I have been suffering from a lust addiction for decades since I was a teenager.  I have my downs and ups.  I even looked into joining SA but my Yetzer Hara got the better of me convincing myself with various arguments that it wasn't for someone in my life situation.  About a year ago I finally came clean to an old Rebbi of mine who I knew would understand what I was going through.  Just coming out and speaking to someone who understood me was a tremendous relief.  B"H as a result, I don't think that I have had a major catastrophic fall since then.  But then of course, you know what happens.  I joined facebook for some "work" related project and lo and behold who do you think all of my "friends" were.  Still I think that my earlier meeting or my more cognizant awareness that Hashem was watching kept me from the severe falls of the past.  Then things weren't working out as planned and I felt the urge to fall overcome me again.  I thought I should pick up the phone and speak with my Rebbi.  But I was lazy.  Then a couple of weeks ago I stumbled across an outdated link to a post from what looks like the guardyoureyes forum with suggested online shuirim to help with the struggle.  I listened to Rabbi Reisman's shuir from Yirmiyahu.  It was very encouraging.  I went back telling myself that whoever posted this was on to something.  It was then I came across the real guardyoureyes site.  Reading the handbook felt as if a ton of bricks was lifted from me.  I felt like the handbook was written all for me.  Its like someone was there in my brain, knew exactly what I was going through.  I knew that B"H my life was in for a major change.  I am almost done my first read through of the book.  I joined all of the daily emails.  Reading them for a couple of days I know that this is the place for me.  Today I joined the 90 days wall and the forum.
Since reading the book, I have been struggling with the issue of coming clean to my wife.  B"H I have a wonderful marriage.  Yet, if there is one thing that we get into disagreements about it is, you guessed it: sex.  Intuitively my wife knows that I have a problem but I don't beleive that she has any idea of the extent.  My wife is familiar with 12-step programs since she does one herself (and in the past she has half-jokingly suggested I join SA).  So I think she would be understanding on that score.  But, I think she would be so disgusted with my conduct (as she should be) that she may not be able to understand.  When I had spoken with my Rebbi he said not to tell her all of the gory details.  On the other hand, without coming fully clean 1) I feel like there is an element of dishonesty in holding back a matter of which I have always felt guilty; 2) she will not appreciate the full extent of the problem, and I wonder whether she can be fully part of the solution.  I would welcome any insight on this issue.

Boruch Shechyani V'Kiyamonu L'zman HaZeh

Hi yurojew!

I would like to formally welcome you! Isn't life much better knowing there are Jews who understand your exact situation? I hope your stay here is like toilet paper...long and usefull (long so that when be'h you recover you will help others).

All the best!

-Yiddle

If your wife is familiar and participating in 12 step programs she should understand.  You can be prepared by reading up on all the
literature.  Once she realizes this is an addiction, a disease, she might look at it differently.  There are resources on the forum
for wives of addicts and phone numbers for her to call when she needs to talk with someone.

You don't need to go into a lot of detail about what, how, when, with, you've been doing. Preface it with you're getting help
and just like in 12 step groups the first step is honesty, you're getting honest because you want to change your relationship.

Once you work the program you'll realize that sex is indeed optional.  We sex and love addicts manipulate our wives to
have sex whether they want to or not, whether we want to or we're just giving in to lust.  Wives pick up quickly when
we're just doing it for lust.  Once you can accept "NO" without getting resentful at your wife and begin to look at her
as a human being instead of a human "doing" your intimate life will improve. 

They say the best aphrodisiac is washing the dishes WITHOUT BEING ASKED or help around the house WITHOUT BEING
ASKED or spending time or getting flowers WITHOUT ANY ULTERIOR MOTIVES.  When your wife can relax and realize
you love her for HER and not because she's an OBJECT C'V you'll see great improvement in your marriage & in
the bedroom.

Elya

Thanks Elya.  You know I joined and immediately got the feeling that I did a good thing, but that I'm really not that bad off and maybe I don't need to do this or that part of the program.  Reading your post opened my eyes to the fallacy of that thinking.  I am quite far from "realiz[ing] that sex is indeed optional" and it is extermely hard for me to "accept 'NO' without getting resentful at your wife."  I often do the "dishes WITHOUT BEING ASKED or help around the house WITHOUT BEING ASKED."  My problem however is that it does not work as an aphrodisiac but as a stimulator since I feel a sense of entitlement.  What I need to get to is the doing "WITHOUT ANY ULTERIOR MOTIVES."  While my corrupt thought process tells me it is not possible.  The fact that you write it with such conviction makes me realize that I am off base.  I can only daven to Hashem that He show me how to get there.

