Come on kedshua, u r hung up on ur shabbos question
FFTS, u r right it can kill and we even got proof to it, it ruined our life halfway already. So we see that we gota change our ways
KOT

Kedusha, that's pretty intense. I actually heard a story kinda like that once about a certain Rov who told someone he needed money to help save kids from a place they shouldn't be. I think they were in a Christian orphanage maybe, and he wanted to get them out and make sure they didn't get lost in the religion. Anyway, he told the gvir that it was pikuach nefesh. The gvir responded, "Rabbi, pikuach nefesh is when you have a heart attack. Not this."

Later that week, on Friday night, the gvir was enjoying his seuda and all of a sudden his phone rings. Then it rings again. Over and over and over, so the gvir decided it must be a real emergency and picked up. Who was on the other side? The rabbi. Intense story.

I'm not sure which situation Kedusha is referring to - I guess you mean to call someone when you really need to. I actually had a situation where I fell when I couldn't fall asleep and it was after hamapil. I think I probably should have called someone then, even though I said hamapil already. Okay, I'm really hungry and it's time to eat. Thanks for the help!

Noya, see this thread, if you haven't already.

www.guardyoureyes.org/forum/index.php?topic=3196.msg84611#msg84611

Needless to say, you can talk after HaMapil to avoid a fall - no Sheilah needs to be asked.

It's truly amazing how much this disease twists our thoughts - we can convince ourselves that we shouldn't jump to make a call, even when it might lead to a fall, because we're not supposed to talk after hamapil.

Hey SB, I'm not sure why it's so twisted to think that. After all, it is assur to talk after HaMapil. So maybe one would have a hava amina that that issur could not be violated just to avoid another one. I also don't know where "No shaylah needs to be asked" came from. Is Kedusha a posek?

Did anyone actually hear this tshuva from a Rov? I think it would be logical to extrapolate if you could break Shabbos that you could talk after HaMapil, and you're saying it's muttar to call a Rov on Shabbos, but I at the same time have trouble feeling it's mamash pikuach nefesh. It would suck to fall, true. But I also have confidence that I wouldn't go any further down than I've ever been before. I have a certain line I never crossed, and I don't think I ever would, so I don't think my life would mamash be on the line. Unless you want to dray a kup and say that that fall would help chain into something many years down the line... could be I guess.

I am a bit peckish for pritzus right now. I saw an ad on the sidebar for some college skiing party, which of course employed beautiful girls wearing less clothing than would be advisable for skiing in order to promote the party. I x'ed the ad out and said it was offensive. The ad proceeded to come up again. I x'ed it again. Then I saw it again, and the third time was the charm for me to see what this party was all about. Let's just say I really want to go to the party.

Nah, I'm over-dramatizing things. I didn't see any pritzus on their site because I didn't click on "Nightlife," or anything like that, but I still shouldn't have been there to begin with. I do love skiing though, and I'm sure it would be geshmack as anything to go with coeds. Ahhh. Snap out of it!

Dear Noya,

1.) No offense was intended, so please don't take any.

2.) Not every question requires a Posek to answer it.  For example, if a person has to stay in one of two hotels for Pesach, in one he'll have to go against his minhag and eat Gebrukts, and in the other there is Pritzus and he's afraid he'll be megaleh arayos.

3.) Shulchan Aruch (siman 239) says that, not only shouldn't you talk after Hamapil, but you shouldn't be mafsik in some other way either, such as by eating or drinking.  Presumably, acting out would be no less of a hefsek!

4.) Although you happen to be right, don't assume that someone is not a Posek just because he's clean shaven!

Like Kedusha said, no offense intended, and I love you.

But as long as a fall isn't that big a deal, then I don't see how it's possible to stop doing it. Recovery is about seeing your life as unmanagable. Teshuva is based on seeing an action that we do as something that we cannot do anymore - not something that I'd prefer to stop, if everything works out. We say fell, shmell, but that's after we fall, not before.

And no, I don't see any hava amina - aside from the addiction aspect, and the fact that every time we choose to act out, we're taking one step closer to dying an addict (see chazal when they talk about doing an aveirah "one more time."), it's certainly clear that being mz"l is an extremely chamur aveirah. I don't think there's any comparison to speaking after hamapil - two totally different levels. Furthermore, one is allowed to say pesukim of torah, shemah, etc, and so this should fall under the same category.

For example, let's say you knew that someone was going to be mechalel shabbos, and you could prevent it by making a phone call - but you already said hamapil. Would you hesitate? I'm guessing not. The reason we 9and I include myself in stinkin' thinkin') question what to do in a situation like yours, is because we don't see a fall as being all that terrible, and we make al kinds of justifications for it,

hey NOYA just want to say i've started reading through your thread it's been giving me a heck of alot of inspiration. ur awesome man!

NOYA wrote on 24 Nov 2010 00:04:


...But I think it's also asur to act out after Hamapil.  But I should as a Rav to be sure.

Just dropping in ad saying hi.  I think this is my first time over in this thread.  Looks like I've been missing out.

--Eye.

Actually, I remember reading once in the Binas Adam that, if necessary, it is permitted to think Divrei Torah in the bathroom in order to prevent zera l'vatala.

Here we go again.   If the only way to avoid a huge aveira is to do a minor one, common sense says to do the minor aveira.  Of course what you're quoting goes beyond that, by teaching us that it's not only common sense, but it's actually permissible (at least in this particular instance).

Of course, Halevai, we should all merit being zahir b'mitzvah kala k'vachamurah, and not have to make these kinds of cheshbonos.

Kedusha wrote on 25 Nov 2010 19:10:
Yep, Kedush, here we go again. I'm SO IMPRESSED that  you believe you have a list of what the major and minor ones are. Okay, I can think of the Big Three and even the Ten, but in general I have no clue at ALL whether it's better to eat chazer or disparage a fellow Jew. You'd think that the loshon hara is way more serious, yet I seem to see Yidden do that all the time yet feign a heart attack ch'v at the McDonalds option.

How do we know?

Does He even expect us to know? Want us to know?

Personally, I think that after 120 we'll all find out that... it was all about shatnez.

But if you have a firm proof that there's a bigger and smaller, Kedush amush, let's have at it.

(And apologies for the thread hijack.

Briut,

Which is worse - eating your Chalah without salt, or being Motzi Zera Levatala?  You should be able to answer this, without any hesitation at all.

It's a mistake to think we never know which aveira is worse than the other.  Very often, we do know this, based on what either the Torah or Chazal tell us about how severe a particular aveira is. 

What people do is no proof - you're correct that Lashon Harah is far worse than eating at McDonald's (the Yerushalmi in the beginning of Peah says that lashon harah is worse than avoda zara, gilui arayos, and shefichas damim.  Also, lashon harah, which is a derivative of sinas chinam, was the cause of churban bayis sheni).

Hi, Reb NOYA! Just wanted to drop by and tell you that we missed you by the party here...

Hope you're doing ok!

Kedusha wrote on 25 Nov 2010 19:10:

OY VAY!  I guess I didn't realize what I was getting into.