OivedElokim wrote on 11 Jan 2023 04:02:

It's a great song..
Good to hear your in a good place right now.
Much hatzlocha!

Update:

I finally got rid of the problematic laptop. I'm optimistic about staying porn-free going forward. Masturbation will remain a big issue for the foreseeable future, though I am taking baby steps to dial it down. As per the advice of one GYE mentor, I no longer masturbate on Shabbos out of respect for the holy day. Perhaps I will extend that good minhag for Friday or Sunday, slowly building up my ability to resist that particular temptation.

As I mentioned in my previous post, I had somewhat of traumatic experience on a certain social media platform, the same one on which I met "my shiksa". Maybe it was G-d's way of telling me to quit messing around with this stuff. If it was-I certainly got the message...
I'm still somewhat shaken up by the experience but am trying my best to move on.

I am going on a small "vacation" tomorrow to a nice, warm place tomorrow. I will be there for a week. Hopefully that will help me recover my emotional strength to move on.

In other news, my Mashpia finally gave me his full haskama to begin Shidduchim, so hopefully I'll get the ball rolling when I come back. I'm really nervous about it but also excited. It will be a journey, perhaps a tumultuous one. But I have faith in the one who set me on this good green earth that he will bring me to a good place, ultimately.

I feel like I only share bad news on here, so here's the good news: I am very happy these days. I am quite productive every day, both in learning and in work. I feel like I'm finally alive. Other then this social media issue, things have been going very very well, BH. I pray that it stays that way...

Now here's some lyrics from a song I'm currently addicted to that I found relevant and inspiring (It's from Abie Rotenberg's latest Journeys album). Take it or leave it:

"The salt stings their eyes and they fear for their lives-yet they fight off their feelings of dread.
For they know and believe there's a path through the sea-that will lead to clear sailing ahead.

It's our life, a journey at sea, a voyage of fate and destiny,
​The waters will challenge the fortitude and courage of every man 
The stars that light up the night they'll be our map, our compass, our guide
Follow them true, follow them faithfully-till we find land"

With prayers for a strong internal compass and smooth sailing for me and for all of you, my dear friends,
OivedElokim

5Uu80*cdwB#^ wrote on 10 Jan 2023 20:44:

Reb numbers and letters, your response is beautiful, and your accomplishments are simply amazing! It is so inspiring to read somebody who was there write "But oh is it worth it to not be a slave to taivos! I am finally a free man. I have never felt better in my whole life. NOTHING beats the joy of being in control of your desires, once you experience that joy." Amazing. Keep on trucking and inspiring us all!

Wow. clear and to the point!
the question was worth it just to read this response!

guardmyeyes1606 wrote on 10 Jan 2023 19:22:

Hi. I had this thought cross through my head so many times over approximately the 5 year period from when I first learned that masturbation is prohibited by halacha to when I finally had success on quitting nearly 500 days ago, Baruch Hashem.

The short answer is that in the midst of addiction to lust, which is what leads most people to be unable to live without masturbating, it is nearly impossible to imagine how you can live without masturbating. I know this because I clearly remember thinking to myself that I would never be able to live without masturbating back when I was in the midst of addiction. Your question makes a lot of sense from where you are.

If you:
1. Do not look at any sexually stimulating imagery, no matter what.
2. Move your mind on from sexually stimulating fantasies to other thoughts and activities.
3. Are willing to suffer the physical pains of withdrawal,

you will be able to stop masturbating. The reason people masturbate is because they lust and fantasize. If you get to the point where you recognize this, and then abandon all activities that lead to further fantasizing, you will stop masturbating. I never once masturbated without fantasizing. Ever. If you move on from fantasy and lust, you won't masturbate.

Reflect on this over and over: If you do not fantasize --> you will not masturbate. If you do not fantasize --> you will not masturbate. If you do not fantasize --> you will not masturbate. If you do not fantasize --> you will not masturbate. If you do not fantasize --> you will not masturbate. If you do not fantasize --> you will not masturbate. If you do not fantasize --> you will not masturbate.

