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TOPIC: Likutei battleworn 9295 Views

Re: Likutei battleworn 24 Aug 2009 14:03 #13888

  • battleworn
[From R' Tzvi Meir]

There are three areas of Tahara that we need to work on. 1) guarding the mouth 2) guarding the eyes and 3) guarding the bris. The Chida says that this is hinted to in the posuk. Odom le'amal yulad. Amal stands for Ayin Ma'or Lashon. It says in seforim Hakidoshim that the main effort needs to be concentrated on what is more in our hands IE: the eyes and mouth and then Hashem will take care of the rest.

Chazal say "Lo nechtam gzar dinam elah al yidei miraglim" Both the word nechtam and miraglim are both hinting at midas hayisod which is called chosem and also raglayim (as in raglicha lo batzekoh) And Chazal are telling us that all that, was caused by the L"H of the meraglim. We learn from here that watching our mouth is a great key to taharah.

But the y"h tries to convince us to invest our main effort on what is not in our hands {so that we'll end up getting nowhere and being full of frustration}

The "mittele Rebbe" of Chabad explains the posuk "Evilim miderch pishom umei'ovonoseihem yisanu" that the way they fell and became evilim was because of "Derech Pishom" -they weren't careful with the causes [They didn't watch their eyes and mouth] But umei'ovonoseihem yisanu -instead of doing teshuva on ,and rectifying, the causes; they foolishly concentrate on the sins themselves.

This is a very very important yesod for anyone that wants to succeed in any area. Always conentrate on what's in your hands "Kol mah she'yeish bikochachoa asei..."  

Last Edit: 24 Aug 2009 15:42 by Helpmepeace.

Re: Likutei battleworn 24 Aug 2009 14:11 #13889

  • battleworn
Charata means regret. When you regret that something happened it just means that you didn't want it to haapen. It does not mean that it's your fault. Vidui means admitting(recognizing) that it was bad and discussing it all with Hashem.

We find in a number of places that saying "there was nothing wrong with what I did" is a big aveiroh. [obviously it totaly prevents a person from doing teshuva.] But saying I was powerless is totaly something else. Blame is not part of teshuva!
Last Edit: by redbaron.

Re: Likutei battleworn 24 Aug 2009 14:41 #13898

  • bardichev
GeVaLdIgGgGgGgGgG!!!!!!
Last Edit: by Wantingtowant.

Re: Likutei battleworn 24 Aug 2009 18:19 #13941

  • Efshar Letaken
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I will need a lot more time in order to go through all theses great Lekutim of yours.

Solid Stuff!

E.L.
Last Edit: by failing.

Re: Likutei battleworn 24 Aug 2009 20:10 #13962

  • yechidah
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Battleworn

your are not worn at all.this is amazing stuff and there is alot to absorb.

On reply # 10 about R' Miller saying you have to guard you thoughts to guard your eyes

This is a very vital concept that goes much much deeper than most people think.

Very often the inabililty to watch thier eyes does not come from the immorality that is all around us on the streets  or on the internet

It comes from the inner turmoil within,often not related directly to immorality

It starts from a 14 year old boy who thinks he is a piece of garbage because his Rebbe told him that his head is full of marbles,not brains.

10 times out of 10,if he is not convinced that this is not the truth,he will end up watching pornography and sometimes worse.

This boy was dead and buried way before the internet got to him.

The internet murdered a dead boy,who was dead and buried since the day he believed that he had no brains in his head.

Just marbles.
Last Edit: 24 Aug 2009 20:15 by 2Bfree.

Re: Likutei battleworn 24 Aug 2009 20:33 #13970

  • bardichev
HOLIEST OF HOLY BROTHERS

I MIGHT JUMP RIGHT INTO THE MIX HERE AND WRINKLE MY VERY STARCHED SHIRT

WHO AM I TO ARGUE WITH REB AVIDOR MILLER THE MAN WAS HUGE!!!

I think kvodo bimkomo munach even if i add my humble opinion.

