wilnevergiveup wrote on 06 Apr 2022 11:10:

I agree with everything written here. I did not mean to present self-talk as a method that for sure works for everyone or as a replacement for anything anyone else is doing. It was meant as something that does work a nice percent of the time (surely far from 100%) for other matters (addictive behaviors, low self-esteem, depression, getting better at basketball, etc.), and I started an experiment to see how well it would help people after trying it for 90 days, in an easier way that would make it actually more likely that they would do the self-talk for 90 days. I'm not sure where I came off otherwise, but I was worried that perhaps someone would take this or any other mistaken idea, so I invited "discussion." But instead of discussion, I was met with sarcastic fervor from people who never tried self-talk or read about whether it is effective or not. No one bothered asking if I can post a link to a study about whether it actually works for anything or not. Because the people who posted were just interested in making fun of anything they see, rather than actually discussing the topic.
(If you feel Shtarkandemotional wrote differently, 1. He's not me. 2. He is a very exuberant person and perhaps he overstated things mistakenly. A nice normal non-threatening conversation would have corrected any mis-impressions he gave off.)
The one relevant topic that did come up, about saying things that you don't believe to be true, yielded a nice discussion. Though the poster himself also could not help himself and had to mention his "stance" in a way that accused us of saying things in self-talk that we don't believe in and of lying to ourselves, without 1) actually discussing it with us, and 2) without actually reading the thread. He just heard about the thread and had someone post his definite truth on it.
I don't think these are ways to have a productive discussion.
As an aside, I think the thread did its job. We have a few people trying self-talk, and if they are willing to report their results after 90 days, I will let everyone know how it went. Of course, 5 people's results will not be a proven track record of anything. But it will provide some food for thought.

Regarding Trouble, I don't mean to make any fun. I am genuinely interested in hearing what he has to say, on a separate thread in What Works for Me. (I pledge not to pop in and mock what he says with sarcastic banter.) I have a lot of respect for Trouble. I didn't mean to make fun. Though I do wish he would presenting things on other people's threads in a more refined way.

I'm asking anyone who, like me, genuinely wants to hear Trouble's methods and wants him to open a thread about it in What Works for Me, to please click the Thank You button to show him that you want it.

In 12 step groups there is a saying that goes something like "We talk in I not the WE or the YOU".

May I also chim in a bit the way I see it?... 

GYE covers a wide spectrum of PMO issues. There is the guy who needs 'chizzuk' in shmiras eineim, nisyoises, nfilos, yetzer horah, etc a bucher who falls and masturbates once in a month, or who just figured out he shouldn't do it. For those usually they need the push, chairleeding, say tehilim, make a tafshic, walk beforehand, say ashrei backwards, make jumping Jack's on your hands, you dont want to, your the best etc etc.

Then there are the ones who struggle.... they tried all of those 'Tricks' 8 years ago, they know that it entails more then 'nisyoines', all the above tools might be helpful but it's good for once, they will get back there after saying the whole chumash and Rashi twice, with their feet in ice. Those guys usually know that there is hard work for them in order to get clean, sober, and okay. Therapy, 12 steps, meetings, phone calls, and work work work... 

Now, there is an important place for both of these guys to help others, but one must not forget his place, a guy who came here and got clean in a month with a little chairleeding, has NO idea about addiction, nor should he claim he does, he can and should share what has worked for him, and it will definitely help guys in his stage of struggle, but to come and tell GYE, "I got the trick! Your working hard for nothing, just a few minutes a day that masturbating isnt great and spoof!" Is...... it's like coming on to a cancer center and saying, "I also felt weak, and I ate chicken soup! Drop the chemotherapy!" 

(and the same idea is when they go against a method with absolute terms)

Dont get me wrong, GYE needs guys like that who give ideas, tools, chizzuk, etc especially for newcomers, to which "strugglers" have a hard time relating to, but to think that you've got the "trick" to cure addiction, is a stretch-and rubs on people who really struggle. I've got news for you, No it will not cure them.... 

I hope you understand, and I tried to be very gentle, I wrote and erased a few time so it doesn't come across direct, I hope it doesn't. And I truly appreciate the work of guys like yourself, Imho it is very important.

P.s. about your @trouble request, let's not focus on people, let's stick to topics. (FWIW I think you also dont have a thread about your struggles and what worked for you....)

hmmm..... so judging by the amount of thank you's you received, it doesn't seem that the folk here agree with you too much. i am truly humbled by the amount of support i got, and it is somewhat difficult for a haughty fellow like myself to be humbled - it's almost like an exotic dancer attending a rabbi falk seminar.

before i get to "what works for me" or "what hasn't," i just wanna let the fellows know that they should never hold back from throwing the kitchen sink at me; i don't care if it's filled with glass dishes or yesterday's egg salad; it's perfectly fine by me. never delete a sentence or a post on my account. i was told that there were some ferocious nauru jokes going around, using words that even adele would not say on public television; please, don't keep them to yourself.

regarding my personal history and what i have found helpful, i have bared my soul (and more) countless of times here (and like a poster above mentioned - others simply preach), but i will again. i have been addicted to many variations of sex and eroticism and self-pleasuring for a decade or two or three; i have experienced and engaged in many types of recovery as well - therapists, mentors, took oaths and vows, specialists, sa meetings, phone meetings (if cords could only bring back his group - i'm trying to count on one hand how many times i missed one of his calls), read all the books many times over, 90-day challenge, worked the steps, studied mussar, talked to many folks, spoke with my rebbe. there was success there - for extended periods of time as well. and at the same time, like i said, i have engaged in behaviors that not many here can say the same. 

i've been busy the past two months, so i'm doing well, but my intentions for future actions are not good to say the least.

resting on the command ridge, nauru's highest point

Maybe it's only me who's interested, but would you care to rate from 0-10 how helpful each thing you mentioned was for you:

therapists,
mentors,
oaths and vows,
specialists,
sa meetings,
phone meetings
(cordnoy's phone meetings)
books (also if any were helpful you could share with us which)
90-day challenge,
working the 12 steps,
studied mussar,
talking to folks,
speaking with your rebbe.

Also, I wanted to say that i'm very impressed that you put in all this work. You are a true inspiration.

Hi trouble. Thank you for sharing this and giving some more context about your journey. It helps me to read this post of yours.
Agav, I want to ask you something that I've wondered now for many months:
Do you actually live in Nauru, or is it just a joke I don't get?

5Uu80*cdwB#^ wrote on 06 Apr 2022 19:32:

pleasure; it started as a joke - as i do not use capital letters (only lower case - for the shift button on my keyboard is generally broken), i used nauru as an example, for it is the only country in the world without a capital. however, it has grown on me and others, so now i live here.

anabare bay, nauru, just finished praying vasikin