That's the answer to your question. What holds people back is that they aren't honest with themselves about this and they aren't willing to endure the pain of withdrawal. It's really that simple. The hard work is doing it. And trust me, it's hard to abandon fantasy. But oh is it worth it to not be a slave to taivos! I am finally a free man. I have never felt better in my whole life. NOTHING beats the joy of being in control of your desires, once you experience that joy.

guardmyeyes1606 wrote on 10 Jan 2023 19:22:

Great question!
The fact is that this seemingly harmless behavior can cross the line into a compulsive activity that is anything but benign. Some become so dependent on the behavior that they lose hours and hours of their day, unable to leave the house. Others masturbate to the point of injuring themselves.

Masturbation can lead a person to become isolated, or end up spending all their time and money on porn to further fuel their compulsive behavior. Still others become addicted to the point where they find themselves unable to control the urge to masturbate in public or otherwise inappropriate places. This is addiction, and it can have just as grave, debilitating consequences as drugs or alcohol.

The struggle with purity, that every adolescent undergoes, is the fertile soil from which his true self is given a chance to shine. When a young man finally does discover that this is a sin, and particularly when he begins to understand the immense power behind sexuality and how it is able to bring forth life itself when channeled properly, Hashem wants that he should begin to feel a healthy sense of guilt which drives him to try and stop these behaviors. In the process of trying to stop, he begins to learn what he is really made of. This battle is what separates the men from the boys. It is precisely during the adolescent years when a person's maturity and soul begin to mature that these struggles play such a crucial role in one's spiritual progress.

If Hashem and Chazal had not written in such strong terms about the seriousness of this sin, it is doubtful anyone would bother even trying to stop. It is a powerful pleasure and so very addictive, that without a serious incentive to stop who would even try? I'd also like to point out that Chazal have used even stronger words when discussing the issur of Lashon Hara and of turning one's eyes away from a poor man, comparing these sins to the three cardinal sins of murder, idolatry, and illicit relations! Yet, we rarely hear people ask, "Why does Hashem cause so many people to speak Lashon Hara and/or turn away from poor people and yet consider this a grave sin?" For some reason, when it comes to this particular sin of purity, many people question the seriousness and/or the appropriateness of the strong terminologies used by Chazal. I believe it is because we tend to feel more guilty and "dirty" with these sins. But Hashem is infinitely loving and patient with us. He knew that most of us would stumble in this area, and He is waiting for us to use the struggle as a springboard for growth. It is ok to have dirty laundry--we all do--as long as we make sure to keep doing our washes and never give up. But if the sin wouldn't be spoken about in strong terms, very few would even take on the battle.

By forcing us to learn self-control and to channel our animalistic desires properly, we are given the opportunity to build up our character and our souls.

831014 - Addictive thinking
 So there's this book called "Addictive thinking" by Abraham J. Twerski, where is address how we can identify the presence of additive thinking that would ultimately become a step backwards. So for me was necessary built barriers to my thoughs in order to avoid cues. I'm going to write a text literally:

831013 - The pressure
P&M was never my first way to go so when the pressure comes, I pass on other addictive behaviours such as insomnia or overthinking or just lost time on some cellphone game or anything but face that presureeeeeeeeeeeeeee. BH that need to run away is less fierceful now days.This week indeed had a lot pressure...

Well this is a fresh new point. And its a good one! id love to respond.    In general, most people share your viewpoint. That there are 2 types of guys, 1- addicted, 12 steps, etc   2- guys with normal healthy albeit challenging desires.   And then there is also a 3rd group, that is really part of group 1, those who are on on their way to recovery, and realize, they have an underlying trauma, abuse/ other emotional factors that needs healing.



This is the whole premise I'm coming to disrupt. There are no 3 groups. There is 1 group.     All of us act because of underlying reasons. All diagnosis's are caused from underlying reasons. All addictions that send people to 12 steps programs are caused by underlying reasons. 



