe your part of a  different religion that teaches otherwise

The concept of מים גנובים יומתקו just means that it is extra sweet but has nothing to do with controlling your life.
Even things that are מותר can control your life:
1. Eating habits - especially for those with a bigger appetite
2. Bedroom with wife - forever thinking how to make it more exciting
3. News websites - can be very addictive
and I am sure there is more...

I therfore agree with "trouble" that if it were to be מותר - the nature of this תאוה would make it control your life...
Category: Break Free
25 Jan 2022 21:37

i-man

Trouble wrote on 25 Jan 2022 20:24:

i-man wrote on 25 Jan 2022 19:01:
Bego, How do you define “real” ?

i believe the question should be addressed to reb hhm; he is the one who said that this proves that the urges are not "real." [personally, i think he means that the urges do not [b]need to be acted upon, and who would disagree with that? now, just because there is no need, doesn't mean that it's not real, nor does it mean that it doesn't get stronger with time, nor does it mean that he's not addicted.]

Thank you my friend, I think you brought out my point - the nekudas hamachlokes is what do people mean when they say “real” .

One flaw of a forum is that often the writer and reader understand words differently.
25 Jan 2022 20:24

Trouble

i-man wrote on 25 Jan 2022 19:01:
Bego, How do you define “real” ?

i believe the question should be addressed to reb hhm; he is the one who said that this proves that the urges are not "real." [personally, i think he means that the urges do not [b]need[/b] to be acted upon, and who would disagree with that? now, just because there is no need, doesn't mean that it's not real, nor does it mean that it doesn't get stronger with time, nor does it mean that he's not addicted.]
23 Jan 2022 18:02

Shtarkandemotional

Shtarkandemotional wrote on 23 Jan 2022 17:52:

Lost In Search wrote on 23 Jan 2022 13:21:
I usually feel so knocked down when I fall and the only way to feel good again is to masturbate  to get that good feeling and then i have that low again so I need to have a good feeling so I masturbate again....
Its a vicious cycle that I need to break.
I definitely have an addiction issue that runs deeper than your typical shmiras einayim nisoyon. Its more of a  imotional  trigger

it can be an impulsive thing... where you keep looking for that high from something that cant live up! it's interesting I would love it if you can notice during such times, what's more exciting.. masturbation itself and the relief? or the thought and erotic adventure thinking that this masturbation is gonna feel like paradise!?!? we take it and blow it up so big... which leads to a low cuz when were done round 1 we realize it wasn't paradise after all! which leads to another masturbation with the same distortion... it can be very beneficial to build clarity on why you don't wanna turn to masturbation anymore.. and the more you truly understand that masturbation won't live up the easier the fight will be! hatzlacha!

there are many reasons why people struggle with masturbation, figuring out the mindset distortions that you see are making your battle more intense is the first step to breaking free! after you find all of them you can work against them by building a real clarity and turning it into a daily motivation against these mindsets that puts you in the hole... for example, i struggled with masturbation every week... i took a deep look and realized part of my issue is that I need a relief and my brain connected relief with masturbation.. so the opposite of that is building clarity and constant motivation of realizing that i don't need to make masturbation my pacifier.. bottom line is when we understand why our minds are turning us there we can often pinpoint the distortions from there!  
Category: Break Free
23 Jan 2022 17:52

Shtarkandemotional

Lost In Search wrote on 23 Jan 2022 13:21:
I usually feel so knocked down when I fall and the only way to feel good again is to masturbate  to get that good feeling and then i have that low again so I need to have a good feeling so I masturbate again....
Its a vicious cycle that I need to break.
I definitely have an addiction issue that runs deeper than your typical shmiras einayim nisoyon. Its more of a  imotional  trigger

it can be an impulsive thing... where you keep looking for that high from something that cant live up! it's interesting I would love it if you can notice during such times, what's more exciting.. masturbation itself and the relief? or the thought and erotic adventure thinking that this masturbation is gonna feel like paradise!?!? we take it and blow it up so big... which leads to a low cuz when were done round 1 we realize it wasn't paradise after all! which leads to another masturbation with the same distortion... it can be very beneficial to build clarity on why you don't wanna turn to masturbation anymore.. and the more you truly understand that masturbation won't live up the easier the fight will be! hatzlacha!
Category: Break Free
23 Jan 2022 15:24

Human being

Lost In Search wrote on 16 Jan 2022 22:41:
I have to realize that I have an addictive personality so for most people if they want a little entertainment so they'll go on YouTube or Netflix and they can be on it for however long they decided to be on and then it's done.
me on the other hand when I get in front of a screen and go on YouTube to chill i feel like a 14 year old teenager who's been exposed to YouTube the 1st time and gets so excited.
So when i go to chill online even if i decide to be there only for 30 min its way to exciting to try stopping and then the next thing i know is that I just stayed up for 3 hours in middle of the night watching YouTube.
And usually at that stage I'm feeling all guilty why I wasted so many hours on nothing and that's when i start craving the sexual entertainment and that always has a bad ending.
I know that i have to be off the internet cold turkey for any entertainment reasons and not to use internet other than for practical and necessary reasons.
and YouTube as well I have to quit cold turkey even if its to watch kosher stuff.

