Hello to all the heros in this forum!
I call all of you heros - because it takes a lot of courage to admit of sexuality addiction! well at least in my case.

Unfortunately it took a separation from my wife to come to realize this! I was so lost - and had no clue what i was into!
I did crazy things - and i demanded from my wife unimaginable things! to all of which today - i can't believe I ever did!

BH I am now over 10 weeks sober, have started working the 12 steps - and keeping my eyes in control to the best of my ability - every time i see something that would normally arouse me - I pray to G-d to take these thoughts out of my head and that I should only think of my wife.

Unfortunately my wife is fully decided that she wants a divorce - and doesn't want to hear of anything. to me this sounds a bit odd - since for the past 5 months she could have gotten a divorce already but she didn't. Most of the people around her think she is just confused.

I pray that Hashem has accepted my full teshuva and will give me a second chance with my wife whom i still love dearly and with my 3 adorable babies (ages 4,3, and 2).

I know that i am far from fixed (for if I was - there will be no more need for me in this world and I would move on to the next) - but i am changed!!! I am not the same person i was 5 months ago! I do not look at women the way i used to - I do not talk to them the way i used to etc. (a lot of my work and school is around women and the internet.)

I have gotten rid of all my 'contacts' that were for the wrong reasons - I got rid of all the sites etc. that i used to visit. Now I strictly deal with women on a strict business level - no relationships what so ever!!!

I started reading books like - 'facing the shadow', 'garden of peace' and a few other similar titles...

Unfortunately in my area all meetings are in French and the only english one is on monday night - when i am in school (university). therefore I am looking for alternatives - to which i need better advice.

Other changes in my life include but not limited to: 4-5 hours of prayer a day, a minimum of 2 shiurim a week, daily online shiurim, daily learning when ever riding public transportation or in public waiting areas (in order to guard my eyes from wondering where they are not supposed to - and when an attraction passes by - I work very hard to stay focused to my iPhone or book that i am reading trying very hard not to look up) when walking in the street - I make sure to stay focused on my destination and not look around to much - if something catches my eye - I pray to G-d and tell the evil inclination to find himself another scapegoat and not me...

I pray to Hashem that He open up my wife's heart to give me another chance - to give our kids another chance, to give herself another chance and to give our family another chance. - I hope she doesn't make the dramatic mistake of divorce where she might suffer in other ways from another man or whatever hardship she may face in the future - whereas she now has a chance to get back to her husband who loves her, cares for her and cherishes her. A husband who realized his grave mistakes and will work VERY hard on fixing them and correcting the past. With G-d's help and with all our prayer accumulated I will get back together with my wife and get a chance to treat her the way women should be treated!

Thank you for listening and taking the time to read my post - I look forward to some interesting conversations and get to talk to people.

All the best

Y

Welcome Webbwatch.  I understand what it feels like to have lost your wife and so very much wanting another chance.  I'm sorry you have this scary thing to deal with.

Have you put a filter on your puter yet?

Do you think she would talk with a rav or rebbitzen about the situation?  Maybe together?

it sounds like you've done so much amazing work already.  10 weeks clean is a huge amount of time.  Keep up the good work.

Did you have any help to make it this far?

hatzlocho.

Welcome. Don't have much to say. Your story encourages me to make sure I really get my
act together soon.

Inspiring story!

If you would send a letter to your wife describing what you have told us here, do you think it might help her have a change of heart?
Alternatively, do you think your wife would agree to speak with a therapist or with our hotline, which could help her understand the nature of addiction and to appreciate that her husband is trying so hard? Elya and his wife, on our hotline, have helped save a few marriages already!

As far as 12-Step groups in English, why not join our 12-Step phone conference with Duvid Chaim?

May Hashem be with you and give you strength to find peace, sobriety and have another chance.

Hi and thank you all for your support so far!

@1Daat - scary is not the right term! this is worse than hell!!! you see when we die our neshama goes up to heaven and is judged - we see all the sins we have committed and those sins we have never atoned for - then our neshama begs to go to hell because it knows it will get cleaned. But here in this world - our bodies are scared of pain - when we go through a cleaning process here in this world - it is so much more painful than that of hell! because we are not looking forward to it and it is much harder work down here! that is our mission in this world!