The underlying reasons are feelings.    Feelings cause guys to act in ways that are addicting. Feelings cause the symptoms that are then diagnosed as "mental illness". And feelings are what cause us to act on our normal sexual desire, even when our cognitive mind doesn't want to.            For some, the underlying feelings are stronger. Like a huge feeling of shame, loneliness, disconnection and fear. For others its feelings that are less strong, like worry, stress and tiredness.  For others its the feelings that are the overwhelming and sad results of trauma, abuse and neglect. For others its our day to day negative feelings.  Addiction isn't the cause of addictions. Nobody downed his first bottle of whiskey because he was addicted to whiskey. Nobody smoked up for the first time because he was addicted to smoking up. So even those in the 12 step programs that are now chemically addicted, the cause of their addiction isn't the addiction.   And this is why we are all in the same group. Because anyone who went through trauma abuse or neglect, have the same cause of their resulting behavioral challenges. Its thier feelings.     



And then the main point of this article. 

Desires cause some behavior, yet desire can be controlled. If there is a reason that someone can't control his desires, then we need to look to the underlying reasons that are making him unable to control his desires. -Feelings.      In summary, all of us have the same struggle. Some of us have another struggle too, a chemical addiction too. -that is why there are the 12 steps.  Some of us have stronger feelings caused by abuse neglect and trauma, making it harder for us to overcome the struggle, because the cause of the struggle is bigger, so the struggle itself is bigger. .....................and some of us don't have a bigger cause or a bigger struggle, but never the less its the same causes -our feelings- and the same struggle -to guardoureyes.  Yes. Some of us have a chemical addiction as well. That doesn't take away the root struggle we all have. It just adds another struggle. 

Human being wrote on 03 Jan 2023 20:08:

I am at a point where I try to post only when I think there may be something to add (Not saying I'm good at judging that, just what I'm trying for). Part of this post may be connected to something I've recently realized. The point has been raised quite a few times that most people who join GYE never post. I believe that part of the reason for that may be that the active members of GYE can be broadly categorized in 2 categories: 1. Clinical addiction/ 12 Step guys 2. People who either before or after they begin the recovery process are dealing with or uncover underlying trauma, abuse, or other emotional factors. The "Normal Guy who just gave in to his Yetzer Hora too much" isn't heard from much here to be honest. This is not a criticism of GYE or any of the wonderful guys here, just an observation. Not everyone has an underlying hole they're trying to fill in a clinical term. (I do) Just like anyone who eats food isn't filling a hole in the psyche. The normal sexual attraction is the normal sexual attraction. It's not caused by underlying damage. It's objectively natural and healthy, and many guys who struggle with porn and masturbation have ingrained bad habits, but not necessarily an underlying psychological issue, self- medication, or substance abuse issue. And because healthy guys have this drive and there is more availability then ever before, more guys will fall and need places like GYE. Then they will BE"H join, look around the forum, see that they're not alone (Which for a normal guy is a key part of recovery), maybe post once or twice, and hopefully start the process of getting better working with whomever they choose. But Lav Davka should they even be sticking around on this forum except maybe for accountability posts every once in a while. Just my opinion. Please disagree if you do.

DavidT wrote on 04 Jan 2023 17:38:

Oysh!! I’m gonna be in violation of long posts here 

David, very few people come on asking if therapy is a good idea. When a brother asks and is already interested, I personally believe the right answer is to support and recommend it.

Of course connection is good, but that’s one of the things a professional can provide on a regular basis and is one of the core benefits of a therapist (granted it costs, but worthwhile), which isn’t always easy to find with trying to partner on gye…
I’m just saying. And btw I have a therapist 

unicode wrote on 04 Jan 2023 02:14:

Based on the facts of many people on this forum, one of the most important points to be able to keep on going strong is to have a good steady connection with other people on this issue and stay away of isolation.
Several times, Hashem repeated, “It is good” in the creation of the world story. Do you remember what broke his streak? When he saw man alone, he said, “It is not good.” Sure enough, man got in trouble when he isolated. You need to surround yourself with a few friends, a recovery group, and an accountability partner.
The opposite of addiction is not sobriety - it's CONNECTION. Addiction thrives on isolation! Find someone that you can share your pain and struggles with. And finally, have someone who can cheer you on and celebrate your both big and small wins with you!

