Hilieger Rabbi Moishe! 

I have so much to say my fingers are already hurting me. But i dont want to write a whole drusha now. Ill do it anyway........................ 

I wont say i understand a little of what you are going thru, no, i understand EXACTLY what you are going thru. 
How, you ask? Because i was in the same boat for a very very long time. 
I never felt loved by anyone, felt worthless, freak, rusha, the whole nine yards. And I am BH smart. It didnt help a bit. 
Untill today i can hardly accept a compliment from anyone. I learned at a much younger age how to use M and P as a pacifier for my feelings. too young.....

It took my almost 25 years to gain some sort of control over these addictions. The first win was getting to GYE! Untill that, nothing worked. 
The worst thing is thining that you are the only one and that you are sick. This is literally fuel for addiction! So coming here and finding out that im not alone! Im not even the worst! There are RL people that are in much deeper stuff that myself! Wow! that in itself helped a lot. 

I worked thru the Flight to Freedom program on GYE, it gave me so much insight and so many tools. It changed my mind. I went from blaming myself and thinking that something is wrong with me, to understanding how this addiction works. That gave me the ability to distance myself from these desires. I didnt identify with my addictions. I am not a Rusha!!! I have a YH thats a RUSHA and he got me addicted and so my brain and body wanted the fix that comes with it. So the same way you taught your brain how to get addicted, you can train it to become un-addicted!

Welcome home brother! 
Stick around, learn from others, work the programs, use the tools, keep posting.
YOU WILL GET BETTER

Love 
Chancyhk

simchastorah wrote on 17 Mar 2025 21:20:

 I tend to disagree with the premise that people do not have Yiras shamayim. I agree that there there are some people who meet your description. (I shudder thinking that it may be me) The majority I would say do have  at least some minimal level of it. There are some very chashuva people who struggle with this stuff. Speak to HHM. He can tell you what type of people he deals with. But that is beside the point. We can agree to disagree.  I obviously do not know everything and it is possible that I am wrong.
The point i was trying to make was that once I was doing this on a more consistent basis, it almost felt like I had no bechira. It does not make  a diff if I was technically "addicted" or not. I could be screaming at myself "Don't do it, don't do it!" and do it anyway while I am screaming. The reason being that I did not know how to deal with it. I believe that this YH is diff then many others in that regard. It was like what the gamra says putting a kid on the doorstep of a bais znus and expecting him not to sin? What GYE does is to  give us the tools to fight it. It makes it a fight we can win.

Again, I have been wrong before and will be wrong again. But that is how I see it.

BenHashemBH wrote on 17 Mar 2025 13:47:

Really really great post BHBH. I'll just amplify with some thoughts you inspired.

The search is part of the thrill. That's just part of the way people are wired. Hunting looking searching and being rewarded with the little jolt of pleasure for finding is major part of the way we are built.

When we're deep in the mud it's looking for the perfect clip with the perfect person doing the perfect thing. When we're less deep in the mud it's looking for the best picture that can sneak through the filter. Searching and finding in some ways is even more addictive than simply going for a quick fall. There's an endless ocean of potential out there, and fishing in there and getting rewarded with a little bit of dopamine each time you find something new or better is addictive.

As someone who has struggled endlessly with this area of the struggle, I know what BHBH wrote can be much easier said than done. But it's very important to know that it's all part of the same lust.

It's very helpful to also stop and ask yourself what are you trying to do. Sometimes the answer might be "get worked up until I can justify to myself that I "need" to act out." Sometimes the answer might be "escape from where I am now," or "get a li'l hit of 'filtered' lust." Or even "I don't want anything this is just habit". Or it might be a totally different answer. Point is that once you recognize that you are doing something very lustful you can ask why.

I apologize if this was unclear. Coffee hasn't kicked in fully. I think this is included in what BHBH wrote but I'm just sharing how it resonated with this particular filter poker.

Edit: R' Yoshi maybe you'll appreciate this. Even with all this philosophizin' the only consistent way I've found of avoiding filter poking is severely limiting my personal use of internet. Very much an all or nothing approach. If even the very first initial poke is avoided then the cascade can be stopped before it starts.

Thank you for your response, my dear friend.

