I have been readin' this back n' forth (as i read everythin') and was tempted to comment several times - thankfully I held back, but this line (bolded above) struck a 'cord,' and it's been a constant theme here, I think. Why is 'Jewish perspective' equated with 'punishment'? And why is 'livin' life' disassociated from 'Jewish perspective'?

• Punishment - I will steer away from (although i disagree and certainly question some of the assertions mentioned above).
• Jewish perspective - it is difficult for many of us to ignore this, as it is part of our fabric. If your entire life is spent bein' addicted to lust and fantasies involved with that, from a Jewish perspective, you are not doin' great at all (regardless of actions not committed).
• Livin' life - the most important factor for me.

Godspeed

So a fellow said, "I am definitely addicted to lust - 100 percent!" His friend asked him, "Have you ever gone to 12-step meetin's?" Fellow replied, "No. I would if it was necessary, but I happen to be from the .001 of guys who used sheer willpower to overcome this challenge."

Truly astoundin'!

Since we are talking about non-addicts, per your subsequent post, what will be of the gentleman who does not become a kaasan, is pleasant to be around and is generally in control of his emotions. There just comes a time (or several) in the day or night when he has an uncontrollable urge to unzip and let loose? And if he has access to porn, then he will take advantage, but will not commit crimes, fly into a rage or embarrass his family to get his fix? And if his wife has been off limits for several days too long, he will gaze lustfully at her and calmly spill his seed? And perhaps he will conjure images in his mind of women he fantasizes of being with?
If his life is "manageable" (since he is a non-addict), can he be treated as "normal," or will he still not get the help he needs?
Although we agree there is some disagreement regarding the exact statistics, can we agree that there is, at the very least,  a "miyut hamatzui" of people like this? If not, then they (me) are in fact, not normal, and should not be treated as such. If yes, what is the benefit of perpetuating a stigma among a large subsection of our population? How, in fact, should he (me) get the help he needs? Or is he untreatable until his life becomes unmanageable, at which point he becomes an addict, which is abnormal, thus reaffirming the now-justified stigma?

cordnoy wrote on 05 Jun 2023 12:23:

I have been asked several times to explain this and perhaps elaborate (and this, by no means, means that my opinion is correct; it is nothin' more than my opinion): Let's take lashon hara for example. This is what almost everyone would agree as a "normal" struggle, universally shared. What is the approach? Learn Shmiras Halashon 5/10 minutes a day, dedicate one hour of extra-zehirus towards this, occasional soap-in-the-mouth and avoidin' large groups at a tavern. What happens for someone who joins this program? He does it for 2 weeks/5 weeks/ 3 months or more, but many, sadly, remain lashon hara talkers for the duration of their life - some more, some less. I am not sayin' not to follow that mehalech, for it is what we should be doin'; what I am sayin' is that it remains a 'battle of the generation.'

Now, let us take this parable a step further (again, for some): Let us say that this baal lashon hara is a tremendous ka'asan, and when he begins to talk about someone else in a derogatory manner, his voice rises, he swears, he degrades him and his family and his Rabbi, he cannot control his emotions - his wife slinks to the corner of the room, his kids don't stay near him durin' lainin' or the kiddush, he's not pleasant to be around. He is different than your normal shmoozer. What approach do we suggest for this fellow? Learn Shmiras Halashon 15 minutes a day? I don't think so. If he is treated as 'normal,' he will not get the help he so deserves.

So now, I ask you (fellow Rabbanim, Roshei Kollel, Menahalim, etc.): Are there many of your congregants with a porn addiction? In the world, yes. But of the 100 in the room, how many have issues with their zipper? 3, 5, 8? If you consider them/us 'normal,' I think there will be a disservice in the help we are providin'.

Godspeed

Bigmoish wrote on 30 Jul 2014 17:48:

Thank you for your post. I have zoomed in on a very important observation (quoted above) you have correctly made that I'm now going to paraphrase: Fantasy is the root cause of all masturbation. If you do not fantasize (and you carefully guard your eyes), you will not masturbate. Period.
You beautifully write that despite not looking at inappropriate online content, you still are are struggling with masturbation. This is an extremely common situation (one that I found myself in when I first got onto this site), and one that I attribute in large part to too little attention being given to the fact that fantasy is the central driving factor behind all sexual immorality, acting out, and intense battles with the yetzer hara. This website is called Guard Your Eyes, but really it should be called Guard Your Eyes and Your Mind, because many of us unfortunately have plenty we can think about without looking at anything at all. That's the problem. To continue distancing yourself from masturbation, it is critical that you remember that fantasy is the absolute root cause of all of your misery. Learn to gently allow yourself to move around thoughts of fantasy and on with your day (easier said than done, but is possible), and you will be a free man. Neurotic attempts to control every thought you have with an iron fist will almost certainly backfire. We need to be gentle with ourselves, understand how our minds work, and learn to sidestep unhealthy thought processes (i.e., fantasy) that consistently bring us to extreme frustration, nisyonos, and possibly much, much worse. May Hashem help us all.
Hatzlocha!