From my understanding she is talking to a Rebbetzin personally and she has support of her friends - my problem with it is - that these people have no clue about what this illness is all about - unfortunately due to our education system and our misconceptions - as a society we see men's sexuality as a "manly thing" and the perception leads us to an illusion - that is a man has this problem he will never change. I lost a friendship of over 22 years because he and his family found out that i cheated on my wife!
With the grace of G-d I am now talking to my friend - and telling him a bit about this illness as well as telling him how much i have changed over the course of the time - he is slowly talking to me again - hopefully his family will sometime start as well.

The local Rav is on the case - and he is pushing for a meeting with my sex therapist - this way my wife should get a little educated on this situation and get affirmed that much change has been done and much more is on the way. So we are now waiting for her decision whether or not she will accept to go to this meeting or not.

My wife's main problem - is that she feels that she gave it all for our 5 years of marriage - whereas i feel we had a very big gap in our communication - we never went to any therapists nor did we ever speak to a Rabbi! to top this off - when we got separated - the reason was mainly because i wasn't helping her with the kids and house. Then when the Bet Din called me - i found out about my sexual problems. At first i didn't think it was related - then i denied everything - but the Rav said - that i had nothing to lose but to go talk to a therapist - that is when everything changed!

It was literally over night - with the grace of G-d - the minute i found out that this was an illness - it is not normal to act in such ways etc. I just cold turkey stopped - i slipped once - but i have been sober for over 10 weeks!!!

The help that I had till now - was #1 seeing a therapist once a week for the past 10 weeks, and #2 identifying what triggers my need to act out. I worked very hard to stay conscious of the triggers - for example - one of the main reasons i have this issue - is because i grew up in an abused home (sexually, emotionally and physically) - i left the home at 15, and got married at 19 - all in order to run away from my parent's home. now with the separation I am back at their home! at 25!!! and the crazy thing is i am still being abused! (now it's more emotionally than anything else) - so when i was younger i would act out when i got abused - but now i say hell with my father or mother - why should they be the cause of my suffering - screw them - let them scream till tomorrow - but i will not act out! and then i leave the room or the house - go for a walk, go to the library, go to a friend's house etc.
That's mostly what helped me! Also over the course of the time - i met some really nice people that were trying to understand my situation and try to get me and my wife back together again - they found out about my problem - and they didn't judge me - instead they listened to what i had to say and they supported me! that was something special!

@Holy Yid - I am glad that i was able to inspire you - that gives me more encouragement to continue. I actually started researching marriage therapy online now as a hobby - with G-d's grace and help i look forward to getting active in that field sometime in the future! for now the best advice i can give you - is look up Rabbi Lazer Brody - start reading "The Garden of Peace" and other such titles - start implementing them. Pray to G-d and be happy that He is listening to you - have full trust and blind faith in Him and you will see wonders and miracles like you have never imagined possible!

@Guardureyes - I sent my wife a 13 page letter explaining to her everything, as well as a detailed plan of how i plan to change in the future. I never got any feedback. You see my wife and I don't talk at all at the moment other than our plans with visitation rights for the kids and any other crucial bills that have to be paid - otherwise 0% contact! the only minimal feedback i get is from some of her friends that are still in contact with me - that tell me that she is 100% not interested in knowing or hearing of any changes in me - and that she wants a divorce no matter what.

As I have mentioned earlier - the Rav put the suggestion of meeting with my therapist (the four of us - the Rav, my wife, therapist and I) to get a better idea of what the nature is - plus to hear from a professional about my progress. We are now waiting on her decision. From my understanding - The Rav might be in contact with her Rebbetzin and is probably talking to her to try to convince or encourage her to go to this meeting and maybe give it a second chance - but at this point now - all that is left to do is to wait and pray.

On the other hand - I am not sure if Elya or his wife would consider emailing her some information - the nature of humans is one of curiosity - she might read it only out of her curiosity! once again you never know!

I will look into the 12 step phone conference with Duvid Chaim - although personally i much prefer if it were more anonymous or online. But I will look into it and give it major consideration.

thank you all for your blessings and warm welcome!

All the best

Y

Hello mr webwatch i really feel your pain. On the main gye website there is a beautifull letter to wifes of lust addicts. Perhaps that is a better idea than to write her a letter detailing your progress in the last ten weeks. The women have no  prespective to understand our struggle. your wife cannot appreciate your struggle not to look. As far as she is concerned the urge itself is sick. The more you show her how hard you hard working tbe sicker you will sound to her.
Hatzlacha i hope everything works out

@Frumfiend the star thanks for your reply - can you please give me the link to that letter?

thanks in advance...