Welcome to the club. Great to have you with us! Somehow yiddle always manages to post first. rrrr...:)The train of the next stage in your life is leaving the station. There is so much I learned from guys posting on my thread I wish I could offer you the same. Regardless the light at the end of the tunnel should be visible any moment now. 

ur-a-jew wrote on 08 Jun 2010 18:30:


Wow I'm happy for you...
You sound like you had an awakening...

Make sure to grab it and turn it into something concrete (i.e. action) but it sounds like you already are....

Re. How much to share with your wife:
Both sides of the argument have merit...
It probably depends on your wife and the nature of your relationship and how it is presented...

I for one would go for the full truth, but I'd invest tons of energy into preparing how to present it....

A possible idea is to share some and see how it is received and then decide on whether to share the rest...

P.s. If I remember correctly Dov has helped quiet a few people with involving their wives... Contact him

I resented my wife for over 20 years when she refused.  It was not until I got into recovery
and began working the steps that I realized I had been manipulating her.  Well she told me
so.  Resentments are what triggers us the most, especially involving sex with your wife.
Sure - you're entitled to act out because even your wife is refusing you.  What could be
more hurtful than that. 

When you realize that women sense your honesty and when you're asking her ONLY
because you're LUSTING they pick up on it and say no.  At least if their honest and
healthy.    You would do yourself a favor by telling her the truth and going to meetings.
Because if you say, "I really want to stop resenting you when you say no and I need
your help to do that."  For a while you'll have to abstain and realize that when she is
nice or affectionate toward you that DOES NOT mean she wants to be intimate.  It
means she wants affection back in the form of holding.

This is what I mean by optional.  It's not easy.  But if you want to save your
great marriage you'll have to eventually get honest with your wife and yourself.
She will respect and begin to trust you once she sees you're making an effort
to get better. 

Here's your opening line:

"Remember that time you were kidding with me about going to an SA meeting?
Well, I think I'm ready to go now.  I don't want to feel like I'm resenting you
and I need help figuring out how to do that."

Good Luck,

Elya

Elya wrote on 15 Jun 2010 03:08:


Well with what I believe was alot of hasghacha pratis and siyata d'shmaya this is the way it actually went:

A few days earlier I had joined up with a partner and a buddy.  Both were having a difficult time (one much harder than the other) and I spend a good deal of my Friday trying to give them chizuk, but as to one of them I wasn't really sure how succesful I actually was.  Their predicament was certainly on my mind Friday night and it is fair to say that going coming and in shul my mind was occupied by their predicament.  At the same time I had earlier in the day read Steve's porch story that was ultimately circulated in this past Sunday's chizuk emails.  So I come out of shul Friday night and I remembered Steve's story.  I see a woman up the block and I don't know whether I was attracted or not but remembering the story and knowing that Friday night's can sometimes be tense in the bedroom I started to think about my wife's maalos.  But I continue walking and my mind wanders back to my partner's situation.  As I'm turning the corner to my house lo and behold who is sitting on the porch waiting for me, my wife.  Mind you my wife is almost never waiting on the porch when I come home from shul on Friday night.  Steve and his story immediately pop back into my mind and I give her a great big smile.  But my wife immediately asks what I was so deep in thought about.  I tell her that I was thinking about her.  But she says no before you turned the corner you were so deep in thought.  I am not a good poker player.  I told her that I was thinking about someone I had met.  She pushes a little more, a client? I said no, I actually don't know who he is.  This of course made her more curious.  I told her that if she wanted an answer we needed to go for a walk, at which point I told her, well you remember you've always said I should join SA, well I found a frum website that is based on it and I have joined and I got a partner and he is going through some tough times.  So I spilled the beans.  What I still could not come to tell her however was my real issue, i.e.,  the trash that I have seen over the course of my life.  In fact, I didn't even tell her the name of the site because it is too associated with my problem.  Later on I asked her not to press me about what it was all about and I would open up eventually.  On Sunday we were out and Steve's porch story was in the chizuk email and I read it to her and told her that this was the reason I was so happy when I had seen her on the porch.  So that is were I am holding now on that score. 
This week I started reading the white book and I see that they advise not to tell a spouse until you are firmly on your path.  My own feeling is to try and get at least 90 days before I reveal anything more.

wow...
keep it up

U kill me!!

