Had a pretty tough day today. During lunch found myself trying to access inappropriate sites. But thank  Hashem my filter is reall tough. But what i found to push me was something else. The last 13 days i keep on saying to myself oh where i would be if i hadnt fell the last time etc etc. Well today i kept saying that even while i was searching. "Is it worth it and have to start over. Go through the agony of telling yourself that you could be by 24 or something instead your only by three. How i waited for the days to pass so i can get back to the 14 day again. Am i gonna ruin it again?" Well eventually it got me off the computer and out of the house. So where still pedaling but its getting tougher.

struggla21 wrote on 23 Nov 2009 17:14:

Thanks Struggla. You should all know that all the chizuk really helps me. Especially when im going through tough times. Thanks man.

Its almost over, the dreaded 'Monday'.
And tomorrow, yom shlishi  is "Tov Me'od"!

Hold onto that umbrelly handle,
tomorrow's almost here!

Im holding on Mom. But its not easy. The wind is really blowing very hard. I feel drained right now. I feel like ive been fighting the whole entire day. I just hope and pray i come out victorious. But it aint over till its over. Please daveb for me. I wanna get over this thing so badly. I feel that if i can get past the hard times it will only get easier. But i never can get past them. So here i am holding onto my umbrella for dear life, literally. I can use chizuk right now. Im starting to tear its so hard. AND I WANNA MAKE IT SO BADLY!!! HASHEM PLEASE!

I quoted you in today's chizuk e-mail: Saying of the Day!

It's pouring rain now, you can't avoid the storm. But you can dance in the rain, brother! Dance that you are fighting the battle of the king of kings!!

Tell yourself you'll act out tomorrow, but today - NOW WAY. Ask Hashem for sanity, just for today. Your tuchos won't fall off if you don't act out now.

If you're really desperate, see tip #11 on this page.

Please dont be desperate enough to try tip # 11!
Trust me, it aint pretty

Time for sleep here in the holy land IT25, how about sleeping through the last 45 minutes of 'Monday'?
If you feel really desperate, tiptoe into your daughters room, pull up a chair, and watch her gentle, rythmic breathing.
If you can pick her up without her waking, do it!
Hold her against your chest, and just breath in that delicious baby fresh smell...

imtrying25 wrote on 23 Nov 2009 20:25:

Airbag and seatbelt time....uh-oh.
Either the outer environment needs to change, or the inner environment does. One of them has to go. If you believe it's from inside you, I do not understand how anyone expects to "beat" a mental illness. Just go and ask any crazy person, maybe he'll tell you.... Now, if it's really just "a ta'ava", then I understand - fight, fight, fight. But if:
...as you put it, then perhaps, maybe, it's time to give the entire fight up to Hashem. To me, that means trusting Him (step 2). It means admitting to Him exactly what you want to do (step 1) and asking Him to help you just let go of the entire idea, to give it up completely. And then to take the actions of letting it go, like getting busy with something else(step 3). Preferably some way to give or love someone: people, lehavdil, Hashem (even ourselves...if we really know how to). And also, to me, it means agreeing to never take the credit for "winning" again. As long as you admit you are nuts, admit you have no other hope but His help, and do what you can to make going about His business your priority right now, it's His business if you succeed or fail, not yours.
Sound crazy? Well, I think busting one's head against the wall for the 15,000th time with the same losing derech - but harder this time - yet expecting things to be entirely different this time - is pretty crazy, too.  ;D


And when is that? Won't there be a next time? Yeah, it gets easier : for those who let go of it each time it gets easier. But for those who just distract themselves from it to get over it, I believe there is a residue from each struggle, that may not go away. A feeling of, "well, I gave up that nice one, I deserve a consolation prize" or, "poor me, I lost out on so much fun," or, "woohoo, I can control this stuff, after all! So maybe I can use and enjoy it and just stop it as soon as it starts to get out of hand, no?". Those natural thought patterns would build up in me over time until - forget it. No wonder it's a tidal wave then! And then we act as though it's such a suprise!  ???
I have no other explanation than the above for the very common phenomena of the guy (like me) who could "go for a month, or so, until the pressure builds up", or whatever. Or so many of the well-meaning folks with ~23 days, over and over again for five years...you know what i mean. How else can anyone explain that? Please let me know, will ya?
What people like me need is a psychic change. Not improvement, but a new derech. Let Hashem figure out if it's teshuvah or not. It's gotta be a different fight, or else. On a good day, I let the fight be His business and my job is to do His work...and when lust ideas occur to me I admit to myself that I am not just another yid with "a ta'yva", but rather, that I am 'cracked' in the head. I have an allergy. I am not able to lust like others can, and control it. They can, not I. So no wonder I need a Higher Power. I avoid it like fire by closing my eyes or my brain and doing something else. I make a call to a friend and admit exactly how sick i am. Then I go happily from there completely free.
I don't need Hashem's power to help me "beat" this YH. I need him to remove the lust from me. I need His help to get myself out of His way. I need to go about His work, period. Not fight any battles.

