I beg to differ. You don't want to be under the control of any addiction. Even if it is intrinsically benign.

Yosef Hamevakesh wrote on 04 Apr 2023 23:05:

Hey Yosef Hamevakesh,
Sometimes things may be uncomfortable and embarrassing, but the following future of “what’ll be next” arises, will there be a decision to be worked on and help advance yourself or not. Clearly you want to seek therapy, it’s hard to do but will it get you further down the right goal or the opposite?.. One thing although I could be wrong, I wouldn’t view myself as an “addict” with a problem... although when your major a problem that’s how you get it solved. I would use better term like I have a struggling problem as a lot of people with tayvos for girls etc.. Which Hashem placed in me, I need to work on putting gedarim to help advance myself, more and more!

The idea of an addict in porn, drugs, cigarettes... it is very hard to work against it because you have “labeled” yourself and now must push against the grind and work on yourself! As oppose to.. many people have a struggling urge commonly often within the days/weeks and now I must figure out what I can do about it. 
just a change in thought is what I am expressing..
Bhatzlacha Yosef Hamevakesh!!

chancy wrote on 04 Apr 2023 16:16:

Sorry but I don't find this idea very compelling. Assuming that masturbation can ever be classified as an addiction, there's nothing wrong with having an addiction unless it interferes with your ability to live your life, which is generally not the case with me. That's obviously without bringing religion into the picture, which I am purposely not doing, because I don't currently find religious considerations to be motivating for me at this point. I hope that changes soon.

Anyways thanks for weighing in,
OivedElokim

I think you should re-read this post. This could be a game changer if you are willing to think about it for a few minutes. 


Hi Reb Oived, 

There is one aspect that i haven't seen mentioned here. 
One of my main reasons to stop falling with P and M was and is simply so as to not be addicted! I want to be free, andi will not have a small part of my brain control me! When you think o about it, you will realize that im right. 
Imagine sitting somewhere with friends or family and having a good time, when all of a sudden someone catches your eye, and thats it, you cant think of anything else because you are being controlled! All you want now is to float away into fantasy land or to M or watch P to make the feeling stronger. Thats as addiction, and i dont want to be addicted to anything! I started drinking a bit of alcohol on shabbos, but I refuse to touch it during the week, I DO NOT WANT TO GET ADDICTED! Same thing with any addiction. Be free to live the life you want, and being addicted is not being free. 
I think you should think about this motivation, as its very powerful and has nothing to do with religion really or relationships, ITS ABOUT YOU!
I want to walk on the street without having to turn around to look at everything, i want to go weeks without having any impure thoughts, I want to be holy and pure because i like that feeling! Thats it!

Good luck

guardyoureyes.com/support
www.reliefhelp.org/

hello and welcome!

first of all, i commend you on so much you've done, coming from a secular home to being strongly invested in an orthodox way of life is a big deal, and an inspiration for us all.
regarding your question there's a lot to unpack regarding your question, and i'll make a couple points:

1. where you find your strugle to be a disadvantage (you can't filter yourself), you can also see it as an advantage. cuz when you target down the strugle that specific, you can better understand the root cause and help solve it. (whereas someone struggling w porn as well, might have it harder understanding what they're lacking that brings them to p/m)

2. advise you'll see around alot: exercise. get your heart running. scientifically, masturbation releases anxiety and relaxes the body. exercising is a good substitute to that, and can reduce the urges.

3. you're right on target about what kind of therapist to look for. unfortanatly we hear too many stories of therapists who did more damage then good. 
there are some great organizations that help you find the kind of therapists you described, you can find they're info on the home page of this site (i think). 

hope you find some of this helpful, looking forward to growing together

Everything you said about mindfulness, meditation, getting new hobbies, prayer, and accepting that breaking bad habits is a process makes immediate sense and is easy for me to accept.

