Ovadiah! I find that it's easier to not make this into that big of a deal. This should not be something you think about unless you need to. Don't wake up the sleeping lion. As in, if at the moment you're not battling taivah, you really shouldn't start thinking about the heroic battle you're fighting and all that, because it just makes the yetzer wake up.

Anyway, we just havet to live our life as much as possible without engaging this enemy in combat, and if he comes to bother us, and sometimes he does for a long period of time (I had a three day siege recently), eventually he goes away and leaves us alone for a nice amount of time too, which I am currently enjoying. The key is to have a rock solid schedule that keeps you busy and out of trouble, leaving no time to think about the good old days, about taivah and porn and whatnot.

As for your work environment, I'm not sure what to tell you. I have trouble with unfiltered internet, but maybe you could make a neder that no matter what you won't use anybody else's computer.

Hatzlacha!

BecomeHoly wrote on 09 Feb 2010 11:46:

Today is day 30.
Last night I realized an unbelievable thing. Two days ago, I made the first post on this thread since my fall, and because I counted 28 days clean I adjusted the title of this thread. Before, it read “no koach” .I changed it and put the “no” in brackets. For some reason I did not feel like deleting it altogether.
On my way home from work it hit me that the Gematria of Koach is 28. I felt like I had been given a message. After 28 days I was being given the koach to continue.
Please HaShem continue to give me and all the special people who are being Mekadesh Shem Shomayim in the battle with the Yetzer Hora, the strength and Koach which we need.

ki hu hanosen lecha 28 la'asos choyil!!  :D

Keep up the great work!

You think YOU got no koach???

i lose mine after 2 weeks, and you are after a month. VeHA Raiya you where already fighting a long time without any koach!! So just keep up whatever you are doing

Keep on trucking - and remember that you should feel proud of yourself - you know that Hashem is!

Day 43. Over six weeks clean B”H, and 11 weeks since beginning the count.
The truth is that as happy as I feel with my progress, there is also a certain confusion. It is very hard to describe but I will try. Incidentally one of the reasons why I have not been posting too often recently, besides for being very preoccupied is because it has been very difficult for me to organize and clarify my thoughts and feelings.
I live in Erets Yisroel. As everyone knows, part of life here is that unfortunately every bus and every mall is a potential terrorist target. Whenever c”v there are attacks one can feel the tension and fear in the air, but as time goes on, and the memories begin to fade the fear goes and with it the caution. Many times we are reminded by members of the security and defense services that this is only a “sheket medume” a false sense of security and that the enemy is really lurking and lying low waiting to pounce.
When I think about how I feel, this comes to mind. The Y”H seems to have disappeared or at least is lying low, and I can’t help thinking that it is a “sheket medume”. It is a very unnerving feeling as I sort of feel that I am waiting for the Y”H to reappear.
Another  thing , and this might be part of the first thing is that in a certain way I miss the Y”H. Not the lust, or the shmutz (I hope !!!) but the fight, the excitement and the thrill. I feel like I am just cruising along. This also makes daavening unfocused as I feel like I have no specific direction. This is not to say that I don’t have other areas of Avodas HaShem but somehow I feel that part of me is missing and I need to fill it.
This reminds me of a joke.
Every normal Jewish household come to Pesach exhausted, and many have to fight to stay awake during the Seder. One individual told his wife “I am fed uo of sleeping through the Seder. This year we are going to spend the three days before Pesach in a hotel. That way we will come to Pesach refreshed”.
All went according to plan until they started Magid. Suddenly the man realized that he had a lot of time on his hands which he was not used to, with nothing to fill it with”. In other words, without realizing it, falling asleep had been part and parcel of his Seder and now that he had sorted out the problem, he needed to fill the gap.
I hope that I am making sense and I would be grateful for some feedback. (Once again I apologize for being unable to reply to other posts on the forum for lack of time and peace of mind)
Now that I forced myself to write this, already I feel more focused. I am once again amazed and thankful for the opportunity which GYE has given me to be able to speak my heart out.

Hi! I just realized, in an accurate counting, that I'm at day 42. 42/42 (fall-free, k'eh). Pretty much where you are.

We seem to be sharing many symptoms in common.  I am irritable for no good reason, and having trouble focusing. I thought it was due to other 'situations' in life (parnassa, children, whatever) but I must confess that my staying clean has got to be at least PART of the equation.

I don't have any eitzas for you, obviously; I can't even make any for myself.  Just wanted you to know there's another post-er on the Forum who's at just about exactly the same count as you. I'd be happy to compare notes if you'd be michazek.  - Briut

Definitely - I know that posting here forces me to consider what I'm feeling, what's going on, etc. That's one of the wonderful things about GYE!