A huge problem here is that if you just extract the surrender and trust in Hashem, the whole thing still looks like some kind of winning. Some folks will totally mistake the "closing of the eyes" or the "making a call to another addict", as the way we fight it. It's not. It's the action we take to give it up. As many addicts who actually use the steps will attest, the total freedom from the nutty lust comes during the dialing of the friends phone # or during the prayer itself. G-d, whatever I am looking for in the image of that woman walking by, let me find it in You, instead." Ahhhh. By the time I get up to the second half of the word G-d, we feel the whole thing evaporating. It may not work perfectly all the time, but we stay sober from the bottom line behavior this way, no matter what. And over time, our heads change. The struggles are surrendered. There is no more pressure build up. If there is, then we take an honest look at our first step, perhaps with a friend and go on from there.



Well, I don't know if that constituted chizzuk, but sometimes we don't need encouragement but we need someone to remind us that "ein hadovor tolui ella bee", by holding up a mirror.  I hope you see that Hashem is in there right next to you, no matter what.

Disclaimer: The above is the sole experience of the writer, who is not an expert in any respect, and does not necessarily express the views and opinions of GYE.

Thanks To you all for answering me in my time in need. Well i went to the kosel and i davened maariv and i said tehillim. Alot! While i was going i was thinking the whole time Hashem please help me. Please help me get past all this lust. Help me give it up to you. I keep on telling myself that im different it theres nothing i can do about it. so Hashem its in your hands. was that good, Dov? I hope so. i read what you wrote and a agree with almost all of it. Ill probaly agree with the whle thing after reading it the 2nd time and understanding it fully. But i want to know if you think my approach is a good one. I tried distracting myself but it wasnt really working. So i went to the kosel. Is that considered Let go and let G-d? Anyways im feeling better now. I also noticed from the past that, when i hit the day i previously reached its usually the hardest day. I dont usually make it past but this time i hope i will. But the most important thing is that i need to feel that my aproach is a good one. So if you can please let me know what you think it will really be appreciated.

Rabbeinu Dov, you ARE GYE. I am but a humble Talmid of yours.

ImTrying, your approach is a good one, but you are trying to work the steps on your own. Dov will probably tell you that you need to work them with a sponsor and with live meetings, and you'll need members to call... We can't internalize a REAL change in our thinking over the long term just by trying to distract ourselves and davening to Hashem, can we Dov?

To quote Dov:




Yikes  :-\  :-[

Ok Dov. Here are my remarks on your post. PLEASE let me know your thoughts on them.


Of course its the inner environment that has to change. But at the same time it doesnt help having the outer environment. Ok its both. Everyday i have a fight but i do all types of things to just keep my mind off of it. It usually helps. But theres always the time when the ta'ava builds up really big. In those times there is no way for me to beat it if not whiteknuckling it. I say to myself all kinds of things. Like how bad i felt last time, or its not wrth having to start over, or i want to get over this already and its only gonna happen if i can control myself. If i just let go without thinking anything i dont stand a chance. Is this wrong?? Am i supposed to give in because i have a mental illness?

This s what im trying to do. These were the thoughts i was having while waiting for the bus to go to the kosel. hashem take it away. Thers no way i can do this myself. The getting busy with other things i did by going to the kosel. I went more for the getting busy, getting out of the house,getting away from everything than the davening itself!! But i felt i needed such a dramatic getting busy because the regulars wasnt helping. Even while busy im lusting.

Trust me R Dov , the only time im ghonna take credit for anything i do is while they carry me to my grave. I always say a real favor is when you do it without anything in mind cuz if not its just an investment. Give so you can get. Im a fighter. Im not ;looking to win or lose just to fight.

NO WAY!!! These thoughts are for winners. IM NOT A WINNER. IM A FIGHTER!!! The only thought i let myself think is; B"H im here and not at the begining again. Now i dont think a thought like that is gonna let me lose my grip. More than that i think it will help me along this battle. I fought till ow i can keep on fighting. AGAIN NOT WINNING.

Everything you write here R Dov i feel the same. I always say to myself ; Im sick imsick. Im an addict. Im different from other people. I am a lust machine. Oh how i wish i had a sponser. I requested one and never got an answer. Can i ask you to be my sponser?? I realize the benifit of such a thing and i really want it. No shame here im willing to give it all up to get past this thing. And you knowthat already R DOv. At least i hope you picked it p from our conversations.

Thinking these thoughts are great. I do it al the time. But i realize as an addict theres alot of emotion here. No matter what you tell your seichel your hergash wont always change. Ex yesterday. I thought all these types of thoughts but i felt my body craving. So i did everything in my power to not allow this crave to take over my seichel. Am i wrong again with this? Just telling god that it is his problem is gionna take away the emotion/hergish????

Ok ive said alot. Once again i ask you R Dov please take the time and respond to me. It helps me in more ways than you can imagine. Thank you.

Imtrying you're amazing. Days like those really stink. I don't know how to win on those days either. All I can recommend is when you're feeling structurally unsound, when taivah is breaking your body apart, you have to just use all that potential energy and pour it into davening to Hashem. And also you have to send out distress signals. Find someone you can call on the phone who can lift you up. I know I'm going to get days like that soon and I'm not looking forward at all, but it's part of the challenge I guess.