What you say about getting a therapist, i.e professional support, is tough for me to accept (Even though intellectually I acknowledge it's likely good advice) I have had therapists during my childhood, and they violated my trust.  Additionally I've worked in a industry that works closely with mental health, and in my case working on the inside further decreased my trust in the mental health industry.  I apologize if me "venting" about that wastes time from productive solutions, it's strong feelings I have that I may need to expose, in order to resolve.


Is anyone reading this aware of good resources to help find G~d fearing therapists, and counselors?  I think having G~d fearing, jew who is trained in the science of mental health would be substantially better than the alternative ( a mental health professional who is wicked, and lives a life absent of Torah).

I will say that in general, I believe (in most cases) the things that are hardest/ most uncomfortable to accept, are the most important. So specifically, with that in mind I do feel your advice about seeking professional help to treat this addiction is probably important for me, and others who would at first avoid it at all costs.

Suffice to say thank you for your time, and (good) advice!

Yes, many people have experienced addiction to masturbation without pornography. It's important to seek help from a therapist or counselor to deal with the underlying emotional triggers that may be causing these urges. A support group may also be helpful because sharing experiences with others who have similar struggles can provide motivation and strength. Finding new hobbies, activities, and routines can help to distract the mind when feeling strong urges. Practicing mindfulness, meditation, and prayer can also provide tools to stay focused and reduce the intensity of these urges. Finally, it's essential to remember that breaking any habit is a process, and setbacks are to be expected. By being patient, persistent, and focusing on making progress, recovery from addiction is possible.

Does anyone have to experience of being addicted to masturbation, without the addiction to pornography?

For me this is the case, and when the urges are strong, they are very strong.  In a sense it is more scary because I feel that if one is addicted to pornography, they can takes steps to limit their supply/access being that pornography is something that is outside one self.

When I have urges to masturbate, and strong sexual visuals (fantasies, memories, etc.) I feel there is no escape, there is no filter I can install on my thoughts, and many of the specific visuals come back, again and again. 


I am curious if anyone has a had similar experience specifically if they were able to over come it.


Just a bit of a background I grew up secular, and came into orthodox Judaism about a year ago it has been a gradual but overall drastic process; I went from a completely secular lifestyle not even knowing that Jews have prayer services every day, to putting teffilin everyday, and davening with a minnyan virtually every day, eating kosher, shomer shabbos, and trying to do more every day.

To be frank I did watch pornography in my secular days, however when I came to being observant it was a  easy thing to give up, I don't even remember much of a struggle.  It seemed like a basic next step, not consuming this unholy material

However my issue with masturbation remains strong after all this time (part of it is now I recognize it as a very serious problem whereas before I didn't see it as a real issue).  I know I have slowly gotten better (by recognizing the issue, struggling through it, and working to end this behavior) however this is very far from enough.  If anything I feel my urges are stronger than before; at worst I feel paralyzed by them.  I am scared to go home because when I know the yetzer hara is there waiting for me, I feel there is no escape, and I know there is NO EXCUSE for my actions.

Most of them are memories of things that sexual aroused me, specific interactions with women in real life (and fantasies about these women) and to a lesser extent memories of pornography I watched before, even memories of past times I masturbated and how it felt.

I had a 10 day clean streak which was a long one for me (I just joined the site, so I never kept close track) I started to feel like the urges were subsiding, but the yetzar hara came back with a serious vengeance, the fall felt worse than before, and it has been hard getting up.  I know it will get better with time Bezrat HaShem!  But right the yetzer hara is working really hard trying to pull me down.

I am asking if anyone has had a similar experience and what help them be sucessful

chancy wrote on 30 Mar 2023 16:09:

אמת

I’m trying to find the belance between hishtadlut and Bitachon without falling too far into either extreme. It’s a fine line! 

btw 

(This post will serve as both a recap of how I made it here, and simultaneously as a letter of gratitude to Hashem and my supporting cast.)

