First of all, Chaim, anyone here on GYE is far ABOVE AVERAGE!  ;D

Now Dov,
dov wrote on 31 May 2010 01:26:


I don't quite understand what you're getting at (I'm only a novice at Dovish).  Could you please explain again?  (Maybe when you took out some of the shtarkness, a bit of the message got lost with it?    )

It wasn't my wife's idea to block google, it was my idea.  I really don't need it very often.

Also, I didn't tell my wife specifics.  I just told her "I fell."  She asked, "was it on the computer?"  I said, "yes."  She asked some more questions, but I told her I'd prefer to leave it at that.  She did ask if I did it to spite her.  I said "No, I was just feeling depressed."

I'm in DC's group, and sometimes I call people from that group to talk things out.

bardichev wrote on 30 May 2010 20:01:


Wasn't there a fad once--Pope on a rope?

Maybe it was something else.

Kinda' weird, but I definitely feel like this day 1 is built on the previous 200 something clean streak.  It's a much more solid day 1 than that day 1 I had 200 days ago.

When I left my computer after falling, I had this little voice in my head, "hey, you can spend all day looking at this stuff and it won't affect your count!  Now's your chance!"

But an answer came back, "But I don't really want to do this.  I just made a mistake."

  --Eye.

Eye.nonymous wrote on 31 May 2010 19:55:

Sounds great to me, sorry for misunderstanding!

Sounds like integrity to me....you are a lucky man.

Eye.nonymous wrote on 31 May 2010 20:03:


day one is great whenever it is!!!

How should I do this count thingy now?

As quotes by Rav Bards:

האַלטן אויף טראַקינג

If you dont know what it means then Google Translate it...

Eye.nonymous wrote on 31 May 2010 21:12:

Well, you start right away. Like, right away.
And then you stay clean.
And then you repeat. An end-less do-loop, they used to say in programming.

Oh, you were asking about the chart thingy? Who the heck cares? Guard will be back next week and wave his magic wand over any computerized glitches.  News flash: it's not the computer chart we all care about; it ourSELVES.

But you knew that. And I still think you're unbelievably awesome when it comes to your knowing that this work is all about the milah of the lev, not the bossur. Truly.

Briut wrote on 02 Jun 2010 02:34:
What are the glitches with the chart?

admin2

Coupl'a newbies reported they didn't get the email that allowed them to complete the signup process. Both guys on the same thread. Don't remember exactly where.

Day 5.

I tried to make the 9th step call with my wife (making ammends), and she said she needs a while to give me an answer.

She didn't answer directly, BUT, my fall was due to stress in our intimacy department.

The next morning we had a major discussion about it.  After I got over my complaining, my wife took it well and responded.  First of all, she pointed out that I didn't have the facts straight.  Secondly, she basically pointed out that considering
1.  She spends most of her time taking the kids to doctors appointments and such
2.  She doesn't have help keeping house, and she barely has time for it, but she does it anyways
3.  The house right now is very out of order and we don't have sufficient storage, etc, to keep things straight even if we had the time to do it
4.  She runs most of the errands

SO, how do I expect her to ever be interested in intimacy.

I realized, though I thought I was being helpful, I've really got a long way to go.

This week was crazy, even crazier than usual.  My wife has had to travel to doctor appointments with the kids almost every day, AND our 3-year old has had a stomach virus and has had to stay home all week.

I just realized--I have to answer to G-d, not to my Rosh Kollel.  Being in Kollel is really a privelige, and not an entitlement.  Certainly not when my wife is stressed out so much.

I've been pretty flexible this week, even offering to watch the baby (since I'm home with the 3-year old) so the traveling will be easier on my wife.

I even went along to one of these appointments, I was even involved and interested and accepting of the situation (instead of kvetching).

Maybe next week won't be so hectic.

I know my wife values my learning and isn't trying to keep me out of kollel.  And, she's even pushing herself extra so I can be more regular at learning.  But, there's too much of a price to pay for it.

