I came across a must listen shiur for every addict struggling.

Please do yourself a favor and listen to this shiur, and of course comment here what you think about it.

www.torahanytime.com/#/lectures?v=181779

doingtshuva wrote on 31 May 2023 01:54:

I find it very appropriate to quote your signature here:
"אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: אֵבֶר קָטָן יֵשׁ לוֹ לָאָדָם, מַרְעִיבוֹ — שָׂבֵעַ, מַשְׂבִּיעוֹ — רָעֵב" 

(Posting for a friend who shared this with me, not knowing what to do)

He has struggled with P&M since high school but really started taking this nisayon seriously after spending the year learning in Israel. B”H over the last 5 years he has seen a lot of progress. As time went on his streaks got longer and although still struggling he B”H was really improving. He said for the most part if he was really frustrated or anxious that’s when the struggle would come. Any time he was busy and his devices were filtered he was in a good place. He says he thinks that the main aspect of his struggle was rooted in trauma from the loss of a close relative around three years ago. Although he doesn’t feel he was ever addicted he still never truly felt out of the woods. He wasn’t sure when he should start dating but after speaking  to some friends and Rebbiem he felt like he was in a good place to start. He begin dating I was really motivated to stay clean and B”H did. He B”H got engaged to one of the first girl he went out with. After being clean for close to six months and newly engaged he fell. He came to me really distraught asking advice. He really feels terrible and is not sure what to do. Should he see how he bounces back before speaking to a anyone?Should he share this with his kallah? He mentioned that although feeling awful, he is very motivated and will continue to work hard at this challenge. I’ll be totally honest I really didn’t know how to advise him and was hoping the chevreh would have some good eytzuh. 

Tizcu Lemitzvot!

I have been sober in sexaholics Anonymous, a 12 step fellowship, for 26 years one day at a time and I don't want to be in either category you describe above. My life is completely different than the first category you offer and 99% of the sober (gentile as well as frum Jewish) people I know in SA don't fit the first category you give at all, boruch Hashem. 

As far as the second category, I don't consider that a desireable life, either, because I don't see any reference to a partnership with G-d , in it. How is that a beautiful life? Maybe It is for some people, but not for this free and sober addict.  Thanks for letting me share that here. And thanks for your honesty on this thread. 

Small update, things are getting better it would seem; having longer, and more clean streaks, and less falls overall.



I talked with my Rabbi about my issue with masturbation and his main advice was "Don't think about it"  So far this advice has helped me allot, and is the right fit for my situation (keeping in mind this made not be the case for others in the struggle)



Part of not thinking about it for me is going on to this site less, and just not really giving much attention to the issue in terms of finding out more information, or even putting in explicit time or effort to try to fix it.





To be honest there was times I felt going on here, or looking up information about wasting seed (even information on how to stop) was a trigger.  To be clear, that is not always the case.





The other advice I got was "Feel like a hypocrite when doing the sin, not when doing the mitzvahs" That is to say the real me, (and most of us on here) want to learn Torah, Daven, put on Teffilin, etc.



We are actually bad at pretending to be sinners, it's just not who we are.





While I don't think this should be taken literally to be naive, and say G~d forbid we can think of "Pretending to do sins" lightly, it seems to be part of the healthy process of shaping our identity into someone who fears HaShem at all times, and seeks only to serve him.



I hope this helps someone else gain more clarity, into who they really are, despite the struggles they face with the Yetzer Hara.





Thank you again to all who gave their time, and shared advice!

 

movingforward22 wrote on 30 May 2023 15:41:

When my wife is tired or not in the mood for sex, she can tell me that chaval I don't have 2 wives.

With 2 wives, we might end up having sex more often, and it could be that each wife would try to show off better in bed, but, I don't think that it would cure the problem.
2 wives, pretty wife, better sex, more sex...…. just name it, didn't show that it lowers our drive to lust after other women.
By abstaining from self pleasure and from the awful and the most addictive drug called porn, you will start to enjoy something called life.