I am so proud of you!!

I must admit that I did not know your whole story, perhaps I still don't, but much more after re-reading your posts. What you have started to do takes such bravery I am gobsmacked. I am privileged to 'know' such a special jew. I can only imagine how hard your heart was beating when you started speaking to your wife. I pray that when you eventually do open up to her, that it goes well for you and that she takes it well and that she agrees to be a helpful partner  in your recovery.

On a more practical level, I would tend to agree that it makes a lot of good sense to wait until you hit 90 days before going into more detail with her.

I have such a big smile on my face right now. You have given me koiach and inspiration that will stay with me for a long, long time.

If you have been able to do this thing, which must have been so scary and tremendously difficult, I have no doubt that you can overcome anything the Y"H has to throw at you.

From the bottom of my heart, I admire you,

Haleivi

Elya wrote on 09 Jun 2010 00:26:


my wife would be instantly suspicious.....

Haleivi76 wrote on 16 Jun 2010 09:31:

Forgive me for being a party pooper, but I think there's room for different views on this.

Every marriage is different, PERIOD. I won't pretend to know yours. But for me, if I tried to do something that requires this amount of focus, grit, humor, mood swings, suspicious se*ual symptoms, etc... SHE WOULD KNOW THAT SOMETHING IS UP. Trying to keep it from her would be silly. I'm not that good an actor, and she's too good a reader.

So in my case, I'd have to show some of my hand. Maybe not all, as folks here are saying, but some. (Maybe you know an old, bad joke about "the cat fell off the roof"...?)

I've certainly kept my wife posted on everything (yeah, 99% of EVERYthing) that's been happening with me. That way, at least she knows "it's not her."

Anyhow, just wanted to add that vote, just in case.

Briut wrote on 16 Jun 2010 18:24:


Thanks...
I think the rule is that there is no definite rule!

Okay.  So I think I now have to confront the monster in the closet. 
Last night when I told my wife that I wanted to go on a phone meeting she intimated to me that she was not to happy with this whole program thing.  Truth is I thinks she's been unhappy about this for the past two weeks she just hasn't said it explicitly.  Of course if I explain to her that I don't need it simply for the lust/bedroom issue (which she knows all to well) but for my porn addiction (of which she is clueless) she may be more understanding, but she also will, I fear, pass out from my admission. 
Truth be told I have another fear.  I'll tell her and then I'll have to kiss sex goodbye until she recovers.  And who knows when and if, that will happen.  It's a problem.  But a problem that I need to confront (but which I don't really know how).
In the end there is also a gaavah element.  It's one thing to admit to a great group of guys who are undergoing the same struggles you are.  Or, even to admit to another man who can at least relate to the problem.  But my wife just doesn't understand the addiction in the first place (although she does at least understand addictions).  To tell her that her husband that she looks up to is down in the gutter ain't easy.
Hashem please help me.

Ur-a-jew,

Congrats on taking steps towards a more intense recovery process.  I really identify with a lot of the stuff you wrote although I am in a bit of a different situation as my wife discovered my on porn and was really happy when I told her I was joining SA.  I also relate to the Gaavah issue.  The first three months in SA I walked around all day feeling like everyone was looking at the word "Sexaholic" tattooed on my forehead.  I also relate to the no sex fear which as I've mentioned on another post I am currently living.

All that being said....

I would have to wonder if this is a monster in the closet that needs to be confronted.  You didn't get your wife's permission to look at porn, right?  So why do you need it to work a program at stopping it?  It would seem to me you have no obligation and I would even say it would not be a good idea to discuss these things with her till you are well into recovery.  Just like you don't like to think of yourself as an addict she doesn't want to think of you like that either.  I've talked to guys who have practically told their wives they had affairs and went to prostitutes and their wives just stuck their heads in the ground because they can't deal with it.

If anything at all has to be said I would try explaining that I feel this is something I need to do for my own personal growth and that I love you and think this will make me a better husband.  Most wives usually won't disagree with something that will help their husbands love them more.

Hatzlacha and let us know how it goes