The hell she is going through in in her heart is a necessary ingredient. It is her reality that she is married to you - and not just to part of you (as we always tried to pretend, by hiding it from our wives), but to all of you. Without going through this pain, she will never do what she needs to do over the next year or two: Grow up some more.

My wife, who is in no formal recovery at all, took about a year and a half for her to stop being scared. Her fear of our future was mostly manifested in anger for that period. I remained sober for that time and she started to snap out of the fantasy that she had a story-book marriage to prince charming. Things started to get much better at home. Eventually, (maybe two years later) she admitted to herself that , she never had a story-book marriage independent of my addiction....and never will. It took a lot of growing up to understand that all she will have in our marriage is: our marriage! ...however it really is.

That's when things got much better. But it was not just her doing that - all through her growth, I was growing on my own schedule, too - because I had to in order to stay sober. I was minding my own business, mostly...OK, with a bit of time out for bad behavior here and there.

I asked her a few weeks ago in bed how she would like to be old together - she said it'd be nice. I asked her if she would still love me if I were old - and she said, "I can't love you next year. I can only do that today, so I won't go there." Is that a bubble-burster? Or is it a real relationship?

"Romance" is basically stupid and poison. Not love - love is essential, but romance? 'Romance' makes me need assurances of her undying adoration of me - which always led me to act out in the past, and it led me to freak out when I lacked love for her in some way - which always led me to act out, too. Our forefathers and mothers did not have 'romance' - but they had love.

One day at a time is all we ever have in a relationship, whether we admit it or not. Surrender tomorrow with your wife, your kids, and everybody else, too - except G-d. He doesn't go anywhere.

OK, so all I am saying is that she needs space and you can only provide her that space by staying sober today (for yourself).

I disclosed a bit more about my addiction to my wife (at my sponsor's suggestion).  I actually didn't think it was anything so bad, but my wife broke out crying.  I think it was so painful because, it was something enough to finally hit her, I'm not doing this recovery thing for the fun of it.  I NEED IT, and without it I could become dangerous to myself, my family, and to society.

In the course of the conversation, she asked if I had any problems with our daughter.  I told her that I have set up boundaries (with Guard's help quite a while ago) to keep safe.  She yelled at me that if I ever tried the slightest thing that might harm our daughter, she's not going to stand for it.  I guess she wanted to make sure it was clear.  After a little bit of a pause, I asked her if she could promise the same thing also about herself (our marital intimacy over the years has been very confused; My wife has put up with a lot of things so as "not to dissappoint me," thinking that my interests were normal for a guy.  I asked her if she could just tell me to stop if I'm doing something that she isn't interested in, and that I would appreciate it).

A lot of things are coming out into the open, and I think we are both doing some healing.

--Eye.

wow

good for you on taking such bold steps
good for you that you have a sponsor to guide you
good for you that you realize that even though it may be hard, through this you are healing

ashrecha

Dear Eye!
Are you totaly free with your wife, about the addiction?
In the former 2 months, I used to come here, and do it in front of my wife. [She doesn't even try read English, although she knows English in some way]
Few days ago , when we had a talk about other issues, she told mr, that she sees me with that site, and she sees that I'm in my "cave", and not telling her, what's going on. She told me that she thinks, it has to do with men's problems. [I have told her, from time to time - that I have problem about m*, but I don't think that she really knows the meaning of the problem, and she totally doesn't know, that it includes me watching porn]
I was very nervus, when she talked to me, but I couldn't just tell her, :"Look , I have to tell you, that there are times that I need to relax, so I watch a bit porn, act out, and then I wash my self, and come back to normal."
I guess, that if I will be sobber one day, I will tell her more....
I think that you have reached to a real madriga, if you can talk with your wife, even if she cries and yells, [which is normal]!

Youch! Reb Eyeball! When you say we are doing a bunch of growing, you know, I believe, that what includes is "we are going through a lot of pain". Right?

