Eye im so happy for you. ANd jealous too. Keep on rollin.

Day 95.

Gematria of pi'ah as in pi'ah puscha be'chochmah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

KUTGW!!!  As always you are an inpiration to me.

Eye.nonymous wrote on 02 Feb 2010 12:23:


hey EYE,
are you going to count your clean days forever??  :-\ ???

i think you can stop your counting since you have already hit the 90 and occupy yourself by reinforce others on the other threads.

you are hero by now BARUCH HASHEM and i think other men here need your chizukim.

hope that i didn't gave you a little ga'ava ... ???

To me there is no difference between day 3 and day 5003. None whatsoever. Both a miracle and both w/a 50/50 chance to reach, at best. And those are not just words.
So why not count the same way?
On the other hand, perhaps what you meant was that it's finally time for him to quit counting the days and focus on making the days count...but whatever he does, I pray for reb Eye that he never gives up his baby-like dependence upon Hashem to stay sober even one single day, till he dies after 120. That feeling of confidence that "I'll probably stay clean now, it seems that Iv'e got it down" is precisely what I thought between the sickest acting-out binges during all those years when I was so incredibly busy "doing teshuva". I was always so sure I'd never go "back out there". Not...
Today, is just as poisonous to me whether I say it comes from Hashem this time, or whether I say it comes from my own power. It's poisonous because: it's a lie. No one is sober yesterday or tomorrow. We are only going to be sober today. Boruch Hashem, not me.
Hope you understand my dovish, chaver.

No one says it better than Dov... This was in yesterday's chizuk e-mail 

But, but, but....

I still like hearing the sound of it: "95 days"... Ahhhh... It's just music to our ears...

Hey, no one else has ever posted how many days they're at once they hit 90. I like it, keep posting...

Eye, on one hand I like the counting. Very cool. 95 days, 96 days... 1001 days, 1002 days... (beezrat HaTatty).

On the other hand, Eye, are you ready at this stage to say "I will never mast** or view p** again!" and leave it at that? Are you ready to realize that that behavior is not an option for you anymore? Haven't you proven that you CAN make that declaration and smash the Y"H for once and for all out of your life. Then you stop counting and get ON with your life, and stop counting and stop thinking about not acting out. What do you think Eye?

---------------------------
Dov, I know you are totally against this approach. In fact, you wrote in your last post on this page "That feeling of confidence that "I'll probably stay clean now, it seems that I've got it down" is precisely what I thought between the sickest acting-out binges during all those years when I was so incredibly busy "doing teshuva". I was always so sure I'd never go "back out there". Not..."

But Dov, I'm not talking about "I'll probably stay clean now". I'm talking about declaring that "I will stay clean because I'll never act out again, no matter what happens to me or how I feel. I will take care of R.I.D. in different ways than acting out." I know, it's the influence of the Rational Recovery material I've been reading. It's RR vs. SA. For some people, SA is the way to go (like you). I'm just feeling out Eye to see what he thinks of the RR approach (the declaration of "I'm never doing this again. Now, lets stop counting days and move on with my life...").

I know someone who was a big fan of RR and was doing great with it for a while, but as soon as he got sick and his brain wasn't able to think "Rationally", he fell.

I don't know if he would have done better with the SA approach, I'm just sharing what happened...

guardureyes wrote on 04 Feb 2010 12:25:


And I know of a guy who used the RR approach and is doing great.
I'm not sure what your point is.
All I wrote is that some like SA and some like RR. I was just wondering what Eye thought of RR.

------------------------
If anyone out there is unfamiliar with RR and wants to read more, go to https://rational.org/index.php?id=35

Day 97.

Thanks for the question MOMO.  I still feel vulnerable.  I got this scary feeling that, "hey, maybe it's all a fluke!"  I know there's just a paper-thin barrier between myself and acting out again.  But I think I'll stay clean as long as I remember that.

And, hey, doesn't "100" sound like another landmark.  The big 0-0!  Then 120.  150.  180.

