kanesher wrote on 25 Jan 2010 12:59:
Dear K'nesh - Please check out what I just posted to Momo on his thread, "MomoII: another try", (in "Wall of Honor", I think). It's relatively short (for me) and touches in a general way on much of my vexations about marriage in many ways and perhaps it'll speak to you, too. We obviously need to keep our hearts on the solution, as soon as we are done whining (which takes me a while to get done with, too.) Hope you like it. I'm just too lazy to write it again over here.....Dov

kanesher wrote on 25 Jan 2010 13:08:


I personally don't believe such people!

Kedusha wrote on 25 Jan 2010 23:00:
Look guys, people are stupid sometimes, even good people, even nice people, and even people with good and nice marriages. He obviously didn't realize what he sounded like.
I believe them, I just don't think they really appreciate what they have, and definitely did not work for it.

I tend to disagree with the "If he says his marriage is good he must beat his wife or vice versa" - theory.

Kanesh, see this article.

Count your blessings!

Like Mom said, some people suffer with parnassa, others with health, others with their children's health, others with rebellious children, etc... R"L... If life is generally good, and you're healthy and have what to eat, and I understand that your wife is good looking and you understand each other well too, then MA YISONEN ADAM CHAI, GEVER AL CHATA'AV?

As a wise man I know was wont to say: "Who am I to want anything? What more can a Jew expect in this world? We are not here for pleasure."

Kollel Guy wrote on 26 Jan 2010 06:52:


Agreed, but when someone says that shalom bayis, and a healthy marriage are "easy," I wonder if his wife agrees with him... :D

silentbattle wrote on 26 Jan 2010 16:04:


Thats an excellent point SB! Well put and probably very true.

silentbattle wrote on 26 Jan 2010 16:04:


And vice versa. 

Along those lines, any Rav who speaks about Shalom Bayis would probably be very uncomfortable if his Rebbetzin were in the audience (and vice versa).

Right...

There is a gemarah somewhere, that says that yesurin will come to everyone, eventualy. SO abbaya says 'why wait for your eyes to ache, stay up late learning torah, why wait for ..... be mekabeil that tza'ar in the study of torah. WE ALL have a choice about where to have our tzaros, so why not choose to have it in torah.

Someone once went to R Shach, after facing a potential loss of an amount so powerfull, that he will be bankrupt for life! The advice he received, was to be mekabeil ol torah, to sit and learn for the two weeks before the trial, and do nothing else (there was no hishtadlus to be done). Since "Kol Hamekabeil Alav ol torah, ma'avirim mimenu Ol malchus, derech eretz, etc.

We all have to get this point through our thick skulls! Hashem's plans entail that we all have our 'peckel', we need a yolk that binds us under it's influence, and keeps us out of trouble!!

I once heard "ach tov v'chesed yirdefuni"- Dovid Hamelech said -if something is going to chase me, let it be chesed. If my child wakes up at 2 am, and my wife says," go get a bottle," that tza'ar should be converted to a chance to do chesed , in our eyes.
If people went into marriage knowing what it would be like, then they wouldn't do it. Ignorance is bliss, holds true on many levels.

penitent

What I was trying to get across is that whenever I get grumpy and sad about my disappointments in "shalom bayis", I whine, feel sorry for myself, whine some more, eat some cheese with my whine, and then get sick of it and finally slap myself out of the trance only to discover that love is all I can really give! I can't do any more for my wife than love her.
And the program taught me that the truest definition of love is not a feeling, but an action. Loving my wife means telling her that I love her and will do anything I can for her, put her needs first for me above those of anyone else's (including GYE!), listening to her, being where I say I will be for her and the kids when I say I'll be there, letting go of my complaints about her, and supporting her.
It doesn't mean becoming the gadol hador, always being "right", being more of the handsome, strong and silent type, being romantic, nor does it mean "helping" her to finally fulfill all my fantasies and needs so that I'll finally be happier with her.....nope.
Ouch that hurt me.
This growing up did not come easily to me. Maybe whoever is reading this harbors some of these grandiose expectations......"naw, not me!" I say: think again. What do you have to lose? More disappointments?
Though my gut told me those things were exactly what we needed me to do in order to make things work out in the end, in the end it was complete hogwash.
Eeeewwww.
The only stuff that matters is the only stuff I can really do - Take the Actions of Love. I do not have, and will never have power over how my wife reacts to me. All I can do is love her. All those years of hiding, lying (for shalom bayis, of course! ) and manipulating her, were garbage.
And it is working out 1000 times better this way (don't tell anyone!). Throwing the outcomes to Hashem (or at least just not hanging onto them!!!) is the only way for me.

I think I'm gonna save this post, write it down, and read it every day before I walk into my home and say hi to my wife.

dov wrote on 28 Jan 2010 22:29:
ASTOUNDED!!!

I'm just discovering this Dov (Big Bad BeAR) gUY...aND i LIKE IT...Yum. Sweet like Honey!

DOV IS KING except that might not work with the 12 steps humility thing. Dov can you be king. I'd vote for you if I can