Hey! Welcome!

I can definitely relate to what you wrote. And you raised a very important point. It's impossible to stay long term clean when you feel resentful. And don't think you're terrible for feeling that way. You've been indulging for a long time (arguably as an ones) and have come to really like this stuff. It's genuinely difficult to give up something you love so much and have been using for so long.
Just honestly acknowledging you feel this way and not condemning yourself for it is a huge step.

I think you got the answers you need on this thread already. Work through the first sections on F2F and write out the exercises there. That'll help you crystalize some of the ideas behind your motivation. (Relatedly, you'd find it helpful to write out your entire history of acting out. It'll help clarify the extent of the problem.)

Read the Battle of the Generation and learn how to find the pleasure in not acting out. It's possible to change your mindset so you no longer feel deprived.

Connect with some of the guys here. Sharing this pain with someone who can completely identify with it is shockingly helpful.

Hatzlacha and keep on trucking!

heyyou wrote on 16 Jul 2024 19:00:

Hey welcome! You're in the right place. I can completely relate to the actions and mindset you're describing. 

Good news is, there's hope. 

Maybe try completing the rest of the F2F program, there are some very helpful tools you can pick up to help with fantasizing. As Vehkam mentioned, learn through The Battle of the Generation and find the greater joy of being clean. Finally, the greatest resource on GYE is the chevra. If and when you feel comfortable, pick up the phone and connect to some of the amazing chevra here.

I think the term you might be looking for is the difference between being "sober" and "recovering". You got a shot in the arm of powerful external motivation, and that changed your external actions. But when that motivation starting wearing off, and you started letting lust in through the cracks, you saw that you were the same lusting guy. Perhaps you didn't "recover" - you didn't make the internal changes needed in order to heal.
Absolutely not knocking the changes you made. A year+ of being free from masturbation is huuuuuge, and shows immense strength of character. Now is the time to finish the job.

Hatzlacha and keep on trucking!

So, I asked Rabbi Felder from Lakewood about the signs. He had no issue with the sign, but he didn't like the fact that it says that over 40 bnei Torah have called already. He was very politically correct, he didn't say it's wrong just why do you need that line. I told him I think it gives chizuk to a person seeing it, so that he knows that he's not the only ben Torah struggling, which almost every yeshiva guy thinks. To that he said that since the sign is being written by a yeshiva guy, perhaps that is enough for people to realize that they are not some. When I continued arguing my case, he said, you know what? Try it without that line. If you see that less people are calling then put that line back in

In any case, IWLR, you can now put it up in BMG, and write "Rabbi Felder was asked about this sign. And he approved"

Keep on trucking!

mggsbms wrote on 11 Jul 2024 21:35:

Real g's leave ou' as many le'er's as possibl'. Too ch'l to spel'

Now just wait for him to resuscitate Foolie's African Dwarf Frogs and we'll have a real miracle on our hand. 

yiftach wrote on 11 Jul 2024 20:17:

Cornoy leaving out d's as well? What's goin on here?

You woke up CO!
You transformed eerie into cornoy! 

You definitely have some secret power... and that's all with just starting a thread today!

Keep on trucking, you might just wake up the old grouchy cornoy!

redfaced wrote on 11 Jul 2024 16:52:

Hey! Welcome!

You're in the right place. GYE is a community of people dedicated to overcoming this struggle.

Why don't you share a little about your struggle? What brings you to GYE?

Keep on posting, reach out, never give up, and above all, keep on trucking!

A thought about unwanted thoughts.

In the noble quest of trying to free oneself from the clutches of lust, one encounters many obstacles that the YH throws at him. Perhaps the hardest one to overcome, is the idea of מחשבות זרות - strange forbidden thoughts, in our language - fantasies. It’s one thing to tell a person to control his hands, his eyes, but what goes on in one’s brain is almost impossible to control. Yet, perhaps with a bit of perspective, this too can be worked on effectively, and in the long run, overcome. 

There are conflicting ideas I’ve heard over the years from my רביים and משגיחים over the years, and it took me a while to resolve an apparent contradiction, but when I did, it helped me somewhat, so I’d like to share my conclusion with the Oilam. Although I trust my רביים that there are sources for what they told me, I unfortunately don’t know what they are. So if you only like hearing things that are sourced, this post might not be for you. 