I FEEL IT IS TALK LIKE THIS THAT GOT ME AND MANY OTHERS IN TROUBLE

let me re-iterate I am not arguing with a giant like Rav Miller whoo was a path of light

in a ver very dark generation ( yes the 60's was one big shmutz ask you parents)

but.. but.. TO SAY POINTLESS "POINTLESS" IS A VERY POWERFUL WORD (EVEN FOR A NYer)


1)R' Avigdor Miller zt'l said that shmiras einayim is pointless, if you are not also guarding your thoughts.


THIS KIND OF TALK WAS MERACHEK MORE TEENAGERS THEN IT WAS MEKAREV

EVEN IF IT IS TRUE

SHEMIRAS HAMACHSHAVA IS THE HARDEST HARDEST THING

SO LIKE YECHIDA "TRIED TO SAY" ( I AM MORE BLUNT, SORRY)

WHEN RABBEIM AND TEACHERS FLY OFF THE HANDLE SPEWING FIRE AND BRIMSTONE THAT WHAT SIN DOES AND WHERE IT PUTS A PERSON

THIS VERY OFTEN COMES FROM THE Y'H HIMSELF

aagin I am not arguing with Gedolei Oilam

the Y'H GETS A PERSON TO SIN AND SAY AHA I CAUGHT YOU FANTASIZING AHA YOU LITTTLE MENUVAL
YOU WILL NEVER LEAVE GEHHENNOM

YOU MIGHT AS WELL LUST WITH YOUR EYES ENJOY THIS WORLD

BECAUSE ALL OF GEHENNOM IS WAITING FOR YOU

RABBOISAI!!! WE NEED TO BE COOL CALM AND COLLECTED AS I HAVE QUOTED FROM THE NESIVOS SHALOM MANY TIMES

THE Y"H WANTS THE ATZVUSS THAT COMES AFTER THE CHET AND IF HE CAN GET YOU BI-ATZVUSS WITHOUT CHET "HE DON'T CARE"
ALL HE NEEDS IS THE ATZVUSS AND YOU ARE IN HIS LIONS DEN

THE ME-OR VISHAMESH SAYS CLEARLY IN THIS WEEKS PARSHA

THE Y"H ACTYUALLY ALLOWS YOU TO DO TESHUVA FROM YIRAH AND ATZVUSS
HE LOVES IT BECAUSE YOU ARE STILL IN HIS TRAP!!!

WE NEED TO TALK TO OUR YOUTH (AS RAV MILLER ZATZA"L DID IN HIS DOR -HE AND THE LUBAVITCHER REBBE AND THE BAIS YISROEL OF GER ) WORDS THAT THEY CAN BE ELEVATED FROM!!!!!!

NOT MORE SCARY FIRE OF GEHENNOM TALK ENOUGH!!!!!!


bardichev

Last Edit: 24 Aug 2009 20:37 by godsgirl.

Re: Likutei battleworn 25 Aug 2009 02:05 #13992

  • yechidah
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I was seriously considering deleting what I posted here before, but I am keeping it here,unless R' Guard feels that this subject not be brought up here on this forum.

At this point in time this topic upsets me to the point that I cannot talk about it in a way that will be constructive.I have seen what I described,and what bardichev described clearer using the words "fire & brimestone".it was a terrible thing to experience and to see.I am not condoning loshan horah(which I fear discussion about this may lead to it) but I do understand why many bear great resentment,even hatred toward some of the rabbeim who were cruel to them in the most vicious way.And to make believe that this did not happen or did not exist is the worst thing that you can do to someone.you are telling someone who was in FACT(not alleged or imagined or a mere bad mood mistake which everyone is entitled to)-such as when 25 classmates saw the same thing,day in and day out,month after month,that you see clear as day how a young boy was verbally abused,and you tell him he is nuts,or you deserved it,so if your rebbe told you that you have a stuffed up head or that nothing will come of you-the boy actually believes it -this can cause permanent damage-and it has.

I think there would be only one constructive purpose to bring up this topic.that if a young man comes in here and had been a victim of such a crime,that he should know that it was indeed a crime that was no fault of his own.and if you validate this,then you help him get past it.and if he is here suffering from addictions or depression or anxiety or anything else,he has to learn first from us here that what he was told is baloney and he has to believe in himself,the goodness in him that is unique to him.only then can he get passed what had destroyed him and our job here is help build this young man by telling him the truth about himself-that he is good, was always good,and no matter what happened,he is entitled to a happy and healthy life and we are obligated to do our best to help him have one.