Why not?

--Eye.

Dear Eye,
Years ago, I heard this powerful idea from R' Matisyohu Salamon which I think can be a chizuk for all the special warriors who reach 90.
Most Rishonim say that the last Nisayon of Avraham Avinu was the Akeida. However Rabeinu Yona says that the last Nisayon was the burial of Sara.
The question is obvious. After having been through the Akeida, what was the big deal about burying Sara?
The answer he gave was, that sometimes a person feels after having been through a very hard Nisayon "HaShem I have done my bit, leave me alone already!" It is hard to imagine the frustration I would feel after having gone through the Akeida and then having to haggle over a plot of land. Even that did not come to Avraham easily.And Avraham just smiled through it.
I have not reached 90 yet, but personally I think that this is the hardest bit, not to be able to relax at all and to always be on your Guard.
Chazak Ve’ematz

KUTGW!!!  Every day clean is a landmark onto itself.  

Momo wrote on 04 Feb 2010 08:19:


Hi Momo!
I blued two lines above, to comment on.
I hope I am not "against" any derech for recovering. In fact, I tried plenty and liked them all. At each bend in the road - if you would have asked me I'd have told you I was sure I'd never act out again! Not kidding. Now I say "probably" cuz I have accepted that tomorrow doesn't exist yet so I can't have any power over it - talking about sureties of tomorrow is poison for me. That's my facts of me. Not for you or anybody else, perhaps. But what should I do? never say it for fear that someone will take what I am saying as some kind of bible-truth?
Certainly, I have a special affinity for the only derech that actually worked for me. I hope that's legal. I hope that doesn't brand me as 'judgemental'.
So, I love Rational Recovery. Love it, love it love it. If it works for you. I could not care less what anyone uses. The only thing that I am here for is to help people get sober today and stay sober today. So more power to you or reb Eye, etc, whatever you do about your problem, as long as it works for you.
When Sturggle shared his true feelings above, you responded that Hashem certainly does love him. And I am with you 100%, as I posted above. But that was not the point of his post. He was telling the truth as far as what he saw, in himself. And that was the point of my question. (I tried to explain the purpose above).
In the very same way, I am not posting the objective truth - what's right. I am trying to share the facts about my experience. I feel that doing anything else, like "teaching", is a total joke. For who the hell am I to teach? I am not a talmid chochom, not a model husband/father/jew/anything - just another recovering pervert. Who in their right mind would look to me as a teacher, anyway? If folks see what Hashem has given me and want some of that, let them take! Kol dichfin... I am ready to share my experience like my imperfect sponsor shared his with me. I have no assumption of Truth - excepting the absolute truth about what my experience was. That I can be honest about!
Is this clear, or just so much more dovish?
So, my recovery knows nothing about smashing a yetzer hora, or an addiction, out of my life forever. Forever is not in my lexicon. Really. Though, with Hashem's sweet help I actually may die sober. Who knows? Not me. (maybe Rage does, though...) Who could really ask for more, even though just "not acting out" is certainly a far cry from how I live my life today! And so is being against any form of successful recovery. Maybe I used to be that way in my first years, but uh-uh - no more.
I respect and love you, Momo, because I believe you are a truly good person, trying the best you can like I am, know your voice, and because you are a Jew. And I just felt like setting a record straight. Hope you are cool with the above, but I have no power over that, either! 
And now for a badly needed visit to bardy's pub!

PS. I feel that when anybody shares something that I saw failed for me, I feel that it's the right thing to do to post that it failed for me and - if I have any idea why - why I think it failed.
I really have experienced the complete failure of certain ideas and attitudes in my own recovery and have worked together with and witnessed many folks in recovery who have shared how they misunderstood and misused basic religious and recovery ideas. I feel I need to share this stuff, but maybe my delivery is a bit off or too pushy.
Can you help me?
G-d help me if I screw anyone up - but whose fault would it really be?
Help me out, here...
- Dov