Isn't it great to be back? Have a great Shabbos!

Chart updated - level 3. Keep strong. It's great to have to back in the game with us all!

23 Days have been completed...

The past couple days have been extremely hard. The desire for lust was very strong...my mind was seemed possessed. I couldn't concentrate on anything. I kept saying NO NO NO NO NO!

It helps that I have a strong filter and accountability software...in the past, when the desire was strong, I'd try my hardest to circumvent my filter. But with accountability software, I know that I'll eventually have to make a cheshbon of all this to my accountability partners. Thinking of the shame and regret that I'd feel having to explain, to them and myself, how in the world I could have fallen (c"v) helped me fight off the yh.

I only wish I could use the feelings of shame I would feel when I'll have to make a cheshbon with H' when I get to Shamayim to prevent me from falling.

Postal, you are such an inspiring warrior. You are giving Hashem so much Nachas Ruach!




Please read the first two paragraphs of principle #10 of the Attitude Handbook.

Postal, have you read the handbooks? It is something great to read when feeling weak. Not only will it get your mind off sin, but it will make you much stronger for the future!

I know what your saying.

The Accountability program & Filter didn't stop me either even with all the shame.

GYE and its hand books were more powerful then the filters.

Efshar Letaken

Ah, but when your accountability partner is guard?? I bet that would help E.L  ;D


Postal, I updated your chart to 23 based on your last post. Keep in touch and keep inspiring us with the powerful battle of a very holy soul!

I was looking forward to posting that I'm 28 days clean.

BUT I FELL TODAY

Like every other time, I thought this time would be different...but once again, I fell differently than previous times so I didn't have fences around this.

HOW MANY DIFFERENT WAYS CAN I FALL? I guess I have more to learn about my yh. I previously thought that it was impossible for me to fall through this way? It didn't even register in my mind that it would happen.  

Trying to internalize that the yh appears to be boundless...by why does it have to be this way? Why does the yh have to be so much stronger than us? It seems like its not even remotely a balanced match. How are we supposed to beat the yh then? I guess, to beat the yh H' would need to do 99.99999% and we would have to give our all (the remaining 0.000001%).

I think many of us have given it our all. We've made drastic changes in our lives, created many fences, worked so hard in our spiritual lives...and yet, we have this "moment of insanity" where we are possessed by the yh and do all that we know is wrong. If the yh is infinitely stronger than us, how are we supposed to defend ourselves when the yh goes on an all-out attach. It seems like only H" can stop the yh in such cases. So does that mean it's HaShem's ratzon that the yh overcome us when we fall? If that's the case, why? Conversely, if the yh has not overcome us at a given moment, is it because it is HaShem's ratzon that yh not overcome us?

So how much can we really affect this battle? What can we really contribute? What is really up to us?

After you've done all you can (fences, etc), what is H' looking for us to do?

27 days clean is still amazing. A fall while on the journey is worth more than a clean day when not.
I will be adding a new feature to the 90-day wall of honor, and that is a "culmutive count". So these 27 clean days will go into this count, even though the 90 day count is reset!! How many clean days do you have so far since joining us a year ago? Hundreds!! Can you imagine your merit?

To address your questions:
The fight is 100% up to you.
The fight is 100% in Hashem's hands, not yours.
What??  :o
Yes, you heard right. We can't understand this, but the Torah tells us that both are true.
So let's not delve into matters that are beyond us.
Hanistaros La'Hashem elokeinu, Ve'haniglos Lanu Ulivaneinu.

The yetzer hara is indeed stronger than us, WAY STRONGER. That is why the only way to win is to not fight the lust head-on. This can be done in two ways:
1) Fences, and better fences, and even better fences. And each time you fall in a new way, put up a new fence. This can go on for years, but eventually you will get enough fences up to keep safe, if you are honest and true to yourself. Read tool #3 of the GYE handbook for many great ideas.
2) Learning how to give over the fight to Hashem. He is the only one who can fight the Yetzer Hara, not us. And if he is in the equation, what does it matter to you that the Yetzer hara is 100 X stronger than you are? Like the meraglim said, "they are much stronger than us", and they were right. But Kalev and Yehoshua knew that Hashem will fight for us, and therefore if makes no difference how strong they are!!

You want to learn the secrets of how to give it over to Hashem? You want to learn the 12-Steps and see how even the most hopeless non-Jews can beat this (after all, why are you worse than them)? Join the new 12-Step groups that are starting now!! See this page.