ALSO, I always used to be bothered because my wife and I always had these heavy conversations.  The atmosphere always feels so serious, on the verge of depression.

I'm noticing sometimes now, that since I'm so agreeable to help, lots of things that would have been serious discussions before aren't even getting off the ground.

Like, "can I leave the baby?"  "Yes!"

Instead of...

...well, who can we leave him with...

...I don't know, maybe so-and-so...

...but so-and-so isn't available today... or...

...etc. etc. etc.

So, it seems like she gave me her answer.

---Eye.

P.S.:  My wife just added that I missed the important part:  The real problem is not just giving a few more minutes here and there to help my wife.  Rather, the things that are really important TO HER are not getting any acknowledgement or attention.  They're not getting taken care of.  Therefore, she feels neglected, AND, since none of the things that are important to her are really getting done, she basically feels like a flop all the time.

P.P.S:  I just told my wife that I'm not going to keep on writing what she says.  I'll be here all day modifying this message.  BUT, I'll add one more thing--They're my kids for crying out loud!  It's not my wife's problem!  They're my kids!  I ought to be interested and involved and concerned.

Eye.nonymous wrote on 03 Jun 2010 06:12:


I know you're "into" this Garden of Peace stuff, so I'll just say that your last post really "put words into action" for me. Yep, paying attention to what she somehow divines/intuits needs attention. Saying "yes, dear" as an act of avodas Hashem rather than a martyr to a marriage. You're living it, and I'm still learning it.

You rock, as they say. (Hmmnn, is 'rock' a verb as in, you make good rock and roll music, or is 'rock' a noun as in you are the rock of gilbalter. Who knows. Who cares, I suppose.) Thanks for sharing your deepest stuff with us all. It nourishes me.

My favorite take on this:
Venus: How can I sleep with you? You're never even NICE to me!
Mars: How can I be nice to you? You never even SLEEP with me!
And somehow men and women have to share the same solar system. WWow.

Day 8.

Y'know.  Sometimes I wonder.  Isn't it disheartening to fall after counting so many clean days?

But it's the difference between feeling, "Hey, I usually fall and I'm so surprised to stay clean so many days." 

And, "Hey, I'm usually clean and I'm so surprised that I fell!"

(Just in case anyone was disheartened from trying to stay clean because they think they might fall later.  Even if you do, it's very different.)

Hi,

I just wanted to recomend a book called "Marriage" by Zelig Pliskin. Maybe you have it? It is on real marriage problems with accounts by frum couples. I found it very good.

Keep on truckin'!

Today I was feeling pretty good.

My wife and I did some tag-team parenting this morning on order to get everyone to their doctor appointments and places of study.

The planning only involved a brief discussion because I was willing to be helpful (instead of complaining WHY DO THE KIDS HAVE SO MANY APPOINTMENTS!  HOW ARE WE GOING TO MANAGE SO MUCH IN ONE MORNING!  I CAN'T... I CAN'T... I CAN'T...)

AND I thought, "This is the least I can do."  Instead of thinking, "I'm such a great husband and tahte... where's my gold medal!"

The fun continued this afternoon.  I've been putting up lots of shelves, a project to make our house more organized and make life a lot easier for everyone and especially less frustrating for my wife.

And I felt good about it.  It wasn't this mysterious good feeling that came along unexplained.  It was a good feeling because I was being helpful.

AND, I realized, I can CHOOSE to be helpful, and to feel good about life.  Feeling good about life isn't an accident.

I used to think that whether we felt good about life or not totally depended on our luck.  Did G-d give us a good mood today, or did He drop us into the dark to test us?

...so, in the past, if I wanted to feel good the option was, the familiar "drug of choice."

But now for the first time, I see that we can CHOOSE to TAKE PART in life.  We can choose to do something helpful.  And then we will savor this moment.  We can take pleasure in doing the right thing.

It's a choice we can make, instead of taking the "drug of choice."