Rabosai, I just found this site and I'm in serious trouble. I went through the handbook and had a great clean month but I fell and fell and can't get back on the wagon. It seems like I can't get hissorerus from the Handbook anymore! That since I tried it I don't have anything left. I start for three days and then have a "superfall" and then I start over again. I'm so sick of this but it's so discouraging to keep on falling!! Also it's a viscous cycle; fall=bad additude at work and home=bad learning=more falling and again and again. So how do I get back on the wagon???? Thanks much and Hatzlacha to everyone!

Maybe look at doing a 12 step program??

Dear theirv,

This is a big step for you, wow. Thanks for posting!

In order to be of the real kind of help that you obviously want, please consider explaining exactly what you mean when you say "fall" and "super fall". Do you mean you are having sex with yourself (masturbating), or do you mean that you are using hookers, or that you are looking at porn but not even touching yourself, at all...or is it something else? What exactly is the problem behavior(s) (not halachically, but physically) that you are referring to?

If you need to know what I do in my mess, I (and some others here) would be glad to detail it all for you and admit it all, if that'd help break the ice for you. Just ask if u need that, chaver. If you feel too uncomfortable to answer that question here, I'd be happy to use PMs for that, or even to speak on the phone if that's what you need. But for Heavens sakes, we are anonymous and even virtual here on this forum. You are very safe here. The virtualness does not take away deep shame, that's true...but at least let fear be a non-issue here.

Respectfully,

Dov

Welcome friend!
The more you share your anonymous troubles with us, the more beneficial it will be for you.
Hatzlocho,
Mottel

Rabosia, Thank you for your words of encouragement. Even though the shame is palpable I feel the best thing is to let it out and hopefully let go. Ok a fall is just acting out with masturbation while viewing porn as apposed to a superfall which this happens continuously (meaning the next available second when i don't have responsibilities) and usually lasts around 5 times before I get disgusted with myself. ]

The funny thing is I usually have a superfall when i tell myself,"OK, we're getting back on the wagon, let's have one more binge and then never again! (of course by taking it one day at a time)."

I have tried the 12-step and really the part that helped was being closer to Hashem and letting Him take care of me but to be honest, some parts of the program I just wasn't sold on. I went through the whole thing and it all felt good, including confiding in someone else and making up with everybody, I just didn't get much chizuk from that.

My usual cycle is one week on the Nefila-Teshuva roller-coaster then a few good days of chizuk and then bam which usually results with falling off the wagon and sometimes R"L a superfall!

Thank you so so much for helping me. I know I always have a Makom here and I we're in this together. I don't want to go to HELL!!

Thank you for your honesty.
I wish I could comment on your 12 step experience, but I'm on a cellphone, and the tiny keyboard is driving me crazy
But let me ask you this:
1. Practically speaking, masturbating once or five times in a row (or twenty five years in a row, like me) - what's the difference? Is one time not too many? Or is the inability to satisfy our hunger even after five times scary and disheartening?
2. Is going to HELL your only motivation for not masturbating to porn or is living like this hell on earth?
Mottel

Welcome dear chaver,

Your problem of how to get back up at this point is one that I have been dealing with for many decades. And I also had a great streak after finding GYE, and then I tumbled after 168 days. But you know what? I simply decided to get back up and to concentrate on 3 main points:
1. Daven to Hashem every single day for assistance in this struggle
2. Avoid all lustful sights and thoughts
3. Forget about what happened or about the future - work it ONE DAY AT A TIME

B"H this works wonders for me, and perhaps it may do the same for you. Worth a try.

Hatzlacha!