P.S. And read the handbooks!

Dear Postal-

You write that you thought things would be different

THINGS ARE DIFFERENT!!

You can't deny that you are a better person with 27 days clean and 1 fall. The main thing is to not allow the YH to convince you that you didn't accomplish anything. The truth is that you are beating the YH as long as you continue fighting. Of course we need to keep updating our fences every time we find a breach, but that in no way means that we admit defeat.  The struggle with the YH is the essence of our purpose in this world. Please just keep doing what you have been doing until now.

With regard to your frustration with the YH, I advise you to look very seriously at the 12 steps. (If you look at my thread, you will see that I am struggling with it's principles. Nonetheless, it addresses some of the essential problems that you are discussing. I have come to realize that this approach can really change me internally in a way I never thought possible.)
Please continue to inspire us. You are doing a great job!

My Dear Postal

If anyone can say they relate to you, I can, 8 months ago I lost my sobriety after 3 years!  But I have not given up, no one can take away from me the clean time I had it is an achievement that proves I can do it again one day at a time, sitting around being miserable is only going to keep me in the sickness.

You make some really good points that I relate to:

PostalServicio wrote on 22 Jun 2009 03:28:


Never ever underestimate the power of addiction, it is far stronger than we ever will.  Addiction is an insanity that only ever get progressively worse, how many of us started off by being addicted to masturbation, then onto soft porn............ each time swearing by everything holy that we will never get worse and before we realise it we have crossed that line.  Before I came into recovery I went to see a renowned Dayan in London as I was going through a really bad phase of misfortune and I attributed that to Hashems wrath, the Dayan asked me if I had crossed a certain line and I got really upset and said "I only have a problem with the internet I would never do THAT!"  Well guess what within a year I did just THAT thing I thought I would never in my life do.  Further part of the insanity every time I act out my disease tells me that I will get a different result, but in truth I am beating my head against a brick wall and expecting a different result each time - How insane is that? 

PostalServicio wrote on 22 Jun 2009 03:28:


You write that many of us have given it our all? I do not want to be harsh on you and neither am I judging you, I know from my experience that very often I will "appear" to take the right actions but when I do an in depth soul search of myself I will have to admit that there are further lengths I could have gone to,  Hashem is not going to "fix" me He wants me to put in the effort, when I daven to Hashem to relieve me of the addiction I have to mean it, I cannot give up to Hashem my addiction with one hand and hold onto it with the other hand.  The AA program talk about rigorous honesty, which is very difficult for me as an addict to do this as I am so used to justifying the unjustifiable.  When I have slipped in the past I have to do an in depth Chesbon Hanefesh and see where my program was lacking where could I have taken a different action.  You also talk about the "moment of insanity" for me the 12 steps have been crucial in this respect, the program gives me a choice before I act out to either take an action like call someone or act out, this choice is only there for a split second.  When I was in active addiction I never had a choice, as soon as the compulsion struck I was like a robotic slave and went and acted out, now in recovery I have a choice and it's up to me.  Just last week I was sitting in my office dealing with some very difficult financial issues and a major craving to act out hit me, I made some phone calls to members but did not get through, that’s when the choice came either I can continue to try and get hold of someone / leave my office or I could act out.  Unfortunately I chose to act out and the insanity set it.  Thank G-d I did not progress into a binge and I have been sober since, and thank G-d since then whenever the compulsion has struck I have been able to make the right choice, I also know that the longer I am sober the less the compulsions are likely to strike.

In summery all I have written is steps 1 - 3 of the program.  Step one I am powerless over my acting out, and when I act out my entire life becomes completely ruined,  Step 2 I by myself cannot cure myself but Hashem can restore me to sanity, if I use Step 3 and trust in Him take the right actions.

Most importantly, is to keep coming back.
London

Wow, what amazing answers from Hoping and LONDON!!

P.S. London, I wonder if Hashem didn't put you through so much just to be able to inspire us here on the forum!

Dear Postal - Ditto, Guard and London said it better than I could.

Questions:

Are you alone in this "fight"? Meaning, are the only other peoplewith you, us forum-people?