5 years ago, I was sleeping at home alone for a couple of weeks while my family was on vacation. The computer I was using was filtered, but I needed the password for a (normal) site that was inadvertently blocked. My parents gave it to me without question (probably thinking that I wouldn't remember it, as it was long and complicated). You can probably see where this is going.

Just a few days later, I saw something that caught my eye on Vimeo. (Figure out what it was.) In a few hours, I went from watching the clips on Vimeo to Google searching various terms and phrases. Most of the links I clicked on were blocked by the filter at first, but of course, that no longer was an obstacle. Soon, I was spending my entire nights (literally) watching the Vimeo clips and looking at images-with nobody around to notice-and breaking down in tears in the morning, thinking what an awful creature I was to do such a thing. When my family came back, I resolved to never view such filth again.

But just a month later, I went back to bypassing the filter. As I went from images to actual sites and videos, I was so shocked by what I saw-I didn't know such things existed growing up-but was desensitized quicker than you could blink. (Quick note: I have never struggled with masturbation, not even once. I simply don't have an urge to do it-I'm not sure why, since the struggles with P&M are often connected, but hey, I'm not complaining.) As I began to get addicted, I realized I had to get help, and thus joined GYE soon after.

This was 5 years ago. In all that time (fast-forwarding a bit here), despite frequent use of GYE and trying almost every tactic in the book (from TAPHSIC to the partner program to getting the entire filter changed-all without telling my parents about my struggles), I never once hit 90 days clean.

Until now.

Today is my 91st day clean. And I feel better than I ever have, physically, spiritually and personally.

So, first and foremost, I am overflowing with gratitude to the Ribono Shel Olam, Who has given me everything in my life and continues to be with me at every single moment. I love You, and will never forget that not only are You are the one and only king of the world, but also my eternal, everlasting, loving father. Thank you for everything.

But before I thank everybody else who has helped me along the way, I'd like to share what tactics and strategies helped me along the way (in no particular order of importance).

1) STAY AWAY FROM ANY POTENTIAL PITFALLS. I know I said I'm not writing in order of importance, but the significance of this rule cannot be overstated. Do not put yourself in any situation that could trigger or lead you to fall in any way. To give some examples, never use an unfiltered device for any reason (even if it's not yours, such as a public computer in a library or airport), block mostly harmless sites that will still serve as triggers regardless of their purpose (we all have these-don't convince yourself "I need it", or "It's really not that bad"-DON'T TAKE THE CHANCE), get off of social media if you have it (you will ALWAYS wind up seeing things you don't want to see on Twitter, Facebook, and ESPECIALLY Instagram), and stop watching movies that have even remotely edgy content. It just compounds the problem if you're not setting up safeguards.

2) GET HELP. Talk to somebody-be it a Rebbi, therapist, GYE mentor or even your parents if you feel comfortable (I didn't, because B"H I found that my miracle working therapist and the incredible GYE mentor I had-more on him later-were enough). It obviously depends on your situation and the Rebbi/therapist/parents in question, but if you trust them and love them, go for it. It will pay enormous dividends, both practically and mentally.

3) BE REMORSEFUL, BUT NOT GUILTY. This comes from a line I read in the book "Positive Vision" by R' Avraham Neuberger: "It is important to distinguish between destructive guilt and constructive remorse." Guilt doesn't help-it just makes you feel lousy and weak. Remorse is regret-feeling bad about the ACT, not yourself. The difference between the two makes an enormous difference.

4) BELIEVE. Not just in Hashem and his omnipotence (which of course is necessary), but in YOURSELF. You are stronger than you know, and the fact that you are committed to fighting this monster that is now rampant in our world is proof. Keep fighting, stay strong, and never tell yourself that you are a loser/bum/Rasha/failure or any other form of negativity. You are a fighter and a warrior. Remember that. 

And now for the rest of the thank you's. 