Wow I couldn't have expressed it about myself any better. exactly my situation. thanks for putting it into words.
Category: Break Free
23 Jan 2022 13:21

Lost In Search

I usually feel so knocked down when I fall and the only way to feel good again is to masturbate  to get that good feeling and then i have that low again so I need to have a good feeling so I masturbate again....
Its a vicious cycle that I need to break.
I definitely have an addiction issue that runs deeper than your typical shmiras einayim nisoyon. Its more of a  imotional  trigger
Category: Break Free
22 Jan 2022 01:30

eduardo

" 10 TOOLS TO HELP ELIMINATE PMO FROM YOUR LIFE"

These tools were crafted by someone who's been from the bottom of addiction to 1596 days clean, built on 8 years of Nofap experience, and based on the great War Comrades I've encountered along the way on the Nofap forums, to which I have the greatest respect:

1) GUARD YOUR EYES

Guarding the eyes of triggers is essential to escape addiction to Pmo and not just for 90 days, but for the rest of your life, for that the following measures must be taken:UNINSTALL TIK TOK, KWAI, INSTAGRAM OR SOCIAL NETWORKS THAT MAKE YOU FALLAt least 50 percent (or more) of the drops I hear come from social media, tik tok, kwai, Instagram, etc. Kwai and Tik Tok I don't even need to explain. Even if the person doesn't follow any instagram models, Instagram puts them without you asking for these models on your screen, it happened to me on social media and I know it must have happened to you too, filter very well what you access or watch.Beware of some news sites, know where you step, yes there are serious news sites without triggersAnd on the street you don't need to look at women who are provocatively dressed as it will cause you to fall down hours later (because it enters your mind through your eyes and your brain will use it against you later), deflect the look, you don't have to look for any of these triggers, pay attention to the landscape around you, filter the environments you step on.So the principle of Guarding your eyes is when you see a trigger anywhere, whether in real or virtual life, immediately move away from the trigger and focus on the details around you.Know that guarding your eyes is like exercising your muscles, over time it becomes a habit and over time it becomes part of youI emphasize that guarding your eyes is not running like a desperate from the triggers, because if I tell you not to think about a white elephant, the first thing you will think about is a white elephant! Guarding your eyes is the art of ignoring, ignoring is the key, change the course of the situation, pay attention to the details around youYou don't overcome this addiction by hitting it head on, but by ignoring it, dodging it.Facing addiction head-on makes it stronger, but if you ignore it, that thing gets weak and disappears, craving disappears.

2) DOWNLOAD BLOCKERS

It is essential to get out of addiction to put up fences, and one of those fences are blockers, and there are numerous in the app stores, especially Blockerx, BullDog Blocker, Safe Surfer, Pure Web and Clean Browsing.Blockers are to avoid involuntary triggers, like those that appear when you are doing a search, whether at work or school on google images and the triggers appear and also to block your cell phone in case you want to see it, you can also configure it for that passing his password to someoneBlockers also help against triggers on google and youtube as some of them put youtube and google into restricted mode automatically.

3) UNDERSTAND WHY YOU'RE GETTING THESE TRIGGERS

In order to reach your goal, you need to understand what causes you to relapse. So for many it's instagram, whatsapp group with traps, no relationship, no purpose in life, boredom, these are the biggest reasons for falling.Pay attention to what can generate boredom in you , some examples that can generate boredom are : not having contact with people , that is , not socializing , spending a lot of time on the internet aimlessly browsing at random , whether marathon series or playing games , these things they do not fill and generate a lot of boredom, so they must be used with balance in moments of rest and after all tasks of the day are completed, I repeat again BALANCE

4) BE BUSY

Although it's the 4th tool in the order it is, this one I have to highlight at the same level as the Eye Guard.Don't be a procrastinator! Don't sit idly by! Be busy with constructive things, whether at work, whether renovating something, whether studying, productive tasks that make you feel useful and bring you a sense of completed goal, of accomplishment, that fills you up!

5) HAVE OBJECTIVES, HAVE OBJECTIVES

Daily, weekly, monthly, yearly goals, goals for life, just have goals so your brain automatically processes your ability to achieve them.

6) EXERCISE

Get into the habit of playing outdoor sports like running or cyclingExercises + Contact with nature = Healing your Mind and Body I don't even need to explain.

7) MEDITATE

It will help you to resist those urges, sexual thoughts and give you the power to focus and focus on your true self.

