I relate so much to that, Avrohom! When we were in EY a little while back I tried my guts out to get in by R' Tzvi-Meyer Zilberberg and got bumped on the last day we were there. I was so upset. After being honest with myself looking back and having a clearer head about it, I admitted that I probably do not deserve the luxury of getting all bent out of shape about it, if I didn't make it a real top priority by trying to get in to see him from the start of our trip! So often do we make a big deal over something that fails, just cuz we failed (or were foiled by someone else) - even though the thing we were trying to get itself is not really that important to us!

Nu. Next trip if I really want to go to him, I will try to get in from the first day I am there iy"H. Boruch Hashem at least for hindsight...learning from the past is a good thing to be able to do. Only time will tell...

On the lust issue you mentioned, I find that the way I walk into a place helps me a lot more than 'steeling myself against the lust'. If I go to a place with a peaceful acceptance of the facts for me, I allow Hashem in and do much better. That includes:

1- humbly admitting that in view of my past I - of all people - cannot afford to partake, and that using their images today would just be stupid (there's learning from my past, again!), for me; and

2- reminding myself expressly why I am going through that place in the first place now - sometimes speaking it out to myself (or to another) helps.

It seems that those things help me remain safe. The humility of accepting those facts also removes my shame about the, - and that is essential if I am really going to speak to Hashem about them explicitly.

Ultimately we are baylim over what we let into our heads. I like telling a great chassidishe story to newbies about when the Maggid sent a chosid to R' Wolf of Zhitomir to learn that he can learn to have at least some control over what preoccupies his mind, in "Generation to Generation", page 66) In fact, the way I use the second step is to accept that unfortunately there are some people, types of people, and body parts that we routinely make into powers greater than ourselves. And they bring us to insanity because we end up acting out or doing other stupid or destructive things over them. Addicts who are honest with themselves know just what this means and see how they do it easily when they write it down as part of their 2nd step work. For many people it's not even about lust - just giving people or things real-estate in our heads itself, is a problem.

If we have that problem, then admitting it may be our first step in finding our true Higher Power that can restore us to sanity. It's becoming right-sized that essentially allows us to accept His help. As the Kotzker said, "G-d only comes where people let Him in."

I also find that in the first few months or years in recovery and every now and then after that, it is very helpful to make calls to guys before entering an environment that history tells us may be a challenge. The humility of doing that is palpable. It's an experience like no other. We reveal our concerns explicitly and review what we want to accomplish there. We admit it if are actually not at peace with going in there without partaking of the lust 'shmorg', after all. Hey - honesty opens up new real freedoms and new avenues for Hashem's power to work in us. It is amazing what happens as a result of us just being honest and leading with our weaknesses rather than running away from them. Marriages and lives change. I see it over and over - and it gets better and better.

And if no friend is available to open up to about the facts, then saying all the truth explicitly to Hashem works, too. (As long as the reason I am going to Him rather than to people is not just to avoid the inconvenience (shame) of admitting it all to a 'real live' person. If that's why I'm resorting to G-d, then I'm just playing games and fooling myself.)

(Hope you had) a great Shabbos!

Dov did you write this post a few minutes before Shabbos because it is not written in your typical clean and clear way? I don't know why I just found the reading unclear and not well written. Sorry!

Yitzchok (Or maybe it is just the amount of cholent I ate over Shabbos made it unclear to me )

Thanks, I'll rewrite it. Frankly, I never thought my writing was clear in the first place, so thanks for the compliment, Avrohom!

My objective was to relate by sharing my own experiences and on the way give one eitza and three tools. Nu, thanks for the feedback and I hope that the tools I shared may be picked up and used by you for a while, if u want to and r ready. Gut Voch!

thanks dov i havnt been on for a long time now two weeks now ive davened everyday all the tefilos till now i hardly davened i started speaking to hashem a few times a day thanking him for everything even what looks bad even thanking him when i fall thanks to hashem for everything because it all comes from him i clearly see it as its not me im sober now for 4 days when i fell a few days ago i didnt get upset just learn from it i have to listen to my sponser and call people
im powerless over lust AVROHOM

last week was a disaster up and down alot of acting out bh beenn 2 days sober now i need to sit down and write a stucture for my day

melost wrote:


I've been there. I've seen it and experienced it. When my schedule was open the yetzer hora mamash turned me into a 5 course dinner with all the trimmings.

Don't expect magic to happen when you set a schedule. It will however get you into a "groove" and there will fewer opportunities to fall (fewer opportunities, not no opportunities)

B'simcha,

Eli

I am with you on that one Melost.
When my days go well and as planned it is much much easier for me to stay clean. But the problems start when I have to do other things and my day is off balance.
So for starters it is very good to have a well structured, but we need to have the power to fight and win even when pushed off balance, and that is tough.

Yitzchok

Are you really using your sponsor and opening up to the real people in your meetings - or still using this forum to 'be really painfully open with' because the nice people here are not real people?

Dov wrote:
i actully go to 2 meetings a week sometimes 3 i am open with my sponser not so much im havinging difculties and resententment i have people i speak to more then him im not sure exacly why thanks

thanks all of u i do need to sit down write it and do it i want someone to do it with me i guess thats to do with my being inscure i dont know yesterday decided i have had anouth with sa speaking to people the whole day i was helping this guy speaking to him every half an hour while he was travelling so he shouldnt act out was angry at my sponser i decided finished i will watch porn act out just read a book stop bothering to go to shuir daven well it was hell realy depressed today my work/school owes me $6000 i think its going to closes down been looking for new job im powerless over myself i decided before to go dy shuir and i am now here i am complety powerless over mysef got a phone bill today for $450 from the chat lines scared to tell my wife my phone has been disconected cant call sa members now dont want to call my spomser as he told me i shouldent call him till i have a kosher phone well i think thats enouth for today well i have to turn my life over to hashem im hurt upset

It sounds to me like you have a good sponsor, for he is not taking responsibility onto himself for your sobriety. Boruch Hashem for that.

Now, you know I love you, Avrohom, and I believe b'emunah sheleimah that your intentions were 100% beautiful...but I want to say that when you spent all those calls with that poor guy every half hour to 'save him from acting out', you were bleeding for him, giving up your own sobriety for him. Who do you think you are? I know that guy thinks you are his trach can to vomit in...but you and I know you are not that at all. You are a good man (not G-d).

And the Torah says Chayecho kodmin. Playing G-d kills us. It's just more fantasy. And getting sucked into the lie that another codependent addict manipulates you into, is just a poison for you - and for him. We do not go very far, while playing G-d - even to 'do chesed'.

Boruch Hashem your sponsor sounds like a guy you could really learn a lot from on this very point! That's great! I hope you continue to use him one day at a time, Avrohom. You are certainly 100% worth it.

Finally, I hope you know that 'giving your life over to Hashem' is not done just by accepting the past and the repercussions of all the things that we cannot change (like your $450 bill from the phone lines - boy do I relate to that!). It is only really done by also accepting the responsibility to change the things we can...like getting a kosher phone if that is what your sponsor suggests.

Hatzlocha my friend!!

Oh...but you are hurting and upset, I forgot.

You are not alone, Chaver. I hope you find some small nekudaleh to be grateful for in your darkness, fan it, care for it, and let it grow into some real nechoma. Maybe then you and your wife will go into this Shabbos feeling like all is not over, but the project is getting built...

Fell better, too, Avrohom.

thanks on the question of surrporting an sa i guess i need some clarity as u correct im also leaning to much on some other people thank

im back to were i started acting out all the time only thing is im still going to meetings i dont even surrender it to hashem or call anyone i just dont care

I think you do care. Your just ungezetzed