I went to the ohr sameach yeshiva in Israel for a few weaks. I learnt that everyone has there level of free-will, someone who is brought up in a completly secular inviroment and has never heard of Shabbat will not be juged for shabbat, if he died without knowing any better. I learnt that on must grow spiritulaly in steps otherwise one will not get anyware. I have been keeping friday night and next week pease G-d i am going to try keep shabbat day to.

I think Hashem is like a loving father who has a lot of compassion.
Then I saw the video "the seal of truth" the person died completly secular he never knew about mitzvot, yet he was publicly shamed for masturbation and Shabbat! If I die now. G-d forbid, will I be publicly shamed for not yet keeping shabbat fully? The video has really effected my growth, I now feel the urge to masturbate more then I evey have in my life.
I would be grateful if someone can clear up my confusion

Hey BT,

Welcome aboard. We are so happy you could join us on our journey to get closer to God. That's what this really is. We are all trying to get to God. I can't say that I am equipped to answer your question, but I am so glad you shared your story with us. Isn't it a great feeling getting your story out there in a Torah permitted way! Keep posting and good luck on your road, or should I say our road.

-Yiddle

baalteshuva wrote on 31 Dec 2009 00:43:


I know for a fact that some people who watch that video are inspired to stay "clean" for a week or two, while it causes others to want to masturbate more than before, due to the pressure and anxiety it causes. So, both reactions to that video are normal. 

Regarding what we will be judged for, I can't say. That's up to G-d. My advice is to grow slowly at your own pace, do the best you can, and don't worry about the rest of it.

Well said, Momo. Our job, what GOD wants from us, is for us to do our best. That can include not getting to nervous, if that will hurt us.

Im sorry to hear about you going through a hard time...
I thought its something very Interesting. If you feel like masturbating its very hard to stop yourself
so if you go ahead you have a pleasure lasting les then a min. and feel bad for a long while after...
but if you overcome it you feel bad for a few min and then REALLy good the rest of the day..but thats me personal... like when i get into bed at night and i have somehow with G' help overcome a test like that it makes me just smile and fall asleep all calm !  Is the "the seal of truth" online avalible ?

thanks and keep strong

www.guardureyes.com/GUE/Tips/SealofTruth.asp

Reb Guard,

IMHO, I think this link should come with a warning. I heard from Rav S that some people after watching this video felt so much anxiety that they masturbated like crazy after watching it (as I wrote in my last post here).

While it might inspire some, it could damage the morale of others.

My 2 cents.

Reactions to watching this video interest me, so I started a poll on the matter. To vote, go here: rehab-my-site.com/guardureyes/forum/index.php?topic=1458.msg40387#msg40387

This has lots to do with  the positive reinforcement vs negative reinforcement issue.  For whatever reason our generation does better with positive reinforcement.  In the sefer v'heir eninu he points this out and the beginning of sefer is all based on positive reinforcement. I heard that Rav Wolbe took shaar gemul off the shelf because it was getting bachurim depressed. 

There is a famous maaseh (and I know someone who witnessed this) that in the 60's it was officially confirmed that smoking was dangerous. (see michtav eliyahu vol I, page 111 where he recognized very clearly the dangers of smoking and this is what encouraged him to eventually break free).  A lecturer gets up and explains the scientific explanation of the dangers of smoking and the advers impact it will have on the smoker's life.  After the lecture he goes outside for a smoke.  Point should be understood on its own.

However, I need to point out that for some understanding the negative impact can encourage him to do better.  But he should use that as his motivator in the background not his day to day avodah.  Again this is similar to smoking.  For some, unless they are convinced that smoking is dangerous and realize that smoking will kill them and come to back to haunt them later in life, they aren't ready to stop.  And even if they believe it, they need to remind themselves every once in a while, but to actually work on stopping the behavior they will need other methods.