8) COLD BATH

When the urge arises, go to the shower and take a cold shower:

The initial 20 seconds of the shower will be cold, after the initial shock try to feel the water flowing through your body, feel the urge leaving you , take your shower normally hot or warm, now the final 40 seconds take a cold shower, breathe deeply and channel all your concentration, focus on the momentYou will feel a very good feeling after the bath, the cold shower refreshes the soul and helps to dissipate the will.

Cold bathing is very beneficial for mental health and the whole body:

Look here:

www.healthline.com/health/cold-shower-benefits

9) BE A BETTER PERSON

Donate to charity, do volunteer work, forgive those who have to forgive, fight for justice in your country, be a better person, know that you can make a difference, so be a Man or Woman of ValorSomehow, always do good.If you want to go beyond, you can fight for justice in your country, proposing laws as a citizen to criminalize the production and distribution of pornography, and help people to make people aware of the evil that this Addiction is, and that something must be done, for our good. , our children and all posterity.If you have the clout and conditions to do so, do so. Be an instrument of good, be an instrument of God, so God will be fighting with you in your struggles and freeing you from Addiction to pornography even more.

10) REFUGE IN A GREATER FORCE

From everything I said, the foundation of everything is to take refuge in God, no matter how you name this Driving Force of the Universe, no matter religion or non-religion, know that there is Something that is above you and that is part of your Essence , it is that inner Voice of Encouragement that gives you strength in the darkest hours and that always calls us, no matter the darkness that we find ourselves, this Voice is from our Source that calls us and is together with us, without its Help and without applying the tools above I would never be able toI hope the tips above can help you as it helped me, I want to remind you that the 90 days are just the beginning of the reboot it's not the end, that's why the importance of always having goals, even when you complete 1 year, 2 , 3 years is not the end , never settle for reaching 90 days , 180 days , 1 year , etc.Because the tools above are indispensable for a lifetime, never accommodate, because no one becomes invincible after 90 days, you get stronger and stronger, but if you hesitate and don't keep your eyes and settle down sooner or later you will fall, and if you fall , never Go back to square one, don't let a block dismantle the Building you built, it's not about 8 or 80, understand this, and be happy for your progress that is infinitely greater than your setbacks.

#NoFapParaSempre
#BeABetterPerson
#Helpothers
#Help Yourself
Category: Break Free
21 Jan 2022 15:39

clean830

Hi Starting, I'll just offer some perspective based on my experience in the SA program and working the 12 steps. Just for some background I'm in SA since October of 2020 and have been sober with the help of Hashem since 8/30/20 after over 20 years of acting out.
One of the biggest motto's in SA is "it's a program of action". And "faith without action is dead". In other words you are 100% right that the concept of surrender is NOT that I do not have to do anything just let God do it for you and you do not try... Taking that approach will likely lead to chronic relapse and no serious sobriety. From my experience and from what I've learned in the program, surrender means the realization that I CANNOT do this alone by myself. Simply fighting the Yetzer Hora and "being strong" will not work for an addict. You need to come to the realization that alone you will not succeed as you are powerless over lust, but with allowing God to take care of your life you will be able to stay sober. This in NO way gives you a "free card" and dispensation from taking SERIOUS action to stay sober - through working the program and doing whatever you can "at all costs" to stay sober, it's just a mindset shift and realiziation you NEED God to help you in order to stay sober. If you take the action with the realization that He is ultimately the One who will keep you sober you will gain freedom with His help over this disease and addiction. But if you sit back and say "God - do your thing I'll just sit and wait" pretty much a guarantee to keep slipping... There's a whole chapter in the white book of SA dedicated to tools how to deal with lust triggers. You NEED these tools!! It is not in any way a contradiction to surrender! They go hand in hand. 
Feel free to pm me or connect with me through the partner program to discuss further. Wishing you much Hatzlocha with the help of Hashem on your journey and your road to true recovery!!! And remember you are never alone!!!
Category: Break Free
19 Jan 2022 15:09

DavidT

Shmuel wrote on 19 Jan 2022 14:57:

joetyh wrote on 19 Jan 2022 14:52:
i need to learn how to let myself let go so I can cry

The mindfulness tracks on the new hotline might be helpful in allowing yourself to really feel

646-GYE-6600   (646-493-6600)

Press 2 For help with addictive behaviors
Press 2 If you’re struggling with an urge right now
We added there many great "mindfulness" & "urge surfing" recordings...

The hotline now has a new section with many "Jewish Mindfulness" recordings by Dr. Yoni Feiner, author of the fantastic book Mindfulness: A Jewish Approach.

Shortcuts:
To access this new collection dial 646-GYE-6600 ext. 19. 
To access the regular Mindfulness collection, use ext. 18 (for info on the general collection see this post.)
Category: Break Free
18 Jan 2022 23:57

MenachemGYE

Great news! 