Don’t know how to make a poll so until then:

if you could choose one group to live in the rest of your life:

A. Person struggling to overcome addiction and overcoming discomfort and pain every day. Sometimes making a lot of money, and sometimes going with nothing for a long stretches of time, and sometimes falling into all kinds of debt. Being accused of things he didn’t do, and having to re-learn basic skills on how to be a decent human being.


VS. 

B. A person whose brain chemistry is stable, consistently, financially secure, maybe from a grandparent’s trust fund that requires milestones and check ins to get the money or from some
other source like a stable and well paying job. Grew up with a team of therapist on mentors to support him along the way.



What would you rather?

Another thought that I am rolling around in my mind is “am I an alcoholic? Am I an addict?“

I do know that whenever I pick up a drink or a joint, it does not satisfy me, rather it whets my appetite and gets me into the mood and increases my appetite for more, more, MORE

It is dining upon me, that I am, possibly in an all likelihood, most probably in denial. 

I can accept that.

Somebody told me tonight that this was the first time in 16 years that he was not drunk during a holiday, and it was really his first time actually experiencing a Jewish holiday.

I have been bitterly recollecting that I was stoned out of my mind for most of this  past Shavuot, and would have even violated Shabbat were it not for my parents finding my stash

Hi everyone,

I’m new around here. My journey seems to be somewhat different than most.

At the age of 16, before I became frum, I found a porn magazine in the local  park, took it home, and tried out masturbation. The experience was exactly what it was supposed to be, and I went back for more, until I ended up with a full blown addiction. I didn’t realize what that really meant at the time, but I did know that it was taking up more of my time than I wanted, and I started to get uncontrollable urges, an urgent feeling in my stomach that I had to take care of it.
At the age of 18, I was convinced to go to yeshiva, and ended up in Yerushalayim. I masturbated my way through that time, and even though I tried to stop, I failed over and over again. I think back and try to imagine how I was able to go into the bathroom in yeshiva, knock one out, and then go to learn Torah.
During my second year there, I was introduced to my wife to be, through mutual friends. We got engaged and were married in 1998. I thought to myself that being married would be the end of my issue, and did end up controlling it for the first year and a half of my marriage, but alas, when I was in Kollel, I messed up again. It was like an old enemy was back. I didn’t look at women or porn, and then get urges to do this, rather I got urges, and then had to find something to look at to relieve myself of the urge. The feeling of being a slave to this addiction was complete and utter hell. I was in a self perpetuating cycle of creating shame upon myself and that stress led me to abuse myself even more, over and over again. I have immense difficulty dealing with stress and confrontation, which were my main triggers. I was able to control myself during different “special times” in my life, and masturbate less, like during pregnancies or shabbos/yom tov, and transitions in life, but could never completely lose it. 
My mother passed away 16 years ago, and during the shiva, I was in the bathroom, coping in the only way I knew how! My emotional shell was so thick, I didn’t cry for my mother, I was acting like the strong one in the family, but the truth is that I put myself in a place that I couldn’t feel or express it! I was broken!
The conversation about this kind of thing was non existent back then. The internet was in it’s infancy and even though I spoke to a few people (rabbis/therapists), I managed to present it in a way of being a habit that was out of control, and the advice was usually benign and general. 
