Mesayin wrote on 31 Aug 2022 07:20:

I could really use so much of the Chizzuk I wrote to other people on this site 

I can't believe I had such fire. I guess one of the good things about this site is it's like a journal/diary

Wow.

I haven't been to this site in a couple of years.

I've been struggling with Z"L since I last came here and I even fell for some real bad shmutz within the last couple of years (I don't think I'm addicted though)

I just went through my posts and I was on fire! I wish I had the same fire today as I appeared to have back then. I was so full of Chizzuk and motivation (although, it might have just been my good days).

Being back on the site for a couple of days has really got me thinking of how much I should get back in my truck, I should view my struggles as an opportunity to get closer to Hashem.

Baruch Hashem I am in contact with Hashem Help Me. I believe one of the main reasons I struggle is because I have had no one to talk to about it (The person I spoke to a few years ago passed away r"l). Hopefully speaking with Hashem Help Me will help me further.

Markz, Cordnoy, the rest of you. It looked like I enjoyed conversing with you back then. Hopefully we can converse further

Welcome.
Normal?  Not me.
I'm addicted to the stuff.
Understanding that made all the difference for me.

What's the plan?

Hopeful2022 wrote on 28 Aug 2022 10:23:

They block the chattin' for fellows who.....

• give out porn sites
• engage in sexual conversations and then offer hangouts or whatsapp
• folks describin' sexual organs or sexcapades with no productive value
• stricter guidelines for those with ssa

It has happened to me. I cut the conversation as soon as I suspected the person was digging to feed their addiction. it’s best to block and report. As much as we don’t judge anyone We can’t afford to engage in those dangerous and triggering conversations.

It has been a few days since posting, and feeling great. On day five now and hoping and expecting a great day. One issue that I am hoping for a little guidance. I was texting with someone the other day, and he said he was having a tough day, and we exchanged a few messages back and forth. Then he immediately went to ask me to send pictures of my wife and children and asked me what kind of porn I was "into." In the real world, I would have just stopped and blocked him, but I understand that we all struggle with this stuff, and I just told him that I would never do that and that he shouldn't be asking. Back and forth we went, and his probing questions triggered me a little, and the conversation started going in the wrong direction. I then said for him to stop it, and when he didn't, I ended the conversation.

I almost felt bad for him, that he chose this place to feed his addiction. But I am nowhere near strong enough to be able to let him vent on me. The next morning I logged on and found that I could no longer use the texting program. I can only assume that the admins read the conversation and blocked us both. 

Has that happened to anyone or have they heard of people using our weakness to feed their own addiction? Any advice would be greatly appreciated 

whenever i meet a rav or mentor that i can talk to, i try to engage them in conversation on this topic. If i believe they will be receptive, i send them a copy of the book the battle of the generation. I am lucky that i am at an age where i don't have to worry about what anyone thinks of my struggles. I don't advertise my struggles but i am eager to share the resources that helped me climb out. Ultimately, i do believe that there will be better education on this topic for women. it may take another couple of years but there is alot more understanding amongst rabbonim....

Also, If you listen to podcasts, Eli Nash and Rabbi YY Jacobsen have a great 3.5 hour podcast specifically addressing the shame of this addiction.

Goldfish wrote on 25 Aug 2022 20:10:

Great to hear from you goldfish.  I'm going to try to thread the needle and respond to your post.  Although you considered renaming your post, the body of your post indicated that you have very much not given up.  You are acknowledging that it is difficult and are not sure what will work to get you out of this.  That is perfectly ok. The fact that you are expressing yourself and your feelings will be helpful to you in the long run.  I am not sending any sympathy but i encourage you to continue posting when you have the strength to do so.  