Well I would say when you are feeling "structurally unsound" (which I assume means weak) the best thing to do is change scenery. Theres something about where you are thats setting you off. You are probably alone and should go somewhere with people and make yourself of service to someone. And dont try to fight it. Surrender to Hashema dn admi that HE is the only ONE that can beat this. Not you.

-INH

Thanks Noya and Ineedhelp for your encouraging words. All the chizuk i can get really helps. Im feeling much better today and hope to continue this climb BS"D. Notice ineedhelp, that i did exactly like you said. I felt i needed to change so i went to the kosel. AND DAVENED HARD.

Yay Imtrying,

Dont forget to thank Hashem for keeping you clean. And realize what uve done with Hashems help. Keep it up

-INH

As usual, sorry I am long-winded, but with the help of my Best Friend, here are some thoughts for you:
You wrote

When i wrote to you that "I don't need Hashem's power to help me "beat" this YH. I need him to remove the lust from me. I need His help to get myself out of His way. I need to go about His work, period. Not fight any battles." I meant that the reason that the 12 steps are not about our lust problem (beside the simple admission of our lust illness in the first) is because our avodas Hashem/sanity/approach to life cannot be about fighting lust either. Focusing on fighting lust means we are probably thinking about it all the time (not a good idea :). To me, it also may mean that I am not serving Hashem. :o What?! Calm down. 8) ...that's better. What I mean is that I do not believe Hashem wants me to make a struggle with lust the focus of my life. Leave the romanticised and glorified pulverization of the YH to those more qualified, thank-you. I'm just a measly addict, anyway... What I believe my Tatty wants of me is: to serve Him. To live for Him. Making the struggle with lust my raison detre' is just as wacky to me as those guys who work out 18 hours a week and spend another 18 hours a week organizing their organic meals, another 5-10 hours reading about improving their health...I always wonder: what are they living for? to be healthy?? Doesn't it make more sense to be healthy in order to live?!
Anyway, you see it's insanity, no? There must be balance for a normal person, right?
Well, for me, an addict, the balance bar goes a bit the other way, believe it or not. I can't afford to struggle with lust as much as a normal yid can. For me, lust needs to be even farther out of the picture, even more remote. As much as possible, I need to keep the issue of whether I lust/not lust, act out/stay sober, come in contact with inappropriate scenery or not, etc, Hashem's business, rather than mine. True, I have to be wise, honest, take whatever steps needed to avoid it...I just can't afford to make a big deal of it.
The thing I need to make a big deal of is this: Doing His will for me today. Exactly what is that? Think about it, for it's a big deal. The biggest deal. Not "what does He want me to do with my life", but just today. On a good day that is my main concern/eisek, as much as possible. That's my business. Sound simple? It is.
No, I'm not a total idiot, I know what it's like to be mentally bombarded with old lust images, euphoric recall, and images of the women on the street. I am aware that once lust ideas get into my head it becomes very hard to think of anything else, especially avodas Hashem. That's why I generally do not let them in in the first place. Thinking about not thinking about them is just as dangerous for me. When I screw up, though, and they get in, I use the tools we talked about: calling someone and admitting it to kill the secret and ruin it's power (tzetel koton), thinking about what I really want from this image/pursuit - true pleasure, acceptance, and love  and admitting that it can't give it to me, and then asking Hashem to give them to me cuz only He's got 'em all. Whatever. There are many, many tools. But they are all ultimately half-measures. And, as they wrote in AA, "half-measures availed us nothing." Which I understand this way: If the main thing we are doing is fighting to stay sober, where's the beef? When does the avodas Hashem start? When does living start?!
So, that's why I'm not so comfortable with:
True, true, once we are in trouble, getting away w/o giving in to the temptation somehow, is technically in the category of avodas Hashem, but for an addict - of all people - I find that lifestyle completely unacceptable. (In fact, In mt case, I don't even look at it as in the category of avodas Hashem, any more than I view catching my balance when slipping - it's purely selfish. And I wouldn't have it any other way!)  


Easy now. Do you mean this in a morally judgemental way, at all? Is there any guilt with that self-assessment? What I mean is only a medical diagnosis. Just a neutral, simple, incontrovertible fact...Whenever I admit the truth, the lust temptations immediately become a bit more silly. Why would I want to eat PBJ if I'm really allergic to peanuts?! (see the Sfas Emes on why Yitchok Avinu was named Yitzchok even though he was for middas haDin and yir'ah!!) On the other hand, a negating, or guilty approach would just make me feel like garbage and unworthy....not a good idea. Am I misreading you completely, chaver?


See, the fact that i crave it like crazy doesn't bother me at all. A craving does not take me from Hashem. It's like gas pains. Or maybe gas....that's all. It doesn't make me possul for being what I am. He loves me - a luster - like crazy, warts and all! He'll help us out even with the craving. Don't worry so much. Find a friend to share it with once in a while  - not to fight it, but to let it go and see past it to the real avodah of your day! CRAVING SHMAVING!! is a great motto. (thanks, berdichever!!)
Does that help?