I just want to add some nuance to what I'm saying. As I’m trying to express here, I’m not even at the stage where this is about whether it’s forbidden or permitted. When I reach that stage, then yes, I will be able to start seeing it more through the lens of mitzvah/avera in relation to my actions.

Right now, I’m at a stage where it’s completely automatic. I feel bad, I feel disconnected from myself, like I’ve lost awareness of my own state (I’ve already spoken in this topic about certain phases I go through). Instinctively, I turn to seeking excitement as a way to shake myself up a bit and search for pleasure. But this excitement that I feel during the search is even more deeply ingrained in me than the habit of M.

Recently, I have been able to recognize this addiction mechanism within myself. My first step is to bring myself back to a place where there is a real conflict between the Yetzer Hatov and the Yetzer Hara. When I do these searches, it’s not that I’m deliberately trying to “wake the bear.” As I said, I’ve reached a point where seeing P actually disgusts me. (Of course, I agree that if you awaken your Yetzer Hara, it will consume you, and you will fall.) But right now, this is more about the work of a 31-year-old man who realizes that he still has a 12-year-old child inside him—one who never dealt with certain issues.

And because it's a child, he doesn’t even ask questions; he just does what he wants. When certain triggers arise, he instinctively searches for the excitement of discovering something “new” or “hidden” online, things he has never seen before. But now, he is no longer 12—he is 31. And there are things in his life that matter to him much more than that momentary excitement. He needs to address certain unresolved issues to finally be able to make a real choice.

I hope to reach the stage you describe as soon as possible. And when I do, I will also repeat to myself: “This too is pornography.” And I hope that I will be able to stop myself before even starting.

yoshi wrote on 17 Mar 2025 09:24:

Shalom Brother Yoshi,

This sort of excitement, the thrill of the chase can be hard to shake, especially once you've begun and the longer you are in the chase, the harder it is to exit.

One reason may be that it is a rationalization. I have a filter, so I might (probably will) find something, but I tell myself it's less deliberate and it's not absolute. But recognize that is a fallacy. Looking at a woman's little finger for purposes of lust is still assur, even though it's just a pinky. 

If you can foresee the outcome and see that first poke not as a small thing but as the beginning of a process that leads directly to a big deal, that may help. Especially after the first poke it becomes only more compelling, if it's possible to pause and disconnect for a moment, to try and view your situation objectively. Imagine you are behind a window looking in at yourself and try to see clearly exactly what you are doing. This poke is pornography. This poke is pornography. This poke is pornography. 

Are you curious how many times you can poke a sleeping bear before he wakes up? No! Because that's obviously senseless.
Don't poke the bear.
Don't poke the filter.
Don't look at the pinky.

Don't allow yourself to ignore how you know it ends just because you aren't there yet. If you can really think about it, you know. You know. You know. You know. This poke is pornography.


When you wrestle back your hijacked seichel from the YH, you can see clearly the choice you are making. Yes. Your choice. Don't buy into his game - he's been playing if far longer than we have. There is no such thing as 'just' when it comes to lust. 

Knowing doesn't mean I suddenly become a Malach and never slip even a little; but at least I can stop fooling myself and own my reality. Then, when I start to comprehend my situation, I can start holding myself accountable and become able to assert my koach against it.


I believe in you Brother, that you will succeed in breaking free from this too. Hatzlacha!

Well, yesterday I started searching for P on the internet again, despite the filters I set up for myself. And on top of that, I actually managed to find some. But at this point, I don’t even have the strength to watch it anymore. Every time I come across the hard stuff, I just feel disgusted now.

But the real excitement seems to come from the search itself—trying to find a loophole in my filters, seeing if I’ll finally manage to access those shocking images. I feel like that’s what really excites me. And I realize that this is going to be the second part of my journey: I’m still caught in the grip of addiction, but I know I’ll break free from this part too.

So now, I’m going to create another account—one where I won’t even try to look for shocking images, whether I find them or not.
masturbation: day 54 clean !! 
pornography: Day 0: The Beginning of a New Journey. !!

135* Clean days bh.

I wanted to share a shift in perspective I had recently. A lot of times Hashem sends me messages through what I say to my kids - I do a double take and think "I really should be applying this to myself".

