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The Road To Being Honest With Myself (and others:)
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Scientific studies show that it takes 90 days to break an addictive pattern in the mind. Start your own Log of your journey to 90 days! Post here to update us on your status and to give each other chizuk to stay strong!

TOPIC: The Road To Being Honest With Myself (and others:) 51940 Views

Re: The Road To Being Honest With Myself (and others:) 27 Jun 2017 02:50 #316173

  • Hakolhevel
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Hakolhevel wrote on 23 Jun 2017 04:32:

Mesayin wrote on 20 Jun 2017 20:27:
Well said Shlomo. Like a user called "One_day_at_a_time once told me: "I can bring the horse to the water but I can't make him drink".

From what I gathered, an idea that helps us transform as people is when we take a close look at the things we do when acting out and the benefit that we have from it and then see the cost (i.e. what we are paying for when we act out), then we change our behavior. We always trade a lesser good for a greater good, so when we realize what it is costing us when acting out against the benefit of it then we quickly realize that we are being ripped off our entire lives.



I am pretty sure I very much disagree. Look at this quote from earlier in my thread. (If I misunderstood you I apologize in advance)

Singularity wrote on 8 Mar, 2017:True. You gotta want to change. But why? Porn is so much fun. And it feels good. What else is there?  It's a hard question to answer. But such is the virtue of free will. HakolHevel wrote on 8 Mar, 2017: Great Question! Well I can tell you what is not the answer The answer is not because I feel terrible afterwards. The answer is not because I feel guilty for betraying Hashem and my wife. The answer is not because it doesn't feel good anyway (the more you go after it the harder it is to find satisfaction in it). The answer is not because I feel like a hypocrite when I do it. The answer is not because I know it's wrong. The answer is not because I feel terrible I might die someday with this terrible secret. So what truly is the answer, I want to change but why? All those things I mentioned above never helped (in the long run) in the past, why should this time be different??????????????????????????????????
:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!

I still believe what I wrote. In the long run, just having a cost benefit analysis will not work. So have I come to an answer? I think so

I think it is realizing that acting out, does not just have all these bad things but it is literally death (and insanity)!

In other words, I don't choose not to act out because I have a big business deal tomorrow and I know Hashem can make that deal go bad, or because I feel guilty being with my wife afterwards... that all doesn't help in the long run, lust/porn/masturbation is just to powerful it will eventually overtake me. It's to sweet/fun and exciting.

What drives my will to change and not act out in the long run (ODAAT) is the realization that it is a matter of life and death. If I give in to lust, I'm not just living a lesser quality life, rather I'm not living life!!!! and that is too steep a price to pay!

Just wanted to clarify, I'm not saying it doesn't work, rather it doesn't work for me... Hope I didn't come off to harsh

Re: The Road To Being Honest With Myself (and others:) 27 Jun 2017 12:58 #316192

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Hakolhevel wrote on 27 Jun 2017 02:50:

What drives my will to change and not act out in the long run is the realization that it is a matter of life and death. If I give in to lust, I'm not just living a lesser quality life, rather I'm not living life!!!!


Can you elaborate on this concept?
Please explain how you are not living life when you act out.
Thanks.

Re: The Road To Being Honest With Myself (and others:) 02 Jul 2017 02:44 #316524

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Shteeble wrote on 27 Jun 2017 12:58:

Hakolhevel wrote on 27 Jun 2017 02:50:

What drives my will to change and not act out in the long run is the realization that it is a matter of life and death. If I give in to lust, I'm not just living a lesser quality life, rather I'm not living life!!!!


Can you elaborate on this concept?
Please explain how you are not living life when you act out.
Thanks.

Great question Shteeble, and good to see you here again. Hope to see you more often

Anyway in response, have you ever heard the statement "master of all trades jack of none" that's what it's like when i act out, I am obviously not living my real life, and I am not engaged in it either, constantly thinking about my next fix. Or spending my time fighting my next fix

And I am also not living my virtual life, it's all @ 3 am when my wife is deep asleep.