On one hand, I remember hearing from one of my רביים a story from one of the Gerrer Rebbes. One of his חסידים complained to him that he was having מחשבות זרות and was at a loss in how to deal with them. The Rebbe sharply responded, the מחשבה isn’t זרות, YOU ARE. Meaning to say, don’t make yourself look like an innocent person who is doing everything right, who is plagued by something that’s beyond your control. No, you are the culprit, and your own fault for having these thoughts, you are the one who is זר. Similarly, I once heard a Shmuess from a very prominent משגיח who’s name I won’t mention, just in case I’m misquoting him (it’s been many years). He said that if one finds himself in the middle of שמ"ע and he’s being plagued by unwanted thoughts, it’s not a good סימן, and it’s a reflection of where he’s holding in his 'עבודת ה. Pretty demoralizing stuff, but with perspective, I think we can put a positive spin on it.

On the other hand, I once heard it being said in the name of ר' חיים ואלאז'ינר, that when one experiences מחשבות זרות, it’s a נסיון - an opportunity for growth, not to be missed. I once learnt a שטיקל in the דגל מחנה אפרים, in the beginning of  פרשת עקב where he says that if one experiences מחשבות זרות, especially during Davening, it’s a סימן that he’s being given the opportunity to return these מחשבות to it’s source. He gives a משל. If someone was speaking to a king and was interrupted by one of the king’s servants, obviously it was the king told that servant to interrupt him, or else the servant wouldn’t dare interrupt on his own. When an improper thought fleets through a person’s head during Davening, that thought was sent to him from ה' in order for him to rectify it. He seems to imply, that it’s almost a complement from ה', that He feels that the one Davening is worthy of rectifying these bad thoughts. What does this mean, and how can this fit with what we said before? 

Perhaps the idea is as follows. Let’s explain with a משל of eating. When one eats food, it enters his mouth whole, then it get mixed with his saliva in order for it to be able to be digested by the stomach. After further being mixed with different enzymes and juices, it enters the digestive system where it’s further broken down. At this point the food has basically turned in to liquid, and it’s ready for the kidneys to do their job. What they do is of utmost importance, they extrapolate that which body needs for it’s survival and delivers it to the appropriate location in the body, and the rest of the food which is not needed is discarded as waste. Obviously, I’m simplifying a much more complex system, but that’s the basic idea. There are different types of food that have a different effect on the digestive system. Healthy foods, are the one’s that make the digestive system work harder and process more. More of the food is utilized as energy and fuel for the body, and the part that’s not needed is discarded. Then there are the unhealthy foods. the one’s filled with saturated fat. They slide easily right in to are system, the digestive system doesn’t need to process it much, and most of it gets lodged somewhere around the waist, where it serves no purpose other than requiring us to loosen our belts. As the pound accumulate, they become harder to lose, and if he wants to do so, it will require a great effort on his part. Say a person is 40 pounds overweight (speaking from experience now) and he wants to shed them all, the first 10 will be relatively easy, the second 10 harder, the third 10 even harder, and the final 10 will require an almost herculean effort to be rid them.

The eyes are the window to the soul. Think of looking at improper images as real junk food. It sticks to our soul and as long as one is busy viewing, or in any form of lust mode, he’s just piling on the pounds, it’s gonna be a lot harder to diet. However, when he does make the decision to diet, and is ready to do the hard work it takes, he’ll find that the fantasies don’t stop so easily. Even after he’s given up looking at things he shouldn’t be watching, he finds that the fantasizing doesn’t stop. Not only that, but often the unwanted thoughts will hit him hard exactly at the wrong times (i.e. during שמו"ע, learning etc.). He wonders, what am I doing wrong? The answer is nothing. Forgive the analogy, but it’s the equivalent of letting the waste out the body. Every time a person goes to the bathroom he is in effect losing weight. The excess weight that accumulated over time now can bit by bit leave the body. 

The aforementioned  דמ"א bring a 'זוהר הק which brings a beautiful משל that sheds light on this mysterious subject. There was once a king who had a son. He wanted the son to demonstrate a certain level of love for him, so he commanded the son to stay from all women of ill repute. Then the king went over to a very pretty זונה and told her, “please do what you can to try to entice my son to sin”. The women had no interest in getting the prince to sin, after all he was the beloved heir to the throne, yet she was bound by her loyalty to the king to obey his command. Even though at the time of the seduction it appeared as though she was trying to get him to sin, she wanted him to overcome his desire and not sin with her. The king’s intention was that his son should have the opportunity to demonstrate his love by overcoming his desire and showing that he values his father’s love above all. The נמשל is self explanatory. The פסוק says "והנה טוב מאוד" and חז"ל tell us זו יצה"ר. What can possibly be good about the YH? The answer is that only through the YH can one truly show their love for 'ה by overcoming his lust for His sake.