Friday night, my 5 yr old turned on the room light, and the 11 yr old roommate had to choose the bed in another room that wasn't as nice, or share the nicer bed with the 5 yr old. There was a lot of complaining and crying, and the message that came to me to share was "You are in a challenging and uncomfortable situation, but you have choices. You could choose to be upset, stay up and be tired - that is a choice - or you could make the best of the current choices of beds you have. This is how it works a lot in life - there may be some very unpleasant situations you go through, but you always just need to make the best choice of what you have available".

Afterwards I was thinking to myself - I am in a very challenging situation, the likes of which I would have never imagined I would find myself, despite being smart, talented, and capable. I am having tremendous challenges with supporting my wife who has been not well since shortly after we got married, chronically sick for 11 years, bedridden for most of the past 6 years, and struggles to digest food for over a year. Past 3 months have not been good. I've been taking care of her and 5 young kids this whole time. She has pushed me and all the kids to be on a very strict diet, so I have to make all their meals myself. I'm running around all day to make her food and go shopping and the requests change constantly. A ton of supplements, essential oils etc. so it feels like any money I make or support I receive goes right out the door. 

My previous job cut my pay in half recently. I am on the path to launching a rehabilitation program which has a lot of potential but is struggling to get off the ground. My psychologist partner in this program has an innovative method to share the message that --- a person always has choices, and has to make the best choice available all the time, under any circumstance.  So I need to share this message - but actually, I more than anyone else needs to hear and learn this message big time.

I am reflecting on the underlying message of addiction: "Because of _____, I have no choice but to turn to ______ in order to______ ".  Essentially, that is the message of SA, that I am powerless, and I took that message to heart but never fully turned my will over to Hashem. But I think that for me, the healthier and more helpful message is: I may be in an extremely challenging situation, and its true I have been running after unhealthy content, P&M for 30 years - but I DO have a choice TODAY. I actually have a lot of choices to make throughout the day. And even if I made some less healthy choices in the morning, I still have to make better choices in the afternoon, and tomorrow etc.  And Hashem gives me these choices because He believes I have the capability of making the better choice. And wherever I have no choice, i have to have acceptance that this is the will of Hashem who wants the best for me and will make everything turn out great in the end.

This perspective shift has pulled me out of my negative attitudes a lot and gain serenity, and I hope I can keep holding on to it. 

Thank you to all those who are reading this, maybe its poshut for you, but if it inspires you or reminds you to make a better choice, it was worth my writing. And even if it doesn't, I needed to write it anyway, so I hope you'll excuse me for taking your time - especially since it was your choice to read it. 

Been speaking with a few people, and I heard the same thing from 2 of them, so I thought I’ll share something I think is obvious, just in case some people don’t. 

There’s a tremendous amount of validation that’s shared on this site. So many posts all point to the fact, that despite the fact that one has sinned, it doesn’t change the fact that one can still be good person, an 'עובד ה, even a Tzaddik. It’s just that he has struggles that bring him down, from time to time, sometimes all the time, perhaps he’s an אונס, because he started when he was young, and didn’t have the right perspective yet. All this is 100% true and must be conveyed to any person that comes on looking for Chizzuk, seeking validation. 

However, I’ve recently spoken to a couple of people that have dabbled with the more serious end of the struggles that go on over here (in person encounters), and they each told me that the reason they even entertained these actions was because there was so much validation, so they thought, if I do this and this, it doesn’t change the fact that I’m a good person so I might as well indulge and enjoy.

I’m not ח"ו suggesting that we tone down the validation that’s peddled on the site, to the contrary, we should ramp it up, validation is one of those things that you can never do enough of, however, it must be given over with a clear understanding, that although one who sins can still be considered a good person, it doesn’t change 2 simple facts. The עבירה is a terrible one, and the blemish it creates on a Neshomo is an awfully ugly one, which isn’t easy to remove. You may still be a good guy, but good guys are capable of doing terrible things. Secondly, and more importantly, nothing destroys your life more then an addiction of any sort. The addiction to lust, in all its variations, colors, and shades, can completely mess up your עולם הזה. It goes without saying that people that are at the point of acting out in person, are putting themselves at great risk. Their risking losing their marriages, families, health, and so much more. Just yesterday, I heard that a guy in my city was the victim of extortion, after hooking up with some זונה, by her manager, who took a picture of this guys license, and threatened to contact his family, unless he paid a ridiculous amount of money. But even the guys who’s struggles are “only” screen based, just go through some of the posts that depict the tremendous pain people are in. What it does to marriages, kills the possibility of genuine relationships, the yucky feeling of hypocrisy that robs one of any semblance of מנוחת הנפש. Worst of all, as detailed so accurately in this post, it will never satisfy. One thinks, if I only indulge in this sight, that’ll be it. Never happened, never will. It’s like salt water, you think your quenching your thirst, only to find yourself more thirsty then you were before. It’s just not worth it.