That's the only way to grow. But I must say that though I'd never suggest anyone ignore their sponsors advice, it is important for you to know that telling your wife the facts about you is important to do for making amends with her - and you owe her that. It's for her.

It is also important to disclose in order for you to be fully honest with her and really live with her - but that's for your benefit more than for hers. 

Two of the reasons to disclose to your wife. And neither are absolutely necessary. As long as you remain sober one day at a time with G-d's help, you have a fair shot at living well with her...even if she does not know everything about you.

And it is possible to live in happiness without ever making amends with her - unlikely, but possible.

I told my wife whatever she wanted to know long ago. But she never knew my full 1st step inventory (my acting out history with everything I did and tried to do) until I was sober about 13 years...cuz she never asked!

And I must say, we are closer than ever now - because she went through all the pain in the first year and a half I was sober....then some more when I had a hard time around year four....now it is water under the bridge for her. It helps her understand me, rather than threatens her.

My wife reminds me often when we hear of a couple having a hard time: "Time heals a lot of things," she likes to say. And it does.

Stay with your sponsor and stay the course. Don't offer her unnecessary details she does not want to know and do not stick it in her face to scare the heck out of her. But if for some reason you need to to do these things, make sure that you give her space and are ready for a lot of pain - for her and for you.

Love makes a big difference, but your sobriety is far more important than even love, at this stage of the game.

Hatzlocha! 

UY, the disclosure was very gradual--remember I've been here now for about 2 years.  In the very beginning I told just a few things, and sugar-coated it so much that it seemed like I just had a few quirks.

Dov, my wife's understanding until now had been that I have no self-control when it comes to p*rn and m*sturbation, which is an idea she still has a hard time buying into.  What I disclosed was a bit more, enough for her to see there's a real problem here that really needs help; her knowing this, I think, has made a big difference for the better.  I haven't disclosed everything, or anything that would do more damage than good.

--Eye.

Eye.

Thanks for posting about approaching your wife with your problems. I feel like I am at that stage and I really want her to know. For her to understand. For her to help keep guards up.

But listen to this and tell how well you think it will go over.

Whenever we are at my in-laws house we discuss these things. We always talk about it like it is some far fetched idea and since I am pretty knowledgable about porn and masturbation I usually add my two cents telling them how terrible it is; how tough it is to break out of; and how it RIPS MARRIAGES APART.

Now my has her ideas about porn. Coupled with what I tell her and what her mother tells her, my wife would go absolutely bezerk if I tried to explain it to her even sugar coating it.

So tell me. Is it that I am weak and I dont want to tell her? Am I weak because I am afraid of what she will think of me? Am I weak because I think I am protecting her?

ninety

ninetydays wrote on 23 Jun 2011 14:45:


90 days, the question of when and how to tell a wife is a long and complicated one.  Most would agree however that it is best for you to have some serious sobriety under your belt before you have that conversation.  I don't know for how long you've been sober but if the 2 weeks you've been here is an indication, that is not it).  Also, it is a bad idea to make your wife your accountability partner.  Hatzlacha 

as UAJ says, telling the wife is not something to be done casually.

Eye is doing it by direction of his sponsor. It is risky and at times can be entirely self-serving and detrimental to the wife in the wrong conditions. Tread cautiously and don't take brash steps. as tempting as it seems to bring her into the loop and have her understand you (which is an unknown factor, women don't function as men do and often have a hard time grasping the craziness we harbor) it is best done with guidance and after some period of sobriety.

wishing you hatzlocha
zs

Ninety,

Basically, I'll just say listen to UAJ and ZS.  You need guidance for this and, more importantly, you need some serious sobriety behind you.

--Eye.

On Friday night I was feeling awful, sickish and with a headache that just got worse and worse throughout the holy sabbath meal (with 5 rambunctious kids).  I ran off to bed a couple of times throughout the meal to pull myself together and then be able to come back.  I realize this as part of the addiction, going into isolation.