I ask because I'd never had gotten any sobriety had I been alone in any way. I needed fellow addicts, fellow losers-against-lust to see and talk to, daily. I would never have worked the steps alone. The tendency of most guys I meet (including myself) is
1-to deny they are actually out of control of their behavior, and
2-almost as soon as they have a period of sobriety they start to doubt, inside (where it counts), that they are still unable to struggle and win against lust. They thus renew their "lust license". The result is that they "fall". I have come to see that I have never had a problem with lust, and likely will never again, without first renewing my "lust license" subconsciously. I simply cannot struggle with lust at all. That means I have no business looking at or even thinking about things that will begin the struggle. Among them are: "hey, what wouldv'e happened if..." and "I wonder if she...", and other greatest hits, like "I know I could've beaten it last time if I wouldv'e just stopped after...instead of after...". Most of us apparently find we can't even afford to regret the past. "One day at a time" means that, too, you know...
If I was doing this w/o meetings, a sponsor, and daily contact w/other addicts, forget it. I'd have gotten permanently lost in the gaava of "I can beat this!(w/Hashem's help whatever that means)",  or "I'm better now", or "If I can't understand it, I won't try it", you know, stuff like that. I would still be trying to do it my way, and I'd certainly be dead by now. Really.
So consider reading the first couple of chapters of AA and see if your story is similar to Bill's (or read SA member stories in "Recovery Continues" - I recommend AA better)  because it was only possible for me to finally get better once I accepted that I was not just another guy with a real bad yetzer hora, but actually an addict, just like the drug addicts on the news. I consider it just another madreiga of "Leiv Nishbar veNidkeh Elokim Lo Sivzeh" - the heart needs to be broken when the ratzon is not enough.
Love,
Dov

I want to give an enormous THANK YOU to hoping, Reb Guard, london, and dov for such amazing responses. They are helping me so much.

I've been back and forth about my views of the 12 steps/SA.  I agree with the steps (powerlessness, turning over to H', etc), but am unsure of the culture and being involved with SA. Is SA the only option for ALL.

(The way I understand the discussion on this forum is, I apologize if I've incorrectly stated the views of both sides) Many have come to SA and swear by it because nothing else has worked for them, not Rabbis, not Torah/Mussar, etc. But then there is the other side that, which I tend to agree with...that the solution is Torah (which has the 12 steps).

Personally, I think my situation might be a little different: I became religious a year ago AND joined this forum around the same time. Prior to a year ago, I did not try to go more than a couple days without giving in. I had very little to no motivation to stop (it wasn't ruining my life, though it did have a negative affect on it).

I don't think I've given the Torah/Mussar enough of a chance. After all, there are still lessons for me to learn. Thank you London for explaining this idea to me: with the yh, there is no limit to the filth that it will lead you to.

I agree that I need to speak with other on a daily basis. I agree that there is more that I can do. I agree that I haven't given it my all.

But I still don't know about joining SA (I tend to agree with bardichev and battleworn, i think), but do think that the 12 steps are a great conceptualization of the road to recovery.

Maybe since I've lived a completely secular life up until a year ago, I'm a little wary to go back when there is a Torah option (and I still think there is one).

PLEASE PLEASE correct me if my views are incorrect...its hard to keep up with the great discussions here.

Postal, please see today's Chizuk e-mail (#510).

Dov, this concept of "the heart needs to be broken when the ratzon is not enough" is so brilliant. How come I never heard you say this before? This is a whole new way of looking at the 12-Steps, and especially the LIVE groups!

PostalServicio wrote on 22 Jun 2009 19:21:


Dear Postal

I would like to share with you and this forum an amazing experience I just had.  My seven year old daughter is going through a difficult time at school at the moment, both socially and academically.  This morning she made a massive tantrum that she is not going to school, refusing to eat breakfast and throwing her bag around.  In the car on the way to school she told me how sad she is that she does not have friends etc, I was able to sympathise with her and told her that I will speak to her teachers.

After she left the car a huge craving swept through me to act out.  My daughter is suffering, which is in turn causing me great emotional pain as a father.  I am also an addict and have pre-programmed to medicate myself whenever I face difficult situations  with acting out or food.  However what my program has taught me is that difficult feelings won’t kill me and I was able to sit through the craving until it passed then I experienced the sadness for my daughter and I cried for the first time today in  many many months.  I also phoned my sponsor and shared with him what had happened, not to get advice but just to share with another person who understands the way I work.  He encouraged me to pray for my daughter and told me as they say in AA “this too shall pass”.  I am so grateful today for my program that is giving me another choice, to be able to experience difficult situations without acting out.  There is no way I can do this on my own I need other people to constantly to fall on to give me strength for their encouragement.  Through this I can accept my situation and daven to Hashem that  his will not mine be done today.