Dear yid,

I am going out on a limb here, as i do not know you. But since your situation seems desperate, I will offer a few thoughts that may be far off the mark. Please forgive me, but I wonder if you have anything to lose at this point, so be"H here goes:

I will not use your fake name - the username - because you do not need even more falsehood in your life. You - just like me - desperately need more honesty.

Dear whatever-your-name-really-is,

There are many, many frum families I have firsthand knowledge of (including my own) that were restored through recovery. The sex therapist might be a help, I do not know. I never went to one. Even though my addiction is all about the use of porn, obsessive fantasy and telephone sex, following women, meeting women, and other things of that nature, my problem is not a sexual one. Certainly I have sexual problems, but that is not the doorway I need to walk through to get well even in that. My issue is that I am an addict.

I am an addict and lust is just my drug of choice. And today I am sober one day at a time for years, along with many other people through a recovery fellowship that includes hundreds of frum people, too. Hashem helps me one day at a time to live sanely. My life is different in every way. It has to be. If you are like me, then your life will have to be different even if you divorce. That has nothing to do with you getting better, or not.

In fact, if your wife sees that you are trying to get better just in order to prevent the divorce, that will not mean much to her, I think. She needs to see that you surrender her, the kids, and everything - that your priority in life is your own sobriety and recovery, period. Then she might say to herself, "maybe it isn't the same old lies. Maybe he will change...let me give him more time and see."

You describe that the initial excuse for your separation was that you do not help around the house, etc. I do not doubt that this is actually part of the truth. This picture is typical of spouses who are lust addicts. We are love cripples. You were not joined with this woman in real life - because you do not have the keilim for a real relationship. as SA's White Book puts it: We went for the unreal, for the connection that had the 'magic' - because it bypassed true intimacy and real union. We were love-cripples.

This is not a time to feel sorry for yourself. For G-d's sake, go to an all-french meeting and sit there like a dummy and absorb the recovery around you. You need help, as I and all other addicts do. There will be nothing different with the 'next one' unless you get a ton of help to really, slowly, change the way you think and live.

So, you are a sincere, growing up, caring - and at the same time a liar, immature, self-centered, and hurting. Nu. So are all of us. The only question is - what concrete actions to take right now to get better?

Let your wife know about S-Anon but remember that your ball is not in her court - it is in yours. I hope and pray she gives your marriage a chance at recovery and that she joins you in it. Above and beyond any hard feelings - and there are surely many - you as a couple need help. You may need to begin as individuals. Hatzlocha.

Love,

Dov

@Dov thanks for your kind words and direct words.

I believe we do know each other - but because i work in the internet world - I know the nature of the internet - therefore I choose to use another name - trust me I am not scared to use my real name in a normal circumstance.

To tell you - I have been to meetings already whenever I go to NY - but from where i am from there are no meetings in English during the day when i am free and the only one in English is at night when i am in school finishing off my degree.

From my perspective divorce is not an option, my wife is very hurt and confused at the moment - and that is the only reason why i am working hard on trying to get to her and try to stall the divorce as much as i can.

On my personal level - I have no problem surrendering her and my kids for the sake of my rectification - but my wife currently wants me to be more involved with the kids. I am working very hard on myself and i am strongly aware of what it says in all those manuals and books - i have read them all...

But my wife is different - she is looking for solid answers - if i surrender her and the kids - she will think that i am running away and that I don't care about them. Whereas - if she sees some solid action on my part and if I succeed in proving to her that I am changed - then she will be interested in sitting down at the negotiation table.

I am not looking to get back with her tonight - and even when we get back - it will take time until we are fully together. But she must understand what i went through, and the changes i took - this is not the same as before - before i never was part of any program - now i am! in fact i have been sober for 10 weeks - and i have a professional to back it up! I couldn't keep sober for 10 minutes before the separation! this will surely move mountains in my wife's heart and mind.

So from a religious point of view - and my personal critique on this program - one must do all in his power to fight for his wife and children - no matter what it is. A man must nullify himself to his family's needs until it is very specifically "noigea" to his very existence that he get back his family.