You've hit on an incredible point, and I think Dov will be very happy when he see it! We can get very involved in the struggle, to the point where we almost don't want it to go away!

I think that with your joke, you really answered the question - you need to find real direction, instead of just direction forced as a reaction to the yetzer hora.

Please keep posting your wisdom - we're all learning from you!

ovadia wrote on 23 Feb 2010 10:58:
I can totally understand you on this pint. I have the same feelings when things get good. But we need to realize that its the YH talking , not our real self. Trust me, if we stay clean for long enough hell find some other thing to bother us about to give us the thrill back.

About th davening; Why not try and focus on one specfic bracha for lets say a week. Ata chonen leadom daas, im sure we all wouldnt mind have some more daas?? Do this till you feel the bracha is real by you. Then move onto something else. Sham koleinu etc etc. Daving isny only meant in situations when we feel the great need of Hashems help, but even when we feel things are going good. We need to daven to Hashem and ask him to keep it this way.

Keep it rollin and hatzlacha rabbah. I did miss you though! :-\ :D

Day 55/91
I hope that you guys don’t mind that I didn’t respond right away to what you all wrote to me. I often wish that I could be more active on the forum but it takes me so long to read everything and then to think of what to write back that by the time I am able to, I feel that it is a bit out of date. Also I always feel that I am taking advantage in that I only post my own things and I don’t respond on other threads. But on days like today when I have “that feeling” and I know that back then I would have given in by now, I know that GYE is what keeps me going and that I have to keep active contact.
But, I do save what you wrote and every so often I read it and when I do it gives my Neshomo a silent feeling of connection with you guys which tells me that I have to keep going.
So, I just wanted to say again how much I appreciate all the chizuk both direct and indirect and that I hope that I you understand me.
Briut wrote on 23 Feb 2010 13:42:

I was very happy to hear that you are doing so well. I hope that you have kutgw since then too.
silentbattle wrote on 23 Feb 2010 16:21:


SB - A belated Mazel Tov on your reaching 90. You cannot imagine how good it made me feel. Another tremendous Kidush HaShem. One day you will have to teach me how you manage to write so many beautiful responses to so many different people. It seems like you are always there for everyone and I really admire you.
imtrying25 wrote on 23 Feb 2010 19:02:

Thank you for identifying and thanks for being so special.
After I wrote all that, I realized that at least for me there is a big difference between when I am focused and when I am not. This requires more organized thought and I intend Bli Neder to put some of those thoughts to paper as soon as I am able to.

I was right. i had a feeling that today is one of those days. it is strange because I was beginning to think that I was past it already. (I even began to think that maybe there is something wrong with me!)
I think that what got me "going" is the weather. It is the beginning of the spring and that always gives me warm jumpy feelings. It makes me feel free and that I want to let go - it is hard to describe. (Sorry for sounding so wierd, but I just have to write it.)
Just before it was time for Mincha, and I really did not want to go. I did not want to meet anyone including H-S-M. I think that my inclination was just to continue in floating, fantasy world. Anyway B"H I forced myself to go, and on the way I forced myself to think - What is it that I am craving now that I will get if I act out?
The answer in this case I think is that acting out would make me touch base again, to zero in. Because if I do it then i will feel bad, and feeling bad makes me FEEL MYSELF again.
So basically I think that I have a need to reset myself. Well it seems that there is the "easy way" and the not so easy way, and this time I am not going straight for the "easy way".
I have decided to try and concentrate on one thing that I have to do, without thinking about all the other things that I have to accomplish, (because I know that that will just break the focus again) I will Bli Neder post again soon.
If anyone has any idea what I am talking about and maybe can give me an Eitsa, I would really appreciate it. 

Dear R' Ovadia,

We haven't met yet...
But your thread is pretty inspiring....

I have an answer to your question, but I don't know enough about you and your sitch to say anything confidently...

I'll just share some thoughts....

In general there is a known phenomenon in psychology that people often resist leaving situations, habits, etc. that are dysfunctional/painful/etc.....

One reason is that in a dysfunctional situation your subconscious can dream about a better times...
But when when you are on the road to getting better...  you look at it like, is this it?

Some say that when you are dysfunctional there is an automatic feeling of self pity which can be somewhat soothing....

I don't think these apply much to you...

However, the following may apply:

As bad as pain/dysfunction is, there is one thing about it: YOU FEEL ALIVE... You are in pain/dysfunction but none-the-less alive...

