After a recent incident, I realize that ANGER is something I need to work on as much as lust.

Since I've joined this forum, besides this lust addiction, I've uncovered a serious computer addiction, and today I just realized I have a problem with anger which, apparantly, is more severe than I thought [I was defending my own children's rights in the public park, when the OTHER kid actually got up and called the police on me--I can't believe it, but I was nearly arrested!].

I would be grateful if anyone could tell me if there is any material similar to this forum for dealing with anger?  Other practical suggestions would be helpful.

I'm learning an awfully lot about myself from participating in this forum.

I see what it means to deal with the ROOT of a bad middah.  I used to think that, perhaps a person is working on ANGER, but the root is really that he's a KAPDAN [too particular about finances, or about his own honor].  As long as a person works on ANGER and not on being a KAPDAN, he'll never make any real progress.

I was always worried.  What if he decides to work on being a KAPDAN, but in the end the problem is that he doesn't have enough EMUNAH, etc, etc.

But, now I see that working on the root doesn't mean picking the right middah.  Rather, it means taking the middah you have chosen, let's say LUST, and not just telling yourself DON'T LUST.  Instead, you have to figure out WHY do you lust.  What triggers it.  What pain are you trying to escape, and how can you deal with it better.  What void are you trying to fill, and how can you fill it in a healthy manner.

In this way, even if a person has labeled his problem wrong (ANGER instead of KAPDAN, for example), he's still going to realize what his REAL problem is.

There is a book titled "Everyday Holiness". It is a modern day Mussar sefer in english. It is very practical. It is worth looking at.

Anger is an easy way out...i used to get angry all the time...now i just rage...heres the difference (to me): when something bothers you, you can react with raising your voice increasing your blood pressure and reaching out in violence...after a few seconds of anger, you feel better...but you havent really accomplished anything other than making yourself feel better...i never raise my voice and i never get angry...when something enrages me, i change it and i fix it...it is a long and sometimes trecherous process to change what you dont like but its constructive instead of destructive...when you have this approach in life you learn that you cannot change every little annoyance and those annoyances just stop annoying you...you focus on making real changes that matter...

that being said, there is a myriad of programs available for folks who need help with anger management...

this may suprise you a litte. but.....
and i want you to think about this for a day or 2.....
the answer to your "anger problem" may be very simple.
how many hours of solid sleep do you get a night.
do you know that over 50% of adults need 9 hours of sleep a night!
in todays society ones is  looked down on if you get  more than 6 hours of shut eye.
there are a lot of problems that contribute to sleep deprivation. However, irritiablity/anger
is the king of them all. it is most difficult to control emoitions when one is sleep deprived.
so while people might suggest anger mang. books...... more hours of sleep could be the answer.
remember think about this!

Dear Eye,

Not knowing anything about your personal journey, history, etc., here is what your post reminded me of:

After an honest and completely open step 1 (no big deal), at least some comfort agreeing in my heart with step 2 (not that hard), an honest committment to begin step 3 (just a start), and a fearless yet very imperfect 4th step inventory (quite simple, really): the 6&7th actually do relieve one resentment at a time, if I use them. Just a pitch.

And sadly, jumping to step 7 would have been a complete and total waste of time for me, as was the tikkun hamiddos projects I had been undertaking for years. I needed to get sober first, then a little sane, and then start worrying a little about my middos, in order to stay sober rather than to become a better person. Just a share.

Thanks,
Dov

MARK wrote on 07 Oct 2009 18:22:


Tremendous amount of truth in this 'simple' post folks.

Dov is right, Eye. If you work the steps, you will deal with the underlying issues of anger and resentments, and the lust will (hopefully) disappear on it's own... almost as an after-thought...

I suggest joining Duvid Chaim's upcoming 12-Step group.

Dov, I didn't quite get it.  Can you try that again please?

Let's try reading Dov's post again while referencing the steps below, and see if we get more of an idea what he's talking about...



1. We admitted we were powerless over lust--that our lives had become unmanageable.



2. We came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.



3. We made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.



4. We made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.



6. We were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
7. We humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.




I added words in the parentheses above, to make Dov's words clearer. What I think he is saying, is that through working the steps he was able to get sane and sober first, and then learn how to be a better person AFTERWARDS - in order to STAY sober. But he couldn't become a better person FIRST, before he was sane and sober.

(Did I get it right, Rebbe?)

Holy Yid wrote on 07 Oct 2009 17:45:


I read this a while ago and it has some practical advice regarding this issue. If I remember correctly, it says that anger is difficult to control because by the time you realise you're angry it's too late to be able to do much about it, but you should rather concentrate on improving the positive traits that counter anger, such as patience, seeing things from another's point of view etc. I'm planning on re-reading it afdter Sukkos so I'll try to post anything that might be useful.

As with most things of course it's easier said than done, but it may help.

Greetings all,
          I very much agree with Mark, sleep or lack of, is a major contributor to losing ones temper leading to anger. I have personal experience in my own family of how working night shifts and a lack of sleep can result in anger.