best wishes
vehkam

I think I should rename my thread "Given up already." I don't really know how to describe my feeling of disconnect (or more accurately lack of feeling) but it makes it really hard to even try working on something. I have very low self awareness and don't really know my thoughts, emotions and motivations. Its quite possible that I am an addict (though I'm more inclined to believe I'm just obssesive) but I don't really think any system that requires self-introspection can ever truly work for me. I am also exceptionally lazy and am not trained in hard work. I've been reading a holocaust book and she writes there about how she felt that she had no hope yet Hashem still helped her survive. I may spend the rest of my life struggling when I have the capacity to and falling when I don't but there is always the hope that Hashem will help. Boruch Hashem, He has given me a tendency to remove my access to porn within hours of getting it. Its been like that for years. I am in a bsically good mood today (I think) with quite a bit of mental capacity so I was able to write this. Usually I can't motivate myself to do it. Just updating. You don't really need to respond as I don't need sympathy nor do I want to be told off, which leaves little else to respond, because, as noted, I don't think anyone can help me. Hatzlacha.

Thank you to everyone for your support and encouragement .The aveirah of Motzi Zera Levatalah can be hard to understand. I remember hearing that the biggest sin is to use the power of creation, which is a Godly ability, for our own pleasure. I was looking at my daughter the other day. She Bli Ayin Hara is a beautiful baby. This idea became more of a reality.

I have been having a hard time with Shmiras Einayim. The aisles of Evergreen are filled with pitfalls, and usually I manage to fall into every single one several times. I recently realized that going shopping would cause me to have a certain, anxious-like feeling. The best phrase I can use to describe it is Pizur Hanefesh. My peace of mind was disturbed. I strongly believe that this pleasure seeking is a part of it. The need to see and gaze and pry and investigate and glance and peek pulls my mind all over the place. Then, once I spot someone who is worthy of my attention, I try to get as much viewing time as possible as casually as I can. Then my heart starts coveting that which I know I will never have. Then I feel guilt about looking at someone who is not my wife. All this to buy tomatoes and a cucumber. Today I decided I am not interested. It felt very liberating.

Someone asked if it makes sense to thank Hashem for enjoying forbidden pleasures. I think it does not.  Should the disturbed teenager cutting herself thank her parents for the kitchen knife? Should the drug addict thank Hashem for cocaine? A temporary pleasure with disastrous consequences in this world and the next is not where we are supposed to find gratitude to our Creator. 

Fascinating discussion.

My tuppence is that for me, porn/masturbation etc is primarily a coping mechanism for emotional distress.

But that doesn't mean that I am emotional distressed on a permanent basis.

I do have underlying issues which make me prone to that distress under certain circumstances.

But porn/masturbation can also be out of simple lust.
One can be happy, and still be drawn to lust.


There is actually a non-Jewish guy somewhere online who has made point of saying how different sex addiction is from alcohol, drug and gambling addiction.
He says that the sex drive is a normal human drive such as the drive for food and drink.
The other addictions are somehow learned.
So sex addiction must be regarded differently.

He is partially correct...he says that a way to curing people is to be in a healthy monogomous relationship.
This is a help for some people.

But as this forum shows, it is not the cure.
Because there are married people on this forum too.

We do have an inner drive to look at attractive women...it is a biological impetus to selecting a woman we believe will be a suitable mother to our children.
The attractiveness is supposed to represent health.

But as we know, outward appearances can be very deceptive.
As Jews, we are encouraged to look beyond the outer, to inspect the character and personality traits of the woman.

So if you are happy, looking at porn is like a virtual reality.
It fools you into thinking you are with that attractive woman in person.
When instead you are alone with your phone or computer.

It wastes time that could be spent being productive or simply relaxing.
It's fools gold.

Sounds like me, a few years ago. Let me just warn you , I am no longer married. I only talked to other women on sites until i met one. Then another and another and another. Porn became consistent and addictive. All aspects of my life changed and i wasn't realizing it until it was too late. I am now fighting just so i can have some semblance of a life. I lost so much forever because i did not fight it. I thought it was mild, im not so bad and im sure there are many that are worse than me. The more i got in to it and extended to worse and worse things the more I started thinking its ok its normal. Until i ended up in an institution and was told (and I realized) that I was no longer normal. Only way i was fortunate is that i did not end up in prison (for long term). 
If you saw me in person you would swear to do anything not to end up looking like me. I could be an extreme case but i was not unusual when this all started. 

laughingman wrote on 24 Aug 2022 06:06:

Thank you.