My wife, who is the rock of my life, has always shown me so much love and attention. The problem is that I wasn’t equipped to accept and appreciate it. In my mind, because I was hiding the darkest secrets, I wasn’t able to reciprocate, so I pushed her away, and felt that she was being smothering! The guilt and shame that I imposed upon myself gave me a distorted reality that I wasn’t worthy of her love! THE IRONIC THING IS THAT I WAS PUSHING AWAY THE ONE THING THAT I WAS REALLY LOOKING FOR!!!!!! I didn’t show her the affection that she so deserved. She is beautiful, righteous, loving and my rock, and I pushed her away.
Professionally, I am a very active community leader, teaching and doing other things, usually very loudly. After all, I had to make up for my inadequacies!  
My children were also the other victims of my self abuse. I didn’t spend time with them, or guide them properly. They love me, and I love them, but I don’t have the relationship that I should be having with them.
Then came the ED! I wasn’t able to be with my wife in the proper way. The years of self abuse, secrecy and guilt made my penis stop working properly! STRESS PILES ON STRESS AND BEGETS STRESS!
My wife suspected me over the years, but her intense love for me, combined with my smooth talking made me able to talk her down. At one point, she accused me of being gay! She told me that if I ever did anything like this, she would leave me! I was terrified!!! I couldn’t be without her, certainly not because of my failure to be a husband and proper mate!! I kept this terrible secret to myself, and even though there were a few times I felt an immense desire to tell her, I chickened out and continued in my private world of pain and guilt.
5 years ago, my wife was pregnant with our 11th child, and we found out that there were significant genetic issues with the baby, and my wife became really sick . At some point in this pregnancy, I made another one of my “attempts” to stop my addiction, fully cognizant that it was probably to be a futile effort.  
I don’t know how this happened, but somehow, the One above had mercy on me, and the urges WENT AWAY!!!!  I became free of this self imposed jail, and could now live a more full life. For the last 5 years of being clean, I have certainly accomplished more than before, but I still carried the guilt, shame and secrecy in my heart!  My ED didn’t just continue, but became more significant, with me losing sensitivity in my penis, and going floppy in the middle of relations.  3 months ago, on mikvah night, my penis failed again. We were talking about it afterwards, and my wife mentioned that she read a post on facebook about masturbation causing ED. She confronted me, and I made what was possibly the 2nd most difficult decision in my life……… I owned up to her, partially!  With my heart and stomach in a tumult, I told her that I masturbated twice, 16 years ago, after my mother passed away, because I was confused and concerned about my ED issue, so I needed to check it was working!
This turned into HELL on earth!!! She broke down and became angry, depressed, denial (stages of grief in action!) We went to a couples therapist, who did calm things down, but didn’t get to the bottom of the addiction,rather dealing with the relationship aspect. So my wife’s trauma wasn’t addressed. We went to another, better couple therapist, and I confided in him with regards to the real story.  He said that he doesn’t believe that the healing can happen without me being completely honest!  I desperately wanted to be whole again, and get back to who I should be, both with her and with myself, but the prospect of possibly irretrievably losing her was killing me.
She went to the therapist for a solo session, and he told her that to be healed, things are going to get worse (he didn’t break my confidence, just prepared her). She came back from the session, and told me that she needed to speak. Then she asked me……. “What am I hiding?”.
My entire body went into shock, but I realized that it was time to make the MOST DIFFICULT decision of my life! I told her that I was an addict, and went on to explain the story. I had to explain that I had been living a double life of deceit for 20 years, and holding that secret for a further 5 years.
Since then, life has been a roller coaster of therapy, interrogations, ups and downs. 