I discussed it with my wife.  There are a number of things about the meal that really make me feel sick.  Everyone talking all at once.  I just get a headache.  Plus, I can only half-understand the kids.  First of all, they're kids.  Secondly, they are all native Hebrew speakers and my conversational Hebrew isn't quite on the same level.

We have tried various measures in the past to maintain order, but we've never been able to be consistent.

We came up a plan for lunch, and my wife explained it to the kids.  We will try to keep it to one person speaking at a time.  For the few minutes when we sing, everyone should sit together and sing (the kids are capable of this and do enjoy it, but if we don't expect anything of them, then they would be riding tricycle-like vehicles around the living room and making lots of noise).  We didn't think this is demanding too much, and we implemented this plan for lunch and shalosh seudos.  It was much more pleasant.

Besides that, I think I am feeling frustrated because I have fallen into a rut, in davening, with keeping up instead of having any sort of concentration.  In the past, after such a realization, I would make a great effort and start imagining things like standing before the Fiery Throne of Glory (something I picked up from Chassic seforim) to increase my concentration, which would work for a day or two.  But I don't feel capable of even doing that now.

Instead, I thought I would try to just think, slighty more than I have been, that I am standing in front of Hashem and talking to Him.  I should concentrate, just a tiny bit more, on the meaning of the words I am saying.

I have had a similar attitude about this struggle against lust.  I still feel I am in the grips of lust.  But, I do feel that I am turning my head away a bit faster than I used to.  I am catching the thoughts in my head at a somewhat more subtle level than what it used to take, and I am able to turn my attention away from them somewhat faster than I used to.

I am making progress.  It's slow, but noticable--if I look for the small improvements.

--Eye.

A friend of mine once told me that any single day that he is sober, he feels that he really should be happy enough to dance with joy about that one factoid.

OK, so you have areas to work your steps in and to bond even more with your wife about. Fine. You have a "BIG" G-d and He will help you with this. You have a loving wife who will help you as His agent. You have GYE so you can vomit here, and then go home smelling acceptable....so what more could you ask for?

You want quiet kids, TOO!?

:-X

BTW, I believe the quieter you are, speaking calmly and quietly with your wife as if nothing is happening, maybe mouth to ear, the quieter they will end up being, though it might take two weeks for the transformation to take hold...no more than that.

In the meantime, your sobriety and recovery are the focus, right? The rest is icing. How do you say icing in ivrit?

dov wrote on 26 Jun 2011 04:41:


Noisy I can deal with.  But TOTAL CHAOS I can't.  I feel sick just about every Shabbos from this, so we're trying to make a few changes.

--Eye.

dov wrote on 26 Jun 2011 04:41:


Right.

And I think the Hebrew expression, if I'm not mistaken, is something like, "Duv'davan al ha-katzefet," which is closer to "cherry on top," but translates more literally as, "Cherry on top of the whip cream," which sounds better in Hebrew than in English, but not that much better.

--Eye.

Shush! Your chaos is making me tired.

Hey, after that silliness of mine, something serious (sort of) comes to mind (or to whatever I've got left of it!):

When they cause chaos, you and the little lady can find solace referring to the best detective show of all time, GET SMART no? It was always "Chaos" (the KGB/SS/bad guys) against "Control" (the CIA/FBI/good guys).

I am serious (really). There is a huge, saving power in humor. Be creative. Ask Hashem to give you some of His awesome sense of humor as an advance payment from the "Oz (nothing to do with the wizard of...) yimalei s'chok pinu". he has excellent accountants, you know, and makes deals like this all the time. If you don't believe me, see the Bnei Yisoscher on Elul (on "Chadeish yomeinu k'kedem").

This is a good tool. Hatzlocha, and may you and your wife and me and all of us laugh at more than 50% of the things that currently get us all serious and sucked into our pride and resentment.

Omein!