Living a double life in my books is death. It has nothing to do with porn/masturbation being a sin, it has to do with the double life. unlike other sins where I slip up, they are not a double life, they are to be expected and more importantly not connected to a whole load of lying.

So again in conclusion, what drives me to change is not the cost benefit analysis (it doesn't feel good anyway... I feel guilty afterwards) it's reminding myself that I'm not living life when I act out.

Makes sense? Relate?

Re: The Road To Being Honest With Myself (and others:) 02 Jul 2017 04:50 #316538

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Hakolhevel wrote on 02 Jul 2017 02:44:

Shteeble wrote on 27 Jun 2017 12:58:

Hakolhevel wrote on 27 Jun 2017 02:50:

What drives my will to change and not act out in the long run is the realization that it is a matter of life and death. If I give in to lust, I'm not just living a lesser quality life, rather I'm not living life!!!!


Can you elaborate on this concept?
Please explain how you are not living life when you act out.
Thanks.

Great question Shteeble, and good to see you here again. Hope to see you more often

Anyway in response, have you ever heard the statement "master of all trades jack of none" that's what it's like when i act out, I am obviously not living my real life, and I am not engaged in it either, constantly thinking about my next fix. Or spending my time fighting my next fix

And I am also not living my virtual life, it's all @ 3 am when my wife is deep asleep.

Living a double life in my books is death. It has nothing to do with porn/masturbation being a sin, it has to do with the double life. unlike other sins where I slip up, they are not a double life, they are to be expected and more importantly not connected to a whole load of lying.

So again in conclusion, what drives me to change is not the cost benefit analysis (it doesn't feel good anyway... I feel guilty afterwards) it's reminding myself that I'm not living life when I act out.

Makes sense? Relate?

Makes sense.
I don't relate.
But it makes sense.
well...
actually, I don't think I understand it.
I believe you 100% that this is how you experience it
but I don't get it.
Maybe it's different for different people.
​Or maybe I'm just missing something.

For me, it's all about the sin.
And any sin, in my book, would seem like a double life...
loshon hara, talking during davening, stealing, eating on yom kippur
and pretty much any aveiroh I can think of...

So what specifically about THIS make it a double life, where it's not about the aveiroh,
but rather about the death of living a double life?

Again, I believe you. I'm just trying to learn from you.
Thanks. And thanks for the kind words too.

Re: The Road To Being Honest With Myself (and others:) 04 Jul 2017 01:13 #316681

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If everyone around me where angels and I would be doing those sins you mentioned you might be correct, however I live in this world with imperfect human beings.

So in the world I live I don't hide the fact that I have spoken loshon hara, or if I talk during davening. Most importantly I don't say lie upon lie to cover over what I am doing.

Your correct if it wasn't a sin it would not be a double life because everyone would be doing it and there would be no problem with it, or even if I was the only one doing it and there was no problem with it, I would not be leading a double life.

I guess what I'm getting at is that the double life is the killer, it happens to be that because it's a sin that is why it's a double life for me. But it being a sin is not what's stopping me from continuing. it's the double life which = death. 

Now you might ask if it's just the double life that bothers me what stops me from indulging just a little like I do by other sins. The answer is because this is different, here I cannot just indulge a little, the moment I let my gaurd down and take a peak at a revealing photo, I will spiral totally out of control and be a slave to my lust.

As an aside, even lusting after my wife which is allowed, I can't handle, because I can't just lust after my wife, although I will admit it won't as quikly spill over to other lust.
Last Edit: 04 Jul 2017 01:15 by Hakolhevel.

Re: The Road To Being Honest With Myself (and others:) 05 Jul 2017 18:57 #316758

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Just to clarify. Any type of reason don't help during an actual lust attack. That is just what drives me to do the right things.

What it's required is surrender - and a few tricks up your sleeve don't hurt.