No words.

Godspeed!

We did talk on the phone several times and almost met once; wish that would've worked out.

All the best to you.

As I write this I tremble ....I hope to Hashem with all my blazing thoughts I can get this down right and convey what I mean ....I spent the last hour having this in mind because the most incredible things have happened, 

Let's go back several years, ......I started off here simply trying to control my last addiction issues .....I really thought that was as simple as it seemed ....but back then I couldn't even agree amongst my own personalities what the name of my struggles was ......soo in tandem I wrote down my thoughts, my feelings, and my experiences here and in other places,....ok good great whatever ......

I started reaching out to some of the OG mods here like DOV (shout out to dov BTW!!) And started a dialog ....started to peel back the layers of dirt that were the barriers to my truer self ....the broken child who simply could never accept what happened to him in his childhood and wanted the whole world and its mother to pay the price instead of the price he thought he was paying 

Anyway we started talking, on the phone as well, and I remember having a particularly difficult argument with my wife, leaving home, calling dov and in describing what had occurred he says "soo what your saying is you have been emotionally abusing your wife for years" .......I was soo taken aback ....I couldn't believe it ....I didn't believe it ...I mean I prided myself on being born of an enlightened generation that had women voting and equal rights and all that junk ......I never slurred people I never stereotyped (that's not really true either but hopefully ill get to that)  ....but it stuck in my head, that and him saying something about going to study from the bnei yissachar cause he liked to get that in sometimes at night, (by the way I recently randomly came across a bnei yissachar several in synagogue and ....wow lol) .....for the longest time I wouldn't accept my flaws and faults ....Im not sure I do yet correctly....but I do now more than then. 

Suddenly my world was all kinds of upside down ....anyone who has followed me has seen the storm of my posts that are all over the place 

I was losing everything I held near and dear to me like i was trying to get rid of it all 

I was hurting my family in all sorts of ways ....sure I was also trying to help and as usual I was almost always the one stop for everything being the only one who could drive or move the way I can or think the way I do or work or anything .....but I was still denying away because I couldn't accept the consequences, nor deal with the aftermath or anything....(I'm getting sleepy writing this i didn't sleep enough last night, got up super early ...but this is important to get down)

And I kept spiraling out of control until I was constantly threatening all kinds of nonsense all the time and unable despite the treatments to regulate my emotions at all

then it all came to a head on feb 5 ......I attempted, despite all my learning, despite everything I know and believe in, despite my family needing me to just pretend to have a semblance of normal, to end it all 
I went to a local supermarket, bought a set of knives, and drove to a remote enough location at the edge of the local wildlife area, and slit through my wrists and tried to stab myself in the heart, thinking that even if I didn't hit it I would at least bleed to death ....I was completely willing to deal with the pain, which frankly in my hopelessness barely felt ....and as my good white pole turned bright red and I weirdly tried to NOT bleed all over the car (ha it got everywhere!) I made what I assumed to be my last call to my wife ....because I didn't want her to find out about my death from the news ( fyi I had a job lined up for that time period .....of course I never showed up ... ...its ok though) ....

Within 30 minstead she had called local emergency services and, because of my location and the many extremely similar but equally remote locations took them alittle while to fond me even though I had allowed the system to track my phone....albeit reluctantly....while simultaneously and equally reluctantly guiding them by phone to my location as only someone in my line of work could even do.....

Within an additional 1/2 hour ....I was in an ambulance on my way to the local hospital, and all I could think of honestly was that my wife was attempting to hoof it out on foot towards me ...and despite the relatively close proximity to our residence the area is extremely hilly....more specifically it goes down hill towards where I was and then up hill towards where I was going.....and she is in no physical condition at all for that kind of activity ....she can barely move most of the time soo I spent the whole time without my phone since it had been taken from me momentarily to deal with my conditions, to explain to whoever was around me to have someone drive my wife to where they were taking me from wherever she had gotten too ...I was truly afraid she might kill herself trying to protect and support me despite everything I had up till and including that point done (I really hope I can get ALL THIS DOWN ....its a book lol 

anyway I get to the hospital and within literally an additional 1/2 hour ....I had a ct that showed i missed my heart or anything vital despite my extensive knowledge of physiology and they patched up and I was awaiting transfer to a mental health facility in acco 

what followed was 2 months of mental rehabilitation and therapies and medication changes 