All this is done through prayer and action.

First off, I doubt you know me. I do not go to meetings in NY as I do not live there. If you wish to check with me about that you can PM or email me. I would love to hear from you, in any case.

Please do not mistake me. I never intended to say that you should abandon your wife or family in any respect. What I am talking about is admitting your lack of control over what she decides, rather than trying to manipulate her yet again - this time using recovery.

When I talk about "surrendering them" that means working very hard to be a good father and husband to them - not trying to get them back or convince them of anything - just learning and practicing taking the actions of love as a real husband and father does.

It's all about learning how to love. And loving means intimacy. And intimacy does not mean sex. It means honesty and sharing. It took me about 1.5 years to start really learning how to do that with my wife and family once I started sobriety...I moved very slowly in the steps at first. But once my ego was finally busted enough for me to start that learning process, it has kept getting better and better. There have been downs in our relationship and I have screwed up with my relationship with the kids, but not like before - and now there is hope as a backdrop to everything that happens because I know that Hashem loves me and has a plan for me. I know He will help me be sober and do His Will. I know he will help me be as useful as possible to my family - whether that means to stay married or not.

Hope this is helpful to you, whoever you are. 

webbwatch wrote on 12 Nov 2010 16:16:


Here are a few things on our site that can really help give your wife some good perspective.

a) Have her read this letter, written by a wife of an addict (who was in touch with Elya and his wife).

b) Have her read this letter by someone on our forum, written to the wives of addicts.

c) Have her read also this thread on our forum, for some interesting perspective.

d) Have her read this story and this story for some good perspective.

e) Have her See here for some advice to women dealing with these problems (second half of page).

f) There are chapters in the SLAA books on partnerships which will help couples cope with this together in the most constructive way. Two suggested books are "Sex and Love Addiction (SLAA) Anonymous" and (2) "Cybersex Unhooked". Both are available here.

g) An article on Aish for wives of addicts by Rebbetzin Feige Twerski

@Dov I am sorry if I am mistaking you for another Dov I met in NY... he took me to one meeting. I am now starting to understand your intentions with your comments. I am glad to tell you - that that is precisely what I am doing and believe. I do not contact my wife at all (other than the kids and some important bills) as well as not trying to manipulate her in any way what-so-ever G-d Forbid. I do a lot of Hidbodedut (meditation) and pray to Hashem to take care of the situation.

Regarding intimacy - I have read and learned a very great amount about that! to which I can write in another thread what is intimacy - I will find the best place on this forum where to post it. and I will post the link back in this thread when i find it.. you'll really enjoy it!

Thank you Dov for your concern I really appreciate it! all the best!

@Guardureyes thank you for the links! do you have a suggestion and i can get these to my wife?

hi WW -

first understand that everyone has issues...including you... including your wife.

I'd like to step outside the GYE-box for a moment..

ok - you have an issue. Good for you for figuring it out before it kills you.
lets just assume for a moment that your wife might also have an issue.

Perhaps her issue is low self-esteem, and she NEEDS and WANTS to be married to an addictive personality (I am not saying this is the case - its just a what if situation)

and all of a sudden YOU start to change.. you begin to work on yourself.. work on becoming a better person..

what does this do to your wife?
(lets just say...) maybe it makes HER feel even MORE inadequate.. to the point that she cannot stand it...and needs to GET OUT of this relationship.

not an easy call.
not an easy situation ... but I dont know your situation.

I know living with an addict is not easy...the dynamics of the household get completely inverted, to the point one does not even know which way is up.

but since this sounds like a desperate situation, nearly at the buzzer, try this:

ask your wife if she has a few moments to speak (hopefully she will give you that much! )

present the following to her:

I know we have not been as close as we once were.

I regret that!

What can I do to make it better??


<>

DONT GET INTO AN ARGUEMENT WITH HER!!!

Try to repeat back what she said:

"If I heard you correctly, you said ..."


and then tell her you dont have all the answers but you are working oin getting them...and you miss her, and lok forward to growing with her.


thank her for taking the time to sit wth you - and let her know you hope you can spend more time together.

<< try to give your wife 10 minutes a day of your full attention. >>


and DAVEN !!!

cry your heart out to HaKodesh baruch Hu!!!


hope that helps

dov in israel
(dov.ii)