As it states in the “Tzetyl Kattan” of the Noam Elimelech:
Find yourself a Rabbi or a good friend that you can share all of your evil thoughts and imaginations that go against the Torah. Don’t omit anything because of shame. This breaks the power of the Evil Inclination from influencing you. In addition you will receive good advice from your friend. This is highly worth it.

Human being wrote on 03 Jan 2023 22:14:

Later in your post you mention that if you had access to gaming, you would have possibly escaped the boredom/unproductive feelings using that venue.  Based on that i would suggest you develop a list of healthy or even semi healthy outlets when you need an escape. We all need a break from reality at times, and outlets are beneficial. Maybe gaming is not the suggestion most would choose due to its potentially addictive nature, lack of productivity, as well as its connecting one with the wrong group of people, but you appear to be a well thought through and intelligent person who knows his necessary boundaries. Whether gaming is or is not your "choice", there are so many possibilities for "occasional replacement for missing chavrusa" syndrome. Of course, if this is a very frequent occurrence it may be time to look for a new one. 

One other thing to keep in mind. A fellow who is clean BH for an extended period of time and acts out in an extreme situation (such as yours), should realize, "Ok, BH i have learned how to stay clean in most typical normal situations. I can assume that i will continue staying clean on regular weekdays, Shabbos, etc. I know that i have to plan better for tougher matzovim, but meanwhile i should not assume i am going back to the regular daily struggle. I graduated from that, and b'ezras Hashem will retain that purity."

Hello everyone,
I've been using this platform for some time, and honestly haven't read so much in the forums. But in case anyone is looking for Chizuk, I've found that getting married helped me tremendously. That, and my willpower.

Everyone's experience with this will be different, but let me bullet this in an attempt to condense my experience:

• Exposed at 16 by accident from a stupid advertisement.
• Fighting the urge ever since, and feeling guilty every time I succumb.
• Almost 8-9 years in with this addiction.
• Didn't own a smartphone until after Yeshiva, but that didn't stop me from finding other ways.
• I currently use NextDNS.io instead of a regular filter to block bad websites and ads (DNS-level) because I hate the slowness & inconveniences of most filters these days.
• In the past, I would limit the sin to as quickly as possible to get the feeling to go away, and have practiced trying to get only 10 mess-ups a month, then 9 next month, then 8, etc.
• Everything would come crashing down when I failed.
• Personal hardest time of week was Motzei Shabbos/Sunday.
• I tried different alternative outlets (video games, YouTube, etc.), but sometimes got triggered from a single exposed image.
• I also tried focusing less on permanent abstinence and more on 2 weeks at a time, to simulate marriage and Niddah periods.

What changed:

• Having gotten married recently helped me out extremely.
• Only needing to wait 2 weeks in theory is giving my brain practice (like developing a normal food schedule).
• Opening up to my wife about my addiction, though many will find this hard, is also very helpful to me. She is supportive and understanding, and just having that makes me feel so much better. It's that emotional connection that my brain really needed.
• Its actually quite funny because there were several points when I didn't even want Biah, I just wanted intimacy and closeness, hugging, having someone by my side and a supportive companion. That is something you will never get from a video. That emotional closeness is so valuable and priceless, no video will ever be able to come even remotely close. This is something only an intimate relationship can provide.

I hope someone finds this helpful.

It's important to believe in yourself and love yourself. And to identify your triggers and try to prevent them. But having gotten married, paired with my will to want to succeed and to make my marriage work, has propelled me this far! Thank you Hashem for helping me reach my goal finally!

For those who are addicts, meetings are an incredible yeshua, and those individuals should be encouraged to go. I am in touch with a number of great fellows who have benefited greatly, and/or are presently being helped by SA meetings.