Re: The Road To Being Honest With Myself (and others:) 06 Jul 2017 16:41 #316807

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Just to be clear what do you mean by tricks?
I am happy to speak on the phone. Please email me at dms1234ongye@gmail.com

My name is Daniel, I go to face to face meetings and I work the 12 steps with a sponsor. 

Re: The Road To Being Honest With Myself (and others:) 07 Jul 2017 01:21 #316844

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I call them tricks, you may call them tips. you will find loads of them.

Everyone finds what works for them, it may be leaving your phone out of your bedroom at night to avoid confrontation with temptation, it may be (and is probably the best) calling a friend/wife/random stranger and the list goes on. 

My experience was that if you work your recovery the need for tricks become less as time goes on.

Re: The Road To Being Honest With Myself (and others:) 07 Jul 2017 03:30 #316847

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Any trick that involves my will, like say, leave a shiur on when i am going to sleep so that i will be distracted, doesnt work for me. I am powerless. I need God's help. There are many recovery tools that i need but they dont exactly revolve around removing the temptation. For example: doing inventories or meditating or calling my sponsor. 

When i feel that i am lusting definitely getting it out into the light helps and also i am being honest so that does cool the temptation and lust but unless i figure out what exactly is wrong: fear, anger, another lust is waiting right around the corner. 

Tricks sound to me like i am using my will. I am an addict. My will doesnt help. Maybe you or others tricks work. That could be all you need, i need a whole emotional, spiritual upheaval to help me recover. 

When i work my program, i do not get tempted. Its a nes, an incredible miracle.
I am happy to speak on the phone. Please email me at dms1234ongye@gmail.com

My name is Daniel, I go to face to face meetings and I work the 12 steps with a sponsor. 

Re: The Road To Being Honest With Myself (and others:) 10 Jul 2017 18:33 #316989

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Do not stop at go. do not collect 200. keep on trucking one mile at a time.

Re: The Road To Being Honest With Myself (and others:) 14 Jul 2017 01:57 #317174

  • Hakolhevel
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For those who don't know it don't go looking it up. But I take it the song "tomorrow" would kinda be there antithesis of gye thinking.

I was thinking if it today as I am going thru a stressful time right now ( which may have caused my fall) and I find myself thinking of the song in which the message is tomorrow will be better.

But I think that we have to learn to live with the life we have today, despite it's problems and not just say, "well there is always tomorrow that will be brighter and better..."

Re: The Road To Being Honest With Myself (and others:) 17 Jul 2017 02:44 #317297

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So true. (today, this moment, is really all that we got)

"Regret is living in the past, anxiety is living in the future. Serenity is living in the present." (emphasis on "living" ) 

Hatzlacha Rabba!! Take it One DAY at a time!! 

 

Re: The Road To Being Honest With Myself (and others:) 18 Jul 2017 22:37 #317422

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I was listening to a recorded dov call this morning and he mentioned in passing the difference between selfish and self absorbed.

I had never thought of it that way, but it made me realize how self absorbed I am. Anyone know of another recording/post where dov or anyone else delves deeper into the subject?

Re: The Road To Being Honest With Myself (and others:) 28 Jul 2017 14:03 #318010

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As much as I hate to admit it, I have come to the realization (for me at least) that 100% honesty will not happen here. Not to say that I or others are lying, rather there are too many details and each case is unique. So unless I where to write pages and pages, you will never get the entire story. And even then I'm not sure. Particularly since I can't share certain personal details on this annonymous forum.

That being said the forum is still a incredible tool!

Re: The Road To Being Honest With Myself (and others:) 28 Jul 2017 15:58 #318013

  • Shlomo24
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So talk to someone real
What works for me: 1) Honesty 2) Meetings 3) 12-step 4) Listening to my Sponsor 5) Not doing what I want to do 6) Inviting the God of my understanding into my life

"I can't do it, God can help." | "Everything I want is on the other side of fear." | "Where there is deprivation there is addiction." | "Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery." | "Stop stopping, start living."

My thread: Big Steps

Email: iam24zman@gmail.com
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