If by chance ones anger is not due to lack of sleep, realising that at the end of the day everything is the result of Hashem's will (this has probably been covered in the posts above). If we know that everything is from Hashem, including all the trials and tribulations, we realise that we cannot change our mazel and accept our lot from Hashem. Obviously we have to use our own free will to better ourselves and others around us. Being angry can be a result and reaction to fustrations that greet us in life, the more we realise their true source the less angry we will become. Hope this helps.

I have a question with everyone here.......is it OK to be angry with oneself? Or is this an unhealthy attitude?

Noson

Perhaps I was not quite clear.

I'm not saying that anger is a little character trait and hey, now that I've been so successful with conquering this lust addiction I'm all done with the big business and now I can tackle those small details.  The only imperfection I have left is raising my voice once every three years, so let's take care of that and I'll be a perfect tzaddik.

I've never once been almost arrested for this lust addiction, but here I was getting angry at some kid and did almost get arrested.  It seems like I am AS out of control with anger AT LEAST as much as I am out of control with lust.  And they are both very serious and can be very distructive.

I definitely have a long way ahead of me.  I am not saying that any of this is easy at all, even if perhaps I wrote very simply.  [It would be like saying, "To reach the moon you need a spaceship."  It's a very simple sentence, but not executed so simply].

But, I'm fooling myself to think the only problem I have is looking at women on the street, and by the way nothing else really matters.

This anger is really frightening.  And it's too dangerous to just put it on hold until I have perfected myself at walking down the street and having no interest whatsoever to lift my eyes beyond my daled-amos.

I assumed that I am not alone in noticing other serious problems besides lust.  And, the responses I have already got have been very helpful.

But, if I am totally missing the point, I would be happy to be enlightened.

guardureyes wrote on 08 Oct 2009 11:49:

von hindred prrrocent rright, actually, Rabeinu Guard, and much clearer than I could have phrased it, for sure....

Rib Eye  ,
I am not really recommending something to you, just sharing with you what is working for me. It may seem a giant derailment, to start on this "step thing" if one is primarily concerned with "working on his middos". But my point was that for someone who is already screwed up in this lust problem, the steps are an amazing tool for
1- gaining freedom from his lust problem,
2- finally gaining the relationship waiting for him with his Best Eternal Friend,
3- gaining the sanity he deserves, and
4- finally living the easy life
             - all in the same process. And it is simple, simple, simple, if you are doing it right.

How could I not at least pitch that?
- Dov

So you're saying if I do the 12 steps properly, they take care of everything all at once.  You don't have to specifically work on 12 steps for lust and in addition work on 12 steps for anger.

Just 12 steps.

That's it?

R' Eye -
Here goes:
There is no such animal in my experience as working the (entire) 12 steps "on anger". The anger/resentment, fear/worry, pride/entitlement problems we have are, in my experience, just our associated disorders that lead us to be miserable with life, people, or ourselves. When an addict is uncomfortable enough  he/she will medicate using the addictive behavior.
The compulsive sex, lusting, drinking, cocaine, heroin, gambling, etc, etc, seems to give us our power back. It gives us a real feeling of control, of safety. Even though we are out of control and very unsafe, we are plugged into something much bigger than ourselves and 100% along for the ride. It is more powerful, and more predictable than real life has been for us so far. And so much more powerful and predictable than Hashem has been for us, too, by the way. And you cannot argue/reason/hashkafa "away" a thing that we actually know we feel in our very gut. "Go ahead, join my conscience and beg me to not believe what I know in my gut - good luck!" Real or imagined, it is real to us, and seems to work for us - at least in the beginning. Addicts become stuck in it and cannot usually get out on their own. Then life really starts to stink - sometimes to everyone around us, too.
The 12 steps I know about are for anyone who has come to the conclusion that they are hopelessly unable to beat their addiction or have come to really believe that they will be beaten if nothing radically changes.  
Once they are clean because they really accept that they are no longer able to drink, drug, lust, etc., they work the steps in order and will face their associated disorders ("defects of character") that make life today so unbearable in the first place. That is what steps 4-9 are about. And it never ends. We do not get fixed. We keep on growing, discovering and surrendering more defects, getting more and more free and living with less and less pain, stress, anger, pride and fear. Slowly.
If we do not consent to face our defects of character and to use those steps, it seems that we will eventually just fall back into the addictive (or a new addictive) behavior. So the solution is basically inescapable.
The good news is that it makes for a great life for us and all those around us, and - in my case - it was the only way I found to really become a yid and find my own relationship with my own G-d. And that isn't something that any money can buy .

Now, that's all just my experience. Some see their anger or other emotional acting out as an addiction in itself. I don't understand how they do it exactly but, who cares? If you feel that your problem is not sexual acting out or lusting at all, but that it is rage or anger that is making your life unmanageable, then you may find something useful if you look up "Emotions Anonymous", an organization that I believe was started by an early member of SA, named Jesse.
Hatzlocha and all the best to you and yours!!