Ideally when one is confronted with a נסיון, he passes it on the first try. He demonstrates the love for 'ה and reaches higher levels of יראה and אהבה because of the hurdles he cleared. What if he failed? Then the YH lodges itself through his eyes, into the very fabric of his soul, the same way junk food becomes a part of his pot belly. But when he want to lose the weight or divest himself from the YH in him, he will be given a second chance. If the whole תחלית of the YH was to get to overcome, it stands to reason that, the residue of the YH that he took in needs to be expunged from his being by “pushing out” the thoughts when they plague him. By doing so the YH has accomplished what it originally set out to do, to allow him to overcome for the sake of 'ה. 

To sum it up, bad thoughts are a result of what we’ve taken in with our eyes. At the same time, they are an opportunity not to be missed, to try to accomplish what we failed the first time around. This should help explain why when one is trying so hard in all other areas, the area of מחשבה is the hardest to conquer. It also can help explain why the unwanted thoughts pop in to our heads precisely at the time when we’re trying to have proper כוונה. When we’re trying hard to access new and higher levels in 'עבודת ה, that’s when we’re given the opportunity to demonstrate whether or not we’re actually ready for the next level. Rest assured,  that as time goes on, and one is vigilant with what they look at, and they conquer one thought at a time, even if not perfectly, but as long as the trajectory is heading in the right direction, they will subside as pounds of lust shed off his soul. Hope this wasn’t too philosophical, but the idea helped me, so if it works for you as well great, if not, move on and KEEP ON TRUCKING!!!

Icebreaker wrote on 09 Jul 2024 20:05:

Wow sorry bro editing other people's posts is really addictive.

Thank you for the honest share. Sounds like you've done amazingly well.

If the streak count is motivating, keep it up. If it's demotivating, then forget about it.

Hatzlacha and keep on trucking!

Beautiful! For posts like these alone, the entire GYE is worth it! Keep on trucking and inspiring!

just_me wrote on 08 Jul 2024 16:25:

Just read through your posts. Great to have you on board, another soldier in our army empowers us all! Thank you so much for joining and inspiring us with your battle. Just a clarification of the bolded part of your last post. When you write that things will get easier, you are correct that if you keep this battle going, the struggle in this area will get easier. There may be setbacks, but if you persevere, things will indeed get easier. However, please don't delude yourself in to thinking that if you clean up your act, this will automatically result in more Parnasah flowing down from the heavens because you were doing what you supposed to be doing. It's a dangerous mindset, because although there are sources that will tell you that when one increases their שמירת העינים, their sustenance increases as well, this doesn't mean that it will for sure happen. granted if the reason a person was struggling with Parnasah was because he wasn't careful with his eyes, then guarding his eyes might just be the answer to all of his problems. However, there are many other reasons that 'ה might make a person struggle financially, reasons that are way beyond the scope of this post. Please don't base your battle on the hope that if I do this, 'ה will reward me by taking away all my other problems. Doing so might result in a lot of אגמת נפש if it doesn't come to pass the way you envision. However know this, if you do choose to keep at it, your life will be enriched in ways you can't imagine, not necessarily because the circumstances will change, rather because you will. There is no better feeling in the world, that making yourself in to a better person. It will fill you with a sense of joy contentment, and accomplishment that's hard to describe. Perhaps you meant this all along and I apologize if I misunderstood your intention. Either way, take pride in your accomplishment so far, and KEEP ON TRUCKING!

Oish! Feeling for you, brother.
You are better than what happened today, as you so beautifully said...
(Fell, shmell, keep on trucking...)


But, how are you going to react?
What can you change to avoid this happening again?

Either way...
KOMT!

Amazing stuff!! Keep on trucking. The urges will come again, it's part of the human male condition. Posting is a great beginning, but please take the advice that Muttel and CO posted earlier on your thread. There's a huge difference between posting and reaching out. As many on this forum can attest to, there is no substitute for picking up the phone and reaching out. Try it, you will never regret it.

photog wrote on 08 Jul 2024 00:18:

Good Job ! Keep on trucking . To 90 and beyond !!!

chancy wrote on 28 May 2024 20:10:

Thank you chancy for your words and ideas to address my question.

As far as falling after 12 years, I actually address your exclamation of “is there no hope?” in a post to chaimoigen towards the beginning of my thread (in a poem). While my 12 years of growing in all areas, Torah, kedusha, etc have immeasurably helped me remain hyper focused now and jump in to commitment, it’s clear to me that I had some roots remaining from my bochur porn watching days that I never burned out. Without going into detail, I can now point to several instances where I should’ve gotten the warning sign that all was NOT well in the Muttel Kedusha world…. I also let my vigilance down for a number of years thinking I’m done and it’s not a lifetime work….

so in short, the avoda here to work to change your insides, especially with the battle of the generation, and that will ensure your change will be permanent. Also, you’ll be sure to avoid complacency…..

thank you and KOMT!
Muttel