Eye.nonymous wrote on 07 Jun 2011 07:29:


I'm looking forward to cheese, wine, ice-cream, steaks, and other good things.  Do you look forward to anything on Shavuos?

I am sorry I can't offer you anything more than some friendly conversation, and maybe some Chizzuk at the moment.  But hang in there.  That you're fighting and not acting out is really cool, and inspiring.

wow... and i thaught only i was a moddy sesey.....

Man this is one of my צע"ג about this sa/12 steps programs.

How come that today in our generation, that it is famous that we have a week mind like a woman, our ups and downs are very agude, very drastic, and we tend to through away a lot of archivments when we are in a bad mood, ppl loose jobs because of a bad mood, ppl fight with theyr spouses and kids cause of bad moods, so explain me how in the world is it posible to keep to the line of the sa/12 steps programs for months and years? one bad mood and we supoused to say to the hell 12 steps, like we do with other things, no?

and bifrat that to porn we are addicted... huh?

any way eye, it was funny to read your post, are we brothers?

(by the way give today atleast 10 min of pure atenttion to your kids, so after it u feel like "ok i did something".... ;D)

laagvokeles wrote on 07 Jun 2011 08:57:

I think, the answer is, "practice."

My bad moods are making me realize that I need the 12-steps even MORE; it's not making me turn my back on them and throw them away.  Baruch Hashem, after admitting my problems as openly as I could and after having reached out to a bunch of people (and actually reaching some of them) I'm feeling right now that I'm in a much safer place than I was a couple of hours ago.

--Eye.

כל הכבוד

Eye.nonymous wrote on 07 Jun 2011 07:29:


Hey Eye - it's Kivi/YVY. I think the quote above is key. As you've learned and as you would most likely tell me if I was feeling the same, feeling down and tempted to act out is a "shout out" from H' shaking you out of slumber, asking you to reach out to Him. He wants to talk to you.

Eye.nonymous wrote on 07 Jun 2011 12:23:


Hey Eye - Happy to see that you got through to some people and were able to shift modes. B"H! Have a wonderful Yom Tov.

YVY

Managed to feel much better before Shavuos.

BUT THEN, Shavuos was really difficult, very frustrating and disappointing.

I was lusting and didn't even realize it.  My imagination came up with a new way to act out which is logical enough, and distant enough from lust, so that I didn't notice it.  So, I think I can call it a serious slip.  If it should happen again, it would have to be a fall.

--Eye.

Hey Eye

Just dropping in to give you a hand up and a big hug.

I'm sensing a huge amount of anxiety here.
Some things aren't going to turn out the way you plan... and that's okay.
Some thoughts are going to pop into your mind, it happens.
I found it best to just just change the channel, to think about something completely different. For me, reading about David Ha Melech and his struggles helped, or if the lights were out to think about a game I plan on making with huge fire breathing dragons and magical weapons, caves with piles of treasure.

You have helped me in a big way here, thank you!
And remember that we are ALL by your side.

ToAdd

Shalom eye!
I red your first post and then your recent ones, and true , you are right, there are many things that we have in common...I now in the middle of preparing to shabes...so I don't have the time I need to write, but I will ask you just that, have you been in SA meetings in Jerusalem? I am too much afraid of going there, because I'm ashame. I know "lo habayshan lamed" but I try now doing some kind of recovery, throw the web, vows and by writing here .... I used to go to OA, which is the older sister of SA, and lost 25 kilos. I saw that you asked if you should keep the steps for the rest of your life, from my expriance, from OA, I went to the meetings just for a year, then I stopped, and I still in blance[ it was something like 6 years ago] although, I do feel that I'm making some kind of little "slips" from time to time,that if I was taking the meetings, I guess it wouldn't happened.I found the meeting helpping me' more with the commitment issue, the more poeple see you, the more you feel you can't disapint them....

BTW do you speak Hebrew? as you can see , I break my teeth ' with the English...as I'm native Israeli....