I have always loved my wife, and always wanted her in every way. She is a rock, righteous, beautiful and straightforward. She didn’t deserve what I have subjected her to. I cannot  fathom the hell I have put her through.  Unbelievably she loves me and wants to stay.  She has been going from attacking me and my entire being, to showing extreme affection, to showing loss and sadness. I have caused her to feel unloved, unattractive and insecure! What kind of a man does that! 
Now I’m in my mid 40’s and having abused myself for 20 years, I look back and can’t relate to that person. All I have now is my guilt and the knowledge that I have destroyed everything good in my life. For the first time, I truly broke down and cried about my mother’s death, because I began to learn how to show and express the loss and suffering.  I have learned how to tell my wife how I feel about her, how she makes me feel. In the last few months, I have felt satisfaction with my wife like I never have. Through all the suffering I feel more alive and openly expressive to my wife and Hashem than I have for as long as I can remember. I have started learning and davening consistently, going to the mikvah more regularly and being a better husband!!! I am the luckiest SOB in existence! I have no words to express my appreciation and brochos that I have received!

I was davening a few weeks ago, and in my tears I saw and thought the following:

Tehillim 124
A song of ascents. Of David.

Were it not for the LORD, who was on our side, let Israel now declare, were it not for the LORD, who was on our side when men assailed us, they would have swallowed us alive in their burning rage against us;
the waters would have carried us off, the torrent would have swept over us; over us would have swept the seething waters.
Blessed is the LORD, who did not let us be ripped apart by their teeth.
We are like a bird escaped from the fowler’s trap; the trap broke and we escaped.
Our help is the name of the LORD, maker of heaven and earth.

Were it not for Hashem who was on our side when MEN assailed us - the usual understanding is that we need Hashem on our side when enemies rise against us. But I think that it is more than that. It’s not the MAN from without we need protection from, but rather the man WITHIN us, meaning the human instinctual urges that assail us over and over again. We need Hashem to be with us, and without that, the challenge can seem insurmountable. Hashem can break our trap, and we can escape. I never went to any 12 step meetings, but the idea that I am powerless without the protection of the One above carries me through. The seething waters might take us, but we are not completely swept off.


I don’t know what my journey will be from here on. The fear that my relationship with my wife is irreparably destroyed is constantly on my mind. The fear that even if she will stay with me, that I will live a shell of an existence, constantly being reminded for the rest of my days. 

In my loneliness, I couldn’t imagine that anyone lived a similar life as I have. On the GYE website, I don’t see many people who went through this double life for so long or who were given freedom from it spontaneously as I have done. My challenge isn’t to stop myself from doing this abominable act, but to try to repair the gaping holes in my life. I read the challenges that people on this site go through and feel the greatest pity for them and myself. 
Has anyone had a similar journey? What do you do to continue? How do you cope with this?

I have not written or discussed my past much for a very long time as for me that is what it was, the past. But perhaps it is time for me to admit that i am not past my past as much as i would like to believe. Perhaps it will be cathartic, and perhaps explain why I am here today. I was a molested by a relative from ages 6 to twelve. At the time I just ignored it but as they say "the body keeps the score". I was a promising bachur and got accepted into one of the top yehivos here. From early on I started having ocd like symptoms. Shemoneh esrays would take 30 minutes shema close to that. I became obsessed with learning every second and in turn developed animosity towards my fellow students whom i felt leant better than me which in turn made me feel guilty and unworthy. It got so severe that when i heard their voice learning i would lose all focus and spiral into an obsessive anger spiral, "am i good enough does Hashem like me" I literally couldnt learn but i still did day in day out. i accomplished many great things but they meant nothing to me. I felt Hashem hated me and I would constantly pray he take my life. That turned into severe depression and suicidal thoughts. My anger was like a poison and I wanted to destroy all of the students who made me feel the way i did. I could not sleep at night and could not focus on shiur, which my rebbeim did not believe because i was oh so smart. they thought i just wasn't interested. I could go on and on about how this played out and what gehinom it was to live this way but i would have to write a book. Additionally, as many victims do, I developed SSA. It was like being in a school of girls as a young teenager. I felt awful and ashamed. I felt if people would only know what i was thinking... I lost all emotions. Could not feel any love disconnected myself from my parents and the rest of the world and I hated myself with a passion. I had no self esteem so i would tell my story to many people to try and cope or form connections. That didn't work but i did develope some codependent relationships and was told to stay away from by a parent which I guess made sense cause i was attracted to the kid but didn't make me feel any better. I hated Hashem for what he put me through and all the therapy I went through didn't change that. I started having bipolar like symptoms and was put on medication which really, really didn't help. Just made me addicted to it. I floundered through the Yeshiva system and did get some help along the way. With a combination of various therapies I slowly took myself out of my rut and started to live. But along the way being desperate to change my SSA I tried using P to try and change myself. It didn't really work... but it did gain me another problem. I got married which is a miracle because i did not know i was attracted to the opposite gender until that point. But marriage didn't stop the problems. I realized my wife had some extreme problems of her own which are not mine to disclose. Besides that things were constantly going wrong in our lives, we lost our house to a flood 3 months after buying just to name one. I want to believe Hashem is good and kind but the kind of suffering he puts me through sometimes brings back my old extreme emotions. I actually stopped P because I felt Hashem was punishing me for it and now have been clean thanks to that for over 90 days... Not really sure that its sustainable like this though. Maybe just enough to work on some real motivation. Now we are stuck in this tiny apartment uncertain what will be paid for and getting into fights all the time. I am really losing interest in her. Every once in a while I go back to my SSA fears and think maybe I should use P again. I really hope for the future but I really wish I could just live a normal life without disaster after disaster piling up. Anyone who has any thoughts or helpful advice... 
P.S. I found somatic therapy really helpful for trauma, it also is a useful tool for addictions it is definitely something that can help from my experience
Somatic Experiencing Therapy: Definition, Techniques, and Efficacy (verywellmind.com)