Like I said,for now,I cannot say anything else about this.Any more of this discussion, and my words will deteriorate into something I do not want to be .I have to wait before I talk of this again.

And my apologies to battleworn for going off the main thing here, which is the beautiful insights that he has presented here.

they are precious gems.  

I really need to take time and review carefully everything battleworn wrote here.

especially battleworn's words "blame is not part of teshuva"      
Last Edit: 25 Aug 2009 02:11 by SS.

Re: Likutei battleworn 25 Aug 2009 03:51 #13998

  • kutan
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yechida wrote on 25 Aug 2009 02:05:


At this point in time this topic upsets me to the point that I cannot talk about it in a way that will be constructive.I have seen what I described,and what bardichev described clearer using the words "fire & brimestone".it was a terrible thing to experience and to see.I am not condoning loshan horah(which I fear discussion about this may lead to it) but I do understand why many bear great resentment,even hatred toward some of the rabbeim who were cruel to them in the most vicious way.And to make believe that this did not happen or did not exist is the worst thing that you can do to someone.you are telling someone who was in FACT(not alleged or imagined or a mere bad mood mistake which everyone is entitled to)-such as when 25 classmates saw the same thing,day in and day out,month after month,that you see clear as day how a young boy was verbally abused,and you tell him he is nuts,or you deserved it,so if your rebbe told you that you have a stuffed up head or that nothing will come of you-the boy actually believes it -this can cause permanent damage-and it has.

I think there would be only one constructive purpose to bring up this topic.that if a young man comes in here and had been a victim of such a crime,that he should know that it was indeed a crime that was no fault of his own.and if you validate this,then you help him get past it.and if he is here suffering from addictions or depression or anxiety or anything else,he has to learn first from us here that what he was told is baloney and he has to believe in himself,the goodness in him that is unique to him.only then can he get passed what had destroyed him and our job here is help build this young man by telling him the truth about himself-that he is good, was always good,and no matter what happened,he is entitled to a happy and healthy life and we are obligated to do our best to help him have one.


   


Sorry to keep this sensitive topic alive, but it is important to deal with, since it is unlikely that going through 12+ rabbeim in Yeshiva are they all going to be angels.
Especially important for parents, since they have to go through (12+ rabbeim / morahs) x (the amount of children that they have)... you do the math.

So I'd like to quote R' Brezak who insists that you must tell the child he is right and the rebbe is wrong.

How to do this correctly is not for here... you can hear it from him on his weekly parenting lecture recorded on the phone, where he talks about this from time to time. But the main thing is that if the kid is being verbally abused, he needs to know that his parents are on his side.

kutan

Rashi, Breishis (10:25)
Last Edit: by Jfifer1234.

Re: Likutei battleworn 25 Aug 2009 04:28 #14001

  • bardichev
ok I need to backtrack here a bit
I am adressing the Idea that my good friend battleworn brought from a ver reliable source
and I said it does more harm than good
my good friend yechida is challenging the statement and saying that the addiction stems from low self esteem that was killed my rabbeim in his past

both satements are a sad sad
reality

I will ONLY explain what I said
I feel that by teaching boys about
how to deal with shmiras einayim and shmiras habris and all the rebbe says is if you can't control your thoughts forget about your eyes .says bardichev that rebbe is doing more harm than good
on the womens side of this discussion tznius is handed out as rules and safety pins
without any real uplifting or encouragement I am sorry to say ... I have nothing to say ... I can not be mekatreg it is not the bardichever way
but..but.. maybe morah right and rebbetzin strictasaruler should try love warmth and encouragement so tznius will stay psat 12th grade
I know this is classy forum and we need to keep Torah and Mechancim on a pedestal I only invoke these ideas to let people know that maybe maybe you weren't as bad as your rosh yesgiva said you were.
now pick yourself up forget about your past ( I know its hard) and focus on the posostive your growth your shteiging
at GUE you get marked and rewarded for growth and shtieging in real time.also we see ourselves here for what we really want to be!! AS THE BEST RABBEIM AND TEACHERS DO THEY SEE THE POTENTIAL
bardichev
boy is my shirt wrinkeled
Last Edit: by hpjm.