To my miracle worker of a therapist, you know who you are. Your care, support, advice and guidance have played a role in my life that cannot be overstated. I wouldn't be here today without you. Thank you.

To my incredible aforementioned GYE mentor, Hashem Help Me (HHM), THANK YOU. It all started to turn around when I picked up the phone just under a year ago and spoke to you for the first time. The phenomenal and incredibly meaningful guidance, help and support you have given me over the last year have been indispensable in my growth. Without you, I wouldn't be where I am today. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

To my parents: you will probably never see this, as you may not be aware of this monster that I've been fighting for so long, but your love for me is what kept me going throughout the worst of times. You're the best parents in the world. I love you, and thank you for everything.

And finally, to my fellow fighters: thank you for all of the support, motivation and Eitzos you've given me over the years. But as we (hopefully!)all know, 90 is just a milestone. It's not the end. When push comes to shove, it's just another day. Time to move onward and keep climbing. The fight goes on.

One last time: Thank You Hashem.

May we all merit to keep making Hashem proud as we continue to fight the Yetzer Hara and make a Kiddush Hashem every day, and may we be Zoche to see Moshiach come Bimheira Viyameinu!

With grit and gratitude,

FWF

chaimkahn wrote on 31 Mar 2023 06:51:

Call Relief for a referral.  Any sexual addiction therapist should be able to help with this. 

OivedElokim wrote on 27 Mar 2023 13:59:

Hi Reb Oived, 

There is one aspect that i haven't seen mentioned here. 
One of my main reasons to stop falling with P and M was and is simply so as to not be addicted! I want to be free, andi will not have a small part of my brain control me! When you think o about it, you will realize that im right. 
Imagine sitting somewhere with friends or family and having a good time, when all of a sudden someone catches your eye, and thats it, you cant think of anything else because you are being controlled! All you want now is to float away into fantasy land or to M or watch P to make the feeling stronger. Thats as addiction, and i dont want to be addicted to anything! I started drinking a bit of alcohol on shabbos, but I refuse to touch it during the week, I DO NOT WANT TO GET ADDICTED! Same thing with any addiction. Be free to live the life you want, and being addicted is not being free. 
I think you should think about this motivation, as its very powerful and has nothing to do with religion really or relationships, ITS ABOUT YOU!
I want to walk on the street without having to turn around to look at everything, i want to go weeks without having any impure thoughts, I want to be holy and pure because i like that feeling! Thats it!

Good luck

For some people trusting and letting go is the hardest thing! For others, not so hard. 
​I completely understand you. It is the hardest thing for me too. Im going to therapy for this reason. 
My therapist was laughing when i told him that i think overcoming a sex addiction is easier then trusting anyone...... he says most people would disagree with me. But i said that overcoming and addiction seems and feels like its in our hands you just have to try harder and work harder... but when it comes to things that i have Absolutly no control over, it freaks me out. 
So we got to the point where i have to learn that we really dont do anything much, we were bought here and we have a finite amount of years to be here and a finite amount of wisdom and wealth and health that's already prescribed to us before we were born. Noting much changes.
Yes, every Rosh Hashana, our books are examined to see if some minor changes need to be adjusted (sometimes it looks major to us, im taking about the bigger picture), but overall everything is already prescribed. 
We Must remember that Hashem is not constrained to time, He is now and before and in the future at the same time. So we cant control anything really. 
The only thing that is semi in our control is how we want to feel and what we want. Are we turning to Hashem? do we want to feel Him? Do we trust Him? Or do we rather want to get lost in this false world and forget the truth? 

I hope you are understanding what im trying to say, these are very deep things.... 
My point is, just let go, do what is normal to do at work, dont overwork, leave time to learn, daven, help at home and be with the kids. 
Try to do mitzvos as best you can, fight the YH as much as you can, and the rest leave up to Him. 

Eerie wrote on 29 Mar 2023 23:29:

Amazing 1000001% agree! I couldn’t have said it better myself!!!