Hi Tomim!
I read what Guard posted, and some of your posts. I guess you are trying to help in some way. Guard has a point, though, and I'm curious for your answer to him.
About ten years ago, I bought a book called "How AA Failed Me", or something like that. I still have it somewhere. Anyway, as I read the many problems that the author had with AA, I couldn't help but get the feeling that he (or she?) had seen AA very differently from how I had seen it. Each chapter was another criticism of AA and was basically a mixture of AA-bashing and very nice facts and statistics. It was obviously a fun read. At that time, being in recovery for only about two or three years, I felt that if I only had a chance to talk with the author, I'd convince him (or her) of the error of his (or her) ways.
Boy, was I wrong - and
full of myself.
Of course, I still am (both) sometimes, but over
time and with Hashem's help, I've come to take myself and what I think and what others think about what I think, a little less seriously. Whew! So maybe I won't feel that way about your exposition of RR and we can actually have some pleasant back and forth! W/o a little humility things get rotten real fast for me....
As best as I can understand it, your quotes about AA refgerring to itself as the only way out of alcoholism are taken out of context. This is how I have seen these ideas used in AA recovery, and you tell me if it's what you mean, please (
then we can discuss whether AA is right, or not):
If I am an alcoholic and have tried many things and all I have tried has failed (as many AAs/SAs/NAs
have by the time they come to 12 steps), I cannot expect toget better if I make a half-effort in following the program of recovery outlined in AA. The only attitude that has a chance of success is if Ihang onto it for dear life. As if I have no other way and will die without it.
In fact, I can testify that the 12 steps, as they are inconvenient for a sick person, will seem like they are unnecessary and quite stupid, many many times. Doing things
differently than what comes naturally to us is not what we want. We'd (and I guess I may be speaking for most addicts) prefer to keep doing and thinking as we have always been doing and thinking, while honestly expecting different results. Hey. We
are addicts, after all. That's what we
do. It's how we
got here.
When AA refers to AA as absolutely necessary, it is plain to me that they are just saying what they found
for themselves,
and they know it.
For me, the
proof that they know it, is the basic AA tradition (I forget which it is - but actually spending two hours reading the 12 traditions in the back of AA's "12 Steps and 12 Traditions" may shed a great deal of light on AA traditions and thinking, which is what you are talking about.) that AA does not engage in
promotion, only in
attraction.
In this way AA differs from many brands of christianity (and perhaps RR, BTW), that feel they must go out and convince
all "non-believers" of "the truth" and try to bring them into the fold to "save them". Through most of our history, most of yiddishkeit did not do this, and generally is still not prosyletizing. (did I spell that right? who really cares?)
The reason may be different, but it's a similar attitude. We say tothe world: "613 mitzvos works just fine for us (except, of course, if we are looking at porn, masturbating, doing phone porn and other wierd stuff and hiding it behind our double life...oops!
![](https://guardyoureyes.com/components/com_kunena/template/default/images/emoticons/new/wink.png)
). It may
not work for you - your tachlis may be toremain a goy and serve Hashem that way - you need not do as we do,
unless you are really interested, for your own good. Then we share and teach.
The AA that I know works that way. The message is optional to outsiders - folks whohave not made up their minds that they may need to try AA. But once you have
admitted that you are powerless over alcohol, that your life
is unmanageable by you - then what do you expect? AA to say, "OK. Try these nice, educational things out a little bit. You can go halfway and just be
partially honest and see if you are still comfortable, OK? We'd hate to chase you away with inconvenience. If you
like being helped to see the naked truth about yourself, and you
enjoy being humble, and you
relish living like G-d is really in charge of what happens in your life and the world, then stay with us! If you decide at any time to just be honest when it suits you - don't worry! It's great!"
AA (like any recovery fellowship) is made up of people who are sometimes stupid, sometimes selfish, sometimes ignorant, and often a bit confused, but they know what they need to do to get better, because they have found out that the only thing that actually works for them is holding onto honesty like your life depends on it. Do you expect anything different? They are not telling this to
you, they are telling it to
themselves. That's the difference for me.
If what I wrote is not clear, if it sounds contentious, or if you think I'm just blind to some basic facts, nu. Please feel free to let me know. I tried my best to share with you how I have experienced it.
I am not an AA groupie.
It's
not my religion,
yiddishkeit is.
I believe fully in what is written right in the "Solution" of the SA white book: "We know our solution is not for everybody, but for us it works," and in what it says in the last chapter of AA: "This book is meant to be suggestive only. We know only a little."
Do you reconsider what you wrote?
If you don't, go easy on me! I may not like being reminded that "I lost the debate"! ;D
Ha! Whatever - have a great Shabbos, Tomim!