Hashem Gave Me Koach wrote on 29 May 2023 13:10:

Falls are painful and dispiriting. It brings us lots of uncomfortable feelings and thoughts. I truly feel for you.

But...

Of course you shouldn't give up. Falling is part of the climb. It's very uncommon for one to just decide to break a bad habit/addiction, and overnight it's gone.

Anyone who's legitimately in it for the long haul will understand that falls are almost inevitable, at least in the beginning, and as long as we learn what led to the fall, and take steps to prevent it (like not to go to that place, not hear that thing, reach out when feeling like that, filter, strategy implementation etc. etc. etc.), then we are continuously growing and nearing our goal.

If however we just get upset and disgusted, and simply start over again all the while convincing ourselves (yet again, and again) that this time will be different because...um because...then we are just spinning our wheels in the sand.

I encourage you to take stock of the order of events, triggers and emotions that led to this fall, educate yourself about them, and actively do something to prevent this from happening again. 

You definitely have the right attitude - Hashem Will Give Me Koach!

!איש את רעהו יעזרו ולאחיו יאמר חזק

I believe going tonight resonated with me and my struggle. 

i just listened. Didn’t input anything. 
I relate to the concept of addiction better when focused on using a chemical/substance insteadd of lust. 

Will bH go again tomorrow

i told wife I got more stuff since the initial big conversation, and we had a long conversation about it tonight. 

Disposed of what was left but took one last J on the way out.

Horizon wrote on 22 May 2023 07:25:

Hey, it sounds like you really thought this through. I can see you're really motivated to make this a lasting, permanent change. Keep listening to Grant and you'll be alright. And keep posting. You got this and we're all behind you. 

hey grant, thanks for responding to my post!
first off i want you to know that i really like your posts, especially grants rants. thank you for always inspiring.

interesting that the dream thing is a thing, i guess it makes sense.
i'm sorry to hear you've struggled with multiple addictions, i hope things are doing well by you and should only get better.

you point out that the deal was an external, temporary thing, and inner work has to be done. from reading some of your posts it seems as if this is your motto. svara says that you're right. im gonna go through your points and try to answer them one by one. (not that im answering to you, more that im clarifying things for myself. oh, and i wouldn't mind your insight)

- getting clarity on why i want to be clean:
number one reason, is to get married. i very much want to get married and have a good strong healthy honest relationship w my wife. hiding stuff, and doing things that a future wife disapproves of dont really work w that goal. (also i've come to understand from reading the forums and from talking to HHM that porn ruins a healthy sex life. עד כאן מאמר המוסגר)
number two i find that watching porn distances and alienates me from others. which is something i don't want.
number three i find that it distances and alienates me from avoidas hashem. which again i don't like.
number four (cuz of the above reasons?) i feel uchhh after watching/acting out.

- learn strategeis:
i should probably give the F2F another try. i briefly tried it like 8 months ago (before i tried the forums) but never followed up.
but on a simple level, i've learned that exercising does magic. also, doing small things to take care of myself, stay organized and be on top of things can help.

- learn yourself:
i'm bh working w an amazing therapist to get this taken care of. over the last couple months i've grown tremendously, and became much more comfortable w myself.

- make changes:
?
i mean i got rid of my phone if thats what you mean. wasnt easy.

- stay connected:
this is why im here.

k i wrote this up late at night. this should be a good post for me to come back and reflect on. thank you!

fightingthefight wrote on 21 May 2023 10:50:

Great post. Read this when you hit those inevitable bumps.

You can definitely do it.