Re: Likutei battleworn 25 Aug 2009 09:51 #14010

  • battleworn
Raboisai,

I agree with everything that you said, but I just want to point out that blaming gets us nowhere. Hashem made this world in such a way that a person is raised by imperfect parents and imperfect teachers.

(I'm not the kind of guy that doesn't know about this stuff. Just for a small ex. I had a Rebee that was really intolerant of my dreamy personality and he constantly embarrassed me for it. B"H my parents had the seichal to do something about it and they had me swiched to the parallel class. And with my children I have had some very bad experiences also -to say the least. B'kitzur I know the sugya only to well)

Of course I fully agree that someone that was victimised, definitely needs and deserves understanding and sympathy. And of course if something productive can be done to improve the situation, it must be done. But at the same time lets remember that whatever happened in the past was for the good; Hashem doesn't make mistakes.

Ligabei shmiras einayim, I don't think that R' Miller said it in a negative way at all (I don't remember his exact words). The choice of words was mine, in response to someone that found that trying to watch his eyes was doing him more bad than good (the problem was discussed already by R' Chaim Voloshiner). I should have said "trying to guard your thoughts" so I'm correcting it now. Also I should not have used the word "pointless" at all.

I thought about this more and I realized that Bardichev is mamish talking about me. I actualy went around for a long time thinking that shmiras einayim is not shayach to me. I don't think it was because anything that I was told. I just didn't see how the idea of shmira could possibly apply to me, I didn't think there was anything to guard.

I think the bottom line is that it is definitely very important to know that every time you don't look has tremendous value by itself. But to break free, the effort has to be on shmiras hamachshava just as much as shmiras einayim.

Thank you all very much for your feedback!
Last Edit: 25 Aug 2009 11:44 by mikej.

Re: Likutei battleworn 25 Aug 2009 11:48 #14012

  • bardichev
YESSSSS EVERYONE BACK TO YOUR SHTENDERS .
LETS KEEP ON LEARNING!

BW IS 100 percent right

it is a chisaron in bitachon to blame blame blame

I will BE"H keep on giving my
upbeat spin to these HEAVY topics

b
Last Edit: by edgwareboy .

Re: Likutei battleworn 29 Dec 2009 19:29 #39648

  • bardichev
hey i had a real big mouth back in the day

and all caps what a blowheart uchhhh!!
Last Edit: by .

Re: Likutei battleworn 30 Dec 2009 11:17 #39885

  • Kollel Guy
When someone opens a store in your town, and your store starts losing business, did his store make you lose money?
Anyone who knows anything about betachon will tell you NO!! "Your earnings are decided on R"H, and the same way you can't change it, neither can anybody else".
People tend to think that this is only true for monetary matters, and stubbing your toe, and how bad you realize your hat looks now that you wore it and can no longer return it, and the like.
This could not be any further from the truth.
It is even MORE true about ruchnius.
Do you really think that if your not destined to deal with a certain nesayon, that any - friend, family member, Rebbe or whoever else has the power to give you that nesayon? Can their actions words or attitudes towards you change your mission for H-shem or it's difficulty?
This is the ikkar reason for why blame is pointless.
Not because it doesn't help. That's also true. The main reason is because by blaming it shows you don't recognize that H-shem actually WANTS you to be dealing with your situation, and deep down you believe that your nesayon is some kind of fluke that really shouldn't be there. If you truly believed that this experience in your life is what H-shem wanted you to be exposed to, you wouldn't feel any more resentment for what they "did" to you, than you would for any other shortcoming in their shmiras Torah U'Mitzvos.
Last Edit: by .

Re: likutei 30 Dec 2009 12:48 #39916

  • loi-misyaeish
Well put, KG!
Last Edit: by .

Re: Likutei battleworn 30 Dec 2009 20:13 #40193

  • battleworn
Ditto!
Last Edit: by .
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