MT

Machshava, it's funny when I have Hatlacha in this inyan is's totally been because of those things you outlined. I just have to focus on getting closer to Hashem and keeping my eyes down....one day at a time. I just need to build momentum because the first days are really hard! For instance my fall last night

theirv wrote on 04 Jun 2012 11:50:

Hello brother!
Of course, it's easier to have a conversation with someone when they at least acknowledge your message, let alone actually answer direct questions.
But I find that more often than not, people come here for validation of their ideas, not actually seeking the truth and a working solution.
However, since you did come on to this public (albeit anonymous) forum, I'll share my opinion with you anyways. I'd love for you to answer the questions I posed, though. I beleive the answers will shed light on your situation for yourself, as well as allow us to be of more help.
But now that I am at a normal computer, I'd like to spend a minute refelcting on your comment I quoted above.
In the interest of honest disclosure, you should know that I have been a member of Sexaholics Anonymous for the last seven months or so, and have seen tremendous success (306 clean days - longest clean streak EVER) with working the 12-step program.
But I am by no means a recruiter for SA, and I beleive (as is stated somewhere else on thsi website) that for a non-addict, live meetings and 12-step program may not be beneficial.
At the same time, when someone claims to "have gone through the whole thing" and not be helped, I have to wonder as to why.
I assume (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that you didn't actually "work" the steps.
I would venture to say you didn't have guidance of a "sponsor", someone who has worked the steps before you, and has a positive experience and a proven sobriety record.
And my guess is, you've not commited to the program of "rigorous honesty" that going to live meetings demands.
All of that is good and fine, if your reading of the 12 steps in a brochure or on a website satisfied your curiosity, and you then moved on to other things.
But I think it disingeniuos to claim that you "weren't sold on some parts" and that you didn't "get much chizuk" from it if you didn't actually approach this program the way it's supposed to be worked.
When I came into SA, I was sure that I got the three first steps down just by virtue of being a frum Jew. "Confiding in someone else" and "making up with everybody" was going to be a breath as well.
Well, turns out that something as basic as "admitting I am powerless over lust" and conceding that "my life has become unmanageable" is more difficult to do if you are to be sincere about it, and not just do a lip-service in order to claim "I'm down with the first step". How much more so with the rest of the steps.
But my main issue with your remark on the 12-steps is in your words "it all felt good".
When I brush my teeth, it doesn't matter if it makes me feel good. The point is to get my teeth clean. It's not about how it makes me feel at all. Nor can I hope that by reading the instructions on the toothbrush, I will now be cured of gingivitus. Maintaining good oral hygiene is a daily, arduos task.
I hope the nimshal is muvon.
If I am unable to maintain sobriety and achieve progressive victory over lust, I must be doing something wrong. If I masturbate habitually, and am unable to stay stopped, I am not using the right tools to recover.
So it may very well be that the 12 Step program is not for you. Only you can know for sure. But if someone says in the same breath "12 Steps didn't work for me and I can't go for more than a week without having sex with myself" then maybe, just maybe, he should look for a solution where it can be found (and has been found by so many), and not just look for validation of his own failed efforts.
Really hoping this was clear, even if it wasn't agreeable,
your brother
Mottel.

Wow. I am more curious what exactly you mean by 'trying the 12 steps'. I tried the 12 steps on my own for a few years (between 1988 and 1992) before failing so badly over the next five years that eventually I was forced to really try the 12 steps....with other addicts in real live (normal) meetings, just like the alcoholics always did and still do. And then I started getting better, be"H.

So - if you want to answer - do you mean you met with others like you who were successfully recovering, or something else, chaver?

while I can't comment on the twelve step program (with a lot of help and syata d'shmaya my yetzer hara became subdued before i learned of this site) I can tell by your frustration that you have what it takes. Do not think that your one month is nothing. it is excellent. I had periods during my recovery where i couln't even do that. and i repeat that it was during my recovery period. every minor stretch is a step in the right direction. even if one stretch is shorter than a previous stretch. it can go back and forth like a ping-pong ball. just remember the times you were successful and when you think you can't fight your desires remember that you once did.
i hope this helps
don't ever get tired of climbing back on
hatzlacha

theirv wrote on 05 Jun 2012 12:13:


Yes! The first few days, weeks, even months can be murder. They were for me. A mental storm. But I just kept stubbornly begging Hashem to take my lust yet again. And I really took it one day at a time. I never even counted. At some point it got a little easier, but I remain active in my avoidance of all lustful stimuli. It takes full commitment and a real willingness to give up (surrender) lust itself. Life is better on the bright side :D