See Reb Tzadok in Tzidkas Hatzadik # 121

R' Tzadok explains that the Torah does not expressly state the prohibition of Motzi zera levatala but leaves us to deduce from Mitvos B'nei Noach.

He then goes on to state that we must know that shmiras habris is really just a form of Derech Eretz: (i) should be self-evident that it is not correct and (ii) even animals refrain from M'Z'L.

I think this is really what Dov always talks about. Addiction to porn, M'Z'L is not a Jewish/religious problem but comes before that: Dereck Eretz Kadma L'Torah!!

Can you clarify how it's derech eretz? I don't see how it's self evident outside of marriage.

Not arguing, just looking for clarification.

Thanks!

I was only quoting R' Tzadok who states that it is Derech Eretz and self evident. R' Tzadok suggests that this is clear from the fact that even animals don't do it.

Without second guessing his reasoning, I think anyone who is addicted to the act of MZL in any way, does not need any Torah source for knowing that it is wrong, it just clearly messes up ones life.

Perhaps one could suggest that the very selfishness of the act (MZL is often described as having sex with oneself) lies at the root of the problem (but this requires further thought)...

I still don't understand, but that's ok.

Thanks!

Just some thought!!

Hashem has created us [Yidden] to fulfill his Rotzon/will and bring him a Nachas Ruach, he has not created the man and his desires so that we should enjoy the Olam Hazeh and all its perks, but rather for the sake of coming closer to him and fulfilling his will, so all the distractions from Hashem (like lust and other bad traits) were also created for that one purpose that the human should rise through working on those desires.

What R' Tzodok means is, that ones Zerah was put in place for the sole purpose of the reproduction of the human [and fulfilling the Mitzveh of Onah pleasuring your wife] other than that it would be like throwing fresh food in the trash bin and even more [wasting of children, and producing demons]so the Derech Eretz would demand to withdraw of this behavior.

again just a thought!

Isn't derech eretz between people?

skeptical wrote:


not necessarily, it means NORMAL BEHAVIOR in general, or could also mean "the way of the world" which in turn could be the same