As an aside, someone who actually masturbates more because of the video needs to really double check himself if he is being honest with himself or if he just trying to rebel and make excuses.   

thanks for the support. My problem is how can one do ones best and forget the rest, if one knows that he is going to be tortured when he dies?
In Israel we leant that Rav Dessler and Rav Wolpe (I think thats his name) said that one is only responsable for ones "point" of free will at ones personal level, this makes sense to me, I feel guilty if i slip up in my current range of choices, for things that I'm not yet holding at I am not yet responsable for, when I mature, then i will be responsable for more evalated things.
The video seems to say that If you do sins, even if you have never heard that they are wrong, you will be punished and humiliated.
After I watched the video I read a few things on other sites, and for a bit a felt G-d forbid that I should give everything up!
I know this can't be true. this Shabbat I'm keeping the whole thing, what motivates me is love, I realise that Hashem has more love and Compassion for me than I have on myself. I thank Hashem for everything and realise that Hashem does not expect me to simply just keep the entire Torah, it is i process. I think this is very important when it come to sexual things, we should be motivate by Hashems love.
Maybe there is a distinction between the damage sins like masturbation cause and what one is actually accountable for, obviously one cannot be hold accountable for things one cannot yet do, but maybe there is still damage?

Baalteshuvah,
You write about the fear of the consequences mentioned in the video and that perhaps there is no point of going further.  Allow me address this point again and hopefully I will say something that can be encouraging and useful. 

Emunah And Bitachon
Firstly, we need to realize that ALL judgment in this world is just.  The Ramban makes a very strong point of this in Shaar Gemul.  The reason is because otherwise we get CONFUSED and the result is no good.  G-d is JUST by his nature and we will never be judged or be punished unjustly.  Whether the accounts in the video are true or not makes no difference.  One thing is true is that whatever consequences do happen are just even if they make no sense. 

Our Rabbis teach us that one of the primary focuses of bitachon is to believe that as long as we are doing the will of the L-rd and trying our best, no harm will result from it, both in the physical world and spiritual world.

When we realize that all judgement is just together with the fact that as long as we are doing our part of doing the will of the L-ord we will not be harmed unjustly, then we become calm.  See Battleworn's recent post on control where he alludes to this. 

So the first major yesod to work is emunah and bitachon.  It cannot be that you will be tortured for your efforts. 
 
Teshuvah is a Shield
The Rambam writes that teshuvah is a shield from punishment.  Even if a person did a very terrible aveira and he is deserving of punishment, he is granted atonement by doing teshuvah and the punishment is wiped away.  While we try not focus too much on punishment and teshuva here on the forums, when we get scared, like you are, we should just remind ourselves that we can erase it.

The Steipler-Turnaround
The Steipler addressed the kind of "negative reinforcement" that you witnessed on the video.  He explains that it is unfortunate that the seforim that deal with this do not explain the other side-The Turnaround.  That means that while it is indeed true that under certain circumstances,  a person will create "bad spirits" and "tumah" in this world from his action, by doing teshuvah those "bad spirits" become "good spirits" and he all the "tumah" transforms into "kedushah" with much greater impact then the tumah.  It is encouraging to realize this.

Hi BT,

Welcome to our family.

Hashem cares very little as to where we are now in our religiousity. What He notices is WHERE WE ARE HEADING.

Picture a room bare of anything other than four walls, a ladder, and no ceiling.
Each wall faces a different direction, and the view on top of each is very different than the other 3.
Which wall will you place that ladder against as you begin your climb out?
What view do you eventually wish to gaze upon once youve reached the top of that wall?
Times square at midnight?
The Mets stadium?
Wall street?
...Heaven?
True you may not reach the top for a while,
but against which wall are you placing your ladder NOW?

DO NOT try and conquer everything in one day.
You will not manage to keep Shabbos and not masturbate and not, and not, and not etc overnight.
And if you try too, you will fail.
Growth is a ladder, not an escalator or even a flight of steps.
Escalators require no effort at all on our part.
Steps can be skipped and you can climb them two at a time.
A ladder needs climbing rung by rung. One at a time.