Another reason is a loss of identity. Humans need a feeling of knowing who we are. when we were dysfunctional for a while the dysfunction becomes part of our identity....
When we are suddenly different (Like you are now..) we have just lost our identity we lost a part (or sometimes almost all) of what we where... (remember, dysfunction is a part of a much larger bigger mental/emotional dynamic..) all that is lost....

Just from reading your thread, I'd guess (a wild guess...) that this last thing of losing your identity is playing a bit of a role here. And the loss of feeling of alive as well... (the other things probably not so much...)

Another thing and I'd guess (again a wild guess) that this is the core:

the way some people deal with a emotion/urge/part of them that they fear (In your case that would be Lust...) is to just totally cut it off... Just disassociate from it... Push the whole thing away....
Our brains have the ability to do this when it perceives a given emotion/urge/part as very threatening...
The way the mind does this is to just not feel... cut your feelings off...

I only know about this bec. I did this very heavily throughout my life (all automatically/unconsciously) ... I was in a very distressful environment and just cut off all my emotions....
I wonder if you are doing this to some degree...

IN conclusion, if you are disassociating or feel like you just lost a part of your identity (a part of yourself...)
The only thing that I know of (there are likely other solutions...) is to not cut out all the emotions that you used to have... you have to allow the emotions to come up (yes, the ones you hate so much...) and work through them...

Figure out a way to keep your self form acting based on them, without deleting them...
Emotions can't be deleted.... (Trust me on this... we don't have a delete button other than just not feeling at all...)

Hope I'm not totally off....

Peace and love my holy brother...

Dear Trying,

I am really overwhelmed that you chose to call this thread inspiring. It really was the last term i would have used. All i am doing is just..........trying.

I am also very thankful for the time and thought you have put in to help me. What you have written is very deep and will take me time to digest and figure out how applicable it is to me. I have printed it out and I will go through it on my way home when I will have more peace of mind.

I will just say at the same time that so far today I am ok. I always feel so strange and dependent when I write that but since I know how much you care I am able to.

BeAhavo

Ovadia

Hey man,

To me a guy sitting and working through his stuff... Trying to become a better person thinking things through.... is inspiring... What can I say...

Also I am pretty sure that some/most of the things I said are not at all applicable... Don't waist too much time figuring out my rant....

I just put out some food for thought....

Take what fits... Leave the rest for the next guy...

Main thing is your Clean for quiet a while...

Keep it up...

Peace and Love...

Well, I thought it through last night and this is what I came up with.
You made three important points. I will begin with the last one, because I did not really understand where you are coming from. What makes you think that I have emotions which I hate and that I am cutting out? Please let me know as I respect your advice and look forward to understanding.
The first two points; feeling alive and identity loss are very relevant.
The way I see it is like this.
Like everyone else in family GYE, I have emotional and spiritual depth. Although outwardly I can interact and socialize on a pretty normal level, the real me is the part of me that is deep inside, deeper than any physical relationship. (This includes my relationship with my wife. B”H I have a special wife and a healthy marriage but we both understand that these issues are out of her depth. As a side point I think is very healthy for people like me, because it gives stability to our marriage and to me.)
The only way that my spiritual nerve endings become alive is by experiencing true Ruchniyus, (Proper da’avening, learning, Mussar and Hashkofo) with which B”H I have had some Hatzlacha.
But some of the time the inner me becomes lonely and unfulfilled. And it seems that lust/beauty is a drug for these needs. (Of course once the lust sucks you in then it just becomes regular Taavo, but this might be the trigger). As you say, now that it is unavailable to me these needs are becoming more apparent, creating (sometimes) a “dead” feeling and a new search for identity.
BTW all of the above is really a mefuresha Seif in the Attitude Handbook. I quote it here for everyone’s benefit.
17. Redirecting the power in our souls
In general, those who struggle a lot with these issues, have a great deal of emotional and spiritual energy inside them. It is they who actually have the capacity and potential for the most intense spiritual connection with Hashem. We just need to learn how to channel the energy of our souls in the proper ways. It is also known, that people with particular character traits, such as creativity, love for people and spiritual sensitivity, are more prone to seeking alternate expression for their inner strengths through a stronger than usual sexual drive. That is why it is so important to learn how to channel these strengths we have in the proper ways. Heightened sexual desire is actually a symptom of a deep subconscious need that - for some reason - has still not reached fulfillment.
As always I am grateful to you and GYE for the opportunity to be able to discuss my feelings openly and without inhibition.