When i got out, I moved immediately in with (my phone which im using to write all this was at like 85 ....now its 65% lol) other and last relative available to move in with .....and basically seperated unofficially at the time from my wife and children
What followed were 5 months of just helping my family from a distance and focusing on rebuilding my businesses 

still arguing here and there but not the same, still learning the full extent of my vile actions of the past ,

Until I started to break even farther 

And i started to talk to Hashem (G-d for those who don't know this word literally translates to "the name"), I talked about my hopelessness, I talked about my true desires, including my desire that he grant me said desires even if they were supposedly specifically forbidden, I explained that I didn't fully understand my wants or desires but I just felt that at this point as a proper "villain" what was the difference 

But then strangely....I started accepting, 

accepting what i had done wrong
Accepting the consequences 
Accepting my responsibilities in my actions
accepting my responsibility to those I had hurt, forevermore as a result of my actions 
Accepting the things that seemed to go wrong at all times...all of the things that were going wrong ...or difficult, like having to prove i was still a competent driver, dealing with the authorities, going to therapies, taking my meds on time, eating to keep my strength up 
I focused on prayer and studying, on my usual gaming distractions, but also started making new friends from remote places to learn people's experience on both sides of what I had been involved in 

And I slowly accepted that me and my wife truly did need the separation...and in a funny way we are now closer and more family than we ever were as a "proper married couple" 

I accepted my true role as a father of three of the most remarkable people I have ever met ....and im not saying that because they are my kids 
And I accepted that it was A PRIVILEGE AND AN HONOR  to guide them and be there for them 

And I accepted my role in my step daughters life as she wanted it or not ....not how I felt or wanted.....I started to respect her feelings and wishes and the effects of what I had done but also to separate what I had done from what I had not done and from her own personal struggles that were not all my fault but at least interconnected with the experiences 

Recently ...things happened that in the past I would have in the past....and even as late as last Sunday still did at least at first gut reaction, just freaked out about and not been productive about 

But I locked down my ego and got to sensible work at what solutions and results we needed to accomplish....all the while 

Through my new contacts and friends I started to learn what it truly means to respect people especially women....how to not be a condescending jerk, I have begun to learn how to properly (although judging from today I have ways to go on that lol) plan and execute said plans and to manage myself and time 

how to respect and even love myself without being full of myself 

And to be there for my family and as many people as possible professionally and altruistically 

Last shabbat (Saturday) I had one of THE  most meaningful and restful shabbat of my life (I'm soooo tired right now and I have work right after I post this lol) and I was able to sit with my children and start to impart with them my knowledge and experiences in a loving and healthy and non weird way 

I recently had another argument with my wife and that same day was able to take responsibility and just deal 

I still am very much a work in progress ....but today after I got ready early and prayed early and got more done in my mind than in a long time I felt I MUST WRITE THIS DOWN it might help others 

There was probably mmore I wanted to say bbut I got a call for work like 10 minutes ago and my brain is melting lol soo thank you made it this far and I hope this has impacted you in some meaningful way 

Ps because i am reposting this all over my socials im giving a shout out to those of you whom i follow who without whom allt of my recent growth would have been impossible 

Thank you all and I wish you all whats yours and double that 

Hi. I have been involved in the world of p and m since around 5th or 6th grade. At first, and I’m sure most people my age had this experience, I didn’t understand the severity of what I was doing. By the time I did, I was already an addict. There were times when I was inspired to stop (making a pact with my friends in yeshivah, going to Israel, starting to date, getting married, having a kid), but of course the inspiration always wears off. I had spoken with my Rebbe when I was in yeshivah about it and he was really helpful at the time. He recently asked me if I was still struggling with it and I told him I was. He told me that I should see a therapist about it and after a few sessions my therapist recommended I come here. And there you have it.