The hotline now has a new section with many "Jewish Mindfulness" recordings by Dr. Yoni Feiner, author of the fantastic book Mindfulness: A Jewish Approach.

Shortcuts:
To access this new collection dial 646-GYE-6600 ext. 19. 
To access the regular Mindfulness collection, use ext. 18 (for info on the general collection see this post.)
Category: Announcements
18 Jan 2022 15:29

Anonymous1234567

By not guarding my eyes I watch music videos that are not modest... I'm addicted to music videos but I got to keep my eyes guarded...
Category: Break Free
18 Jan 2022 14:12

bego

DavidT wrote on 17 Jan 2022 20:40:
According to many professionals, including Rabbi AJ Twerski Z"L, real addiction is an "illness" and needs to be treated as such.  Someone who fell a few times out of curiosity can be washed off and get out of it. But once a person has sunk his mind into this stuff for years, and he has trained himself to use lust as an escape mechanism from life whenever feeling R.I.D (Restlessness, Irritability, Discontent) and he has trained his mind to be triggered by everything he sees, this person develops an "allergy" to lust. What that simply means is, that for the rest of his life, he knows that he can not take even the first sip of lust, because if he does, he can easily lose control. His acting out all these years burned neuron pathways into his brain by "conditioning" himself to be aroused by everything he saw.

Knowing that one has this condition doesn't absolve him of anything. He still needs to know what the torah demands from us and keep all the halachos

What this person needs to realize is that he is not someone "bad" who needs to become "good", but rather he is simply "ill" and needs to get "better". When attacked by lust he simply says to himself, "well there I go again!", and he surrenders the lust to Hashem - knowing that he can't afford to even battle with it at all.

Hi DavidT

​So I am not entirely sure what point you are making. If you are saying some people develop addictions, I couldn't agree more. If you are saying we can't get past that without thinking about Hashem, I think that is true as well. But then we get to my other post... 
Category: Introduce Yourself
18 Jan 2022 12:11

wilnevergiveup

sleepy wrote on 18 Jan 2022 07:00:

wilnevergiveup wrote on 18 Jan 2022 06:17:
Hi Sleepy, I couldn't get through your whole post, already in the beginning I think you missed the entire point. 

There is no connection between an addict not focusing on the religious reasons to quit and not having goals in life. 

An addict can have goals and accomplishments in many areas of avodas Hashem and often are far more successful than "regular guys" because they actually put in the work of becoming closer to Hashem. Addicts who work the 12 steps are often in a much better place in their Yiddishkeit than the average Yeshiva guy. 

It's in the addiction that they cannot feel controlled or forced by any outside source, everything has to come from within. Addicts don't have control, the only "self control" they know is "controlling life" by Drinking/smoking/watching etc. the whole idea of control is toxic.

When a person stays clean because it helps their lives be manageable, they can live life without feeling controlled. When someone fights in order to live the life that they want to live (which may be following a life of Torah, just not because the addiction is assur) while accepting that life may not always go the way they want, they can stay clean without trying to control or manipulate life. 

This may not be across the board, just an idea. 

i said that  my post was NOT for addicts, i wasnt bashing them ,just wasnt posting for them ,i missed your point as well it seems.
p.s. i definitely acknowledge that many addicts are way above my level of avodas Hashem and realationship with Hashem , i dont know what i wrote that would infer otherwise.if i offended anyone ,i apologize.

"i would just ask Trouble what are his goals in life ,does he have an ambition to finish shas?no?why not? and if he does do daf yomi and has finished shas, does he have an ambition to really know it ?to review it?does he enjoy it ...."

Seems clear and specific to me who you were referring to.

And sorry for hijacking this thread, @Joetyh, please forgive me.
Category: Break Free
18 Jan 2022 06:17

wilnevergiveup

Hi Sleepy, I couldn't get through your whole post, already in the beginning I think you missed the entire point. 

There is no connection between an addict not focusing on the religious reasons to quit, and not having goals in life. 

An addict can have goals and accomplishments in many areas of avodas Hashem and often are far more successful than "regular guys" because they actually put in the work of becoming closer to Hashem. Addicts who work the 12 steps are often in a much better place in their Yiddishkeit than the average Yeshiva guy. 

It's in the addiction that they cannot feel controlled or forced by any outside source, everything has to come from within. Addicts don't have control, the only "self control" they know is "controlling life" by Drinking/smoking/watching etc. the whole idea of control is toxic.

When a person stays clean because it helps their lives be manageable, they can live life without feeling controlled. When someone fights in order to live the life that they want to live (which may be following a life of Torah, just not because the addiction is assur) while accepting that life may not always go the way they want, they can stay clean without trying to control or manipulate life. 

This may not be across the board, just an idea.
Category: Break Free
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