Best wishes to all, for a truly Freilichen Purim!!!

Dov wrote on 09 May 2019 21:13:

Powerful.

Btw if you click the original poster's username, you'll see he made his account five years before this thread.

Carpe diem boys!

Edit: ProudYungerman paid better attention than me to what was flying here, and pointed out that the user "Nate" made the account five years before this thread, which was started by a new account "Nate3030." V'dok.

Current Streak: 1 Loss
Total Wins: 66 days
Total Losses: 3 days
Winning Percentage: 95.65%

Meh
Had a setback yesterday. Had a big frustration/stress trigger on Sunday. Managed to fight it off for a bit but eventually caved on Monday. I'm back on track now. 

The good news is that the source of the setback was different than my previous two setbacks, which were on my work phone. (I can't customize filter settings due to corporate standardization. And yes, I do know that watching P on my work phone, even during non-work hours, is a really dumb idea, but I'm an addict so that's how we roll.)

This setback was on my personal phone via the app store, which I need opened from time to time. (Couldn't really access any real P, because my website filter was still active even though the appstore was open, but still found some text/audio P to M to.)
But if I'm going to be honest with myself, I don't need to update my apps as often as I tell myself. So, the takeaways from the past 3 setbacks are:

1) Keep my work phone locked in my desk at work (I've been doing this, which is why my current reset wasn't on work phone) and don't take it out unless I am on work travel. Which is basically never. I actually didn't ask for a work phone, they just gave one to me. I tried getting out of it, but my manager was like "it'll come in handy. you should have one." 

2) Don't get the Appstore unlocked by wife unless absolutely necessary. Relock it ASAP afterwards.   

3) Also, I'll try to let the chevra know in advance if I need to use my work phone or the appstore on my personal phone so I have some accountability and will check in afterwards to make sure I stayed out of trouble. 

Time2Win

A little CPR to this thread
I found reading a few books on addiction to be helpful, it gave me a sense of understanding what I was going through as well as some direction to work on it. However some of the books can be triggering and might not be the best idea if you're not an addict.
Out of the shadows - Patrick Carnes
The Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous
The White Book

I've been slipping and sliding a lot lately, went on a long run yesterday which was great but spent the whole time checking out all the women in the park. Today also found myself taking many drinks in the street. tried some of my old tried and true methods and they helped a bit, but I think the fight has gone out of me. It seems like it's time for renewed motivation and a clarity in what the struggle is, what is it costing me, what do I want to accomplish and what will bring me long term happiness.
An interesting thought I had today concerning some of the negative beliefs that come along with addiction: If someone doesn't understand my pain then they will not take care of me and support me. This is a strong belief I have and it morphs into more destructive ideas, such as: If they don't understand me they don't care about me, If they would know what I struggle with since they don't understand it they would think me strange and leave me. I can't trust you to give me the help and care that I need because you don't understand what I'm going through.
I used to think this was a bit strange, just because someone doesn't understand the pain I go through why does that mean they don't care for me and won't support me?
But today I had a nice mashul which helped me get clarity: If you go to a doctor and tell him your head hurts, and he thinks that you just have a headache, he will give you advil. But in reality you have a migraine caused by a tumor. So if the person you are turning to for help truly doesn't know what you mean when you are describing your pain, and they don't understand what is going on underneath the pain and the need to use, and they have no idea how to help even if they would understand, then it makes sense that they wouldn't be able to give you the care and support you need.
For me this is helpful to come to terms with going to SA and staying on the vaad. To get the support and care that I need as I go through troubled times and try to stay clean, I need people who understand the pain and struggle.
But it's also good to acknowledge that these beliefs are not %100 true, others can care and support me, although I may need additional support from "experienced members". And not everyone would abandon me if they knew the internal struggles I have, though I don't have much proof for this except for the fact that I've learnt about others' intense struggles and haven't abandoned them, so I hope the same is true of others.
A Freilichen Monday Everyone!