Hello UY,

If your OA group followed the Big Book, it's only a little stretch of the imagination to realize that, the underlying drive behind addictive eating is the same underlying drive to addictive lust.  The same program has been put to use, successfully, for almost every addiction you can think of.

Yes, I started going to the group in Jerusalem.  Over the past couple of years I attended a couple of GYE get-togethers, which really helped break the ice and help me overcome the fear of meeting other addicts.

BTW, your English is pretty good.

--Eye.

ToAdd, Thanks for the hand. 

I’ve been feeling lust pretty strongly lately—I don’t think I’ve felt so overpowered by lust in a year or two.  I came up with a few thoughts about it:

UPS & DOWNS

I have been confused when I have a tremendous insight, and then a day or two after seem to be back to the way I was.  Was the insight a farce?  Am I inconsistent?  Or, maybe I’m not trying hard enough—if I just tried harder I could always feel uplifted.
I found something in a chassidic sefer lately which was very reassuring.  Basically, this is a normal part of life.  Being inspired, and then falling again almost as if nothing happened.  Nothing to be surprised about, confused about, or to feel bad about.

RECENT SLIPS

I have been confused because, not only have I lost this inspiration, but I have reverted to some old patterns of thinking and acting which I haven’t really done since the start of my journey on GYE nearly two years ago.
I think that I haven’t fully embraced the 12-step program.  I am holding onto lust at some level.  I am working the program to a certain extent, but when I’m not acting out I don’t think now that I’m really in recovery so much.  I feel more that I’m in remorse.  The vicious cycle of addiction continues—build up of restlessness, irritability, and discontent, THEN a spree, THEN remorse and a resolve never to act out again, THEN the RID builds up…  I am working the 12 steps enough to slow down this process—the RID isn’t building up as fast, the remorse doesn’t drag me down and get me depressed, the sprees are much shorter and less involved.  But I haven’t fully let go of lust.
I have been using the 12-steps more like a middos work shop, and I haven’t surrendered my lust to G-d enough.
I have been looking through the AA and SA literature.  I found the White Book write up about step 1 very powerful, and the section entitled OVERCOMING LUST AND TEMPTATION.

REALLY AN ADDICT

I realize now, more than ever, that I am an addict.  WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?  At the moment, without the program, I will continuously act out IN WAYS THAT SEEM PERFECTLY LOGICAL, JUSTIFIED, AND ACCIDENTAL.  My mind plays tricks on me.  AND, I will continue to relate to my wife as a lust object.  This would put tremendous strain on our love life, on our relationship in general, and on our children.  My mind and body are abnormal regarding s*x and this is the way I am at the core of my being and will never change.  I can take measures to deal with it, but it will never go away.  I see that now.

WHAT’S WRONG WITH LUST

I realized another danger of lust, because it’s hard to feel that m*sturbation and p*rn and staring at women really does all that much harm at this stage of the game.  WHY SHOULD I TOTALLY GIVE IT UP?  As long as I feel it’s okay to m* on occasion (or whatever) to feel better, then I will fail to deal with life, and I will be ever more escaping from reality.  Instead of becoming more responsible and more useful to my family and anyone else—which all requires effort, I would keep making a quick escape as the world, little by little, falls apart around me—until everything totally collapses.  So, I don’t want to escape.

TRIGGERS

In hearing the AA material I hear about how a drunk takes the first drink and after that loses all control.  I see this clearly in my own life now.  If my wife does the slightest romantic overture I overreact EVERY TIME.  I have absolutely no middle ground, no control.  This puts a lot of strain on our relationship, and ultimately makes me very confused and depressed, or it makes my wife angry.
 
--Eye.

Any concrete actions you can take as a result of all these things you have gotten clarity in? Not big plans, but just stuff you can do - rather than not do - to put some of this into your everyday life today?

dov wrote on 12 Jun 2011 05:42:


I'd appreciate some ideas.

--Eye.

How about taking a stab at a one for each section of your post and then we can talk about it here?