Religious growth must be on a ladder.
And the view on top of that wall will take your breath away with its absolute beauty.
As long as your ladder is leaning on the right wall...

7Up, beautiful post! Pure gold!

Guard, this sounds like a chizuk email.....

Dear balTeshuvah,

I am the admin of this forum. Sorry I didn't have time to answer you properly before. I would like you to please read the "Attitude Handbook" that we created (download it by clicking on the link). I am confident that after reading the 30 principles there, you will feel completely different - and actually happy that you have the merit to struggle in this area for Hashem's honor.

About that video... Firstly, I cannot vouch for the truth of this video. Who knows if it is not fabricated?

Second, even if it is true, do not let all these dramatic revelations cause you to despair. Teshuvah was created even before the world was created, and Hashem knew that we would stumble in these areas. Hashem has infinite patience and he understands us far better than we even understand ourselves. Chazal say that Hashem even brought David Hamelech to stumble with Bat Sheva, only to show us the incredible power of Teshuvah.

Also, it is brought down in the Holy books that through a sincere Teshuvah, all the souls that we created through our sins actually become uplifted, and they change from being “accusing angels” and become “defending angels” instead.

The person in that video was shown the children he had created while he was still non-religious. And since he had still not done Teshuvah, the souls stood as accusing angels... Today though, after his Teshuvah, these very souls will be defending angels who have found their peace.

So never despair! By learning the proper perspective on this struggle, and by taking the steps we can to break free, we are doing exactly what Hashem intended for us to do all along.

Let go of all worries, anxiety and fears. For these are the biggest enemies of progress. Hashem does not come with complaints against his creations, and he judges each person with great kindness according to their level. Your progress in keeping His Mitzvos is surely giving him tremendous pleasure, even if it is in baby steps.

Welcome to our community. We are proud to have another precious Jew on-board!

Welcome to our community dear friend!
I cannot fully understand the confusion you are going through, being that I have grown up completely religious, and basically kept everything already - by the time I was old enough to understand what I was keeping. You see for me I never had to get used to anything. It was all already part of my existing conduct. Therefore, I don't really know how to relate to your question of "Can I take my growth slowly, in order to maximize my success in the long run, as opposed to maximizing my adherence to torah now, while taking a chance that it will likely cause me to drop everything later?" That is a question for the Rabbis in your yeshiva, who certainly have all the knowledge on the subject, from all the proper sources, and have undoubtedly dealt with your question MANY MANY times before. (My guess is that you will be told to recognize the obligation to keep the Torah in it’s entirety, and at the same time recognize your limitations as a human being. So the proper way to fulfill your obligation to keep the whole torah, is by pacing yourself wisely, and in a way which will ultimately lead to full adherence).
I will say however, how inspired I am by you, and by your concern to grow, and your taking on so many new things, and parting from so many things which have been a regular part of life for you.
I don't know if you realize this, but you are doing one of the most amazing things that a jew can to honor H-shem. You are sacrificing the things in your life which are difficult for you to part with, in exchange for closeness to Him.
You certainly give me a renewed desire to accomplish my own spiritual goals. Thank you for that.
As far as the video is concerned, please don't get effected too much by it. There's a reason why what happens - in heaven, and to the souls of the deceased, and in the courts of higher justice - are all hidden from us. We are not supposed to be thinking in those terms. It is unproductive in the long run. If we were, and if it would be good for us – then heaven and it’s workings would be revealed to us.
Our mindset should be: A mitzvah is G-d’s will. Yes it is inherently good in it’s essence, very rewarding and satisfying, but the main thing is - this is why we were created, and this is what is good for us. To express our love for H-shem, and our desire to obey him at all costs.
An aveirah is against His will. Yes it brings depression pain and discomfort. But the main thing is - it opposes what G-d wants, and is not good for us.
This mentality is not something you can install into your mind at the flick of a switch. You have to let it develop little by little. It takes a lot of patience to grasp thoroughly. But ultimately you get there. Till then, just be strong and hang in there!