Hello Everyone, 
I have (too) much to say on this subject.................... so here goes. I dont know if anyone will get something out of it but hopefully........

I can definitely agree that since stopping these behaviors my emotional health has gotten worse. 
Let me rephrase that, it hasn't "gotten" worse. I just feel it much more and i am aware of them. 
For over 20! years, I used sex and sexual stimulation take over whenever i felt any uncomfortable emotion, i wasn't even aware that i was doing. I was doing it since before i was aware what emotions are............. As a very young boy i was a very scared and emotional kid, nobody understood me, i had no friends, my family wasn't very emotionally healthy, so i found this pacifier that made everything feel good. I could escape for hours into that wonderful world of bliss..............by the time it learned how problematic this is, i was already hooked. It took me decades to get out of the auto response of reacting to heavy emotions with acting out. 

Now, I know that doing these things only make it much worse, its like doing drugs or getting drunk to escape my issues, it helps for a few minutes but then you have more problems than before.... So I stopped. 
But since then, my emotions are a mainstay, I am always aware of them, I feel every negative bgelive, every fear, every judgment, every sad thought, I overthink everything to the next level. 

So am i better off? Yes, because i am clean and holier then ever before. I am closer to Hashem., My davening and learning are much better! BH! My relationships are better. 
Am i in more pain? No, i dont think so. 
Do I feel my pain more? Yes! Yes, I do. 
What Now? Im learning how to trust Hashem, its not easy, i thought overcoming this addiction is hard............. Bitachon is much harder! 
I have learned and I believe that Hashem uses our lives to teach out how to grow. Sometimes it hurts, sometimes its impossible. But growing we are. 

If all we do is not give up and we keep on getting up (almost) every day, we daven sometimes better and others not so much. We learn and we guard our eyes and ears and mouths among other body and brain parts, we are winning! Sometimes we will feel it and sometimes not. 
But after a while, when we look back and we see the mountain we climbed, we will scream out of joy!!! How didnt we see that we went up? We thought we are just shlepping along on an endless road, when in reality we were climbing into the clouds!!!

Hang in there, Hashem wants you and loves you! 

Day 40->47 clean !!

I feel less and less the need to come to this forum because I have the impression that the sin of masturbation has really distanced itself from me.

Several thoughts come to mind as a result of this reflection. The first is that when we become too confident, that's exactly when the Yetzer Hara takes advantage to make us fall.

The second is that, from my point of view—regarding education and frumkeit—shemirat enayim  is not really a central point. I don’t feel bad when I see an bad dressed woman on the street it's not a big deal  I only feel bad if I start staring and realize that I’m arousing my Yetzer Hara.

In any case, the fact that I’m not very preoccupied with shemirat enayim leaves me open to bad opportunities. For example, unfortunately, I recently happened to come across my wife’s phone code, and her phone is not filtered. At times, I find myself, almost without realizing it, browsing online, searching for P sites—not actually entering them, just "warming myself up." In fact, as I write this, I realize that this has nothing to do with shemirat enayim, but rather that I am not so much addicted to masturbation as I am to provocative images, no matter their level of nudity.

Besides that, I talk a lot about sex, and I realize that it takes up too much space in my internal dialogue. For exemple when I don’t know how to start a conversation with my wife, I use inappropriate sexual jokes to break the ice—even though it annoys her. I tease her a lot with this. I also often find myself imagining inappropriate things. In fact, a big part of my thoughts revolve around sex.

My wife often tells me that I’m obsessed, and I’m starting to realize that this has nothing to do with pornography. There’s an internal mechanism that makes me go in circles around this issue, especially when I’m not at peace with a situation.

Wow... Things are coming out of me that I didn’t expect. It’s tough to realize that, in fact, yes—there is a deep internal mechanism that makes everything revolve around sex. 

I have very mixed feelings about what I just wrote.

I think I've never opened up like this before.

Easy peasy book. Link is in my signature. An interesting read, though it seems like it doesn't work for most folks.

I think the "find the fox" technique in F2F is a variant of the "addictive voice recognition" technique which is a repackaging of the easy peasy method.

Hatzlacha