Hey Elyah,

Wanna hear another secret about my sobriety?

Promise you won't tell anybody?

Here it is. But shhh...

... YMG isn't really my name...

YMG wrote on 02 Aug 2011 14:48:

YMG OMG!

YMG wrote on 01 Aug 2011 22:38:

I'm back, although I never really left.  Here is my problem.

What right do you have to express any opinion on accountability.

YMG wrote on 02 Aug 2011 12:55:


When you admit that:

YMG wrote on 01 Aug 2011 22:38:


I don't care if you use an accountability partner or don't; so long as you are lust free I couldn't be happier for you.  But when it comes to advising others (or letting your opinions be known) there is a mitzvah of giving an עצה הוגנת, in order to do so I think you have to have the facts down regarding what you are expressing your opinion on.

Continued hatzlacha.  Stick around, I'm sure we have much we can learn from you.

Ooh, a rough one! 

And look at those ears! And teeth!

Sooo cute!

Can we get him?  ;D

Just kidding feller...

But you're not going to get me to debate this here.

Send it in a private message and I'll respond.

YMG wrote on 02 Aug 2011 15:24:


What's to debate, unless you were really kidding when you said:

YMG wrote on 01 Aug 2011 22:38:


As far as privately I'm still waiting for your response back (perhaps the private debate line is very long). 

That comment was loaded with sarcasm. Sorry pal.

And the private message you sent me sounded like you were just bleating without really making a point.

So my response to your "no point", would be my "no point" in return. 

That would go something like this:

"Oh well."

And I like the Calvin... 

Cut the baby in half.

Ok – so back to my story and how I eventually found something that worked for me….

At one point, I realized that even though I’m really powerless in everything – it’s easier to just say “I’m powerless in lust”, and that would be really simple because that’s more revealed. Right? (I think someone posted the same train of thought a few pages back...)

But then, instead of signing up for Alcoholics Anonymous, Cocaine Anonymous, Clutterers Anonymous, Crystal Meth Anonymous, Co-Dependants Anonymous, Debtors Anonymous, Emotions Anonymous, Families Anonymous, Food Addicts Anonymous, Gamblers Anonymous, Heroin Anonymous, Marijuana Anonymous, Narcotics Anonymous, Neurotics Anonymous, Nicotine Anonymous, Overeaters Anonymous, Online Gamers Anonymous, Pills Anonymous, Reentry Anonymous, Smokers Anonymous, and Workaholics Anonymous too – and perhaps still not getting the point(!!), I decided instead – knowing that my recovery isn’t about what’s easy and not – that I would have to take the Torah route, hard or not, BECAUSE it’s 100% true!

My sobriety had to be about putting G-d #1! An addition, the truth seemed more attractive to me than anything else.

That included that I’d walk away with the attitude that I am incapable of all, and that G-d is capable of all!

Thank G-d I didn't have to go to all those meetings!! 

I took note of the many cancer survivors who were at one point in extremely severe condition and told by doctors that they only have a matter of weeks or even days left to live. Then one day the doctors look at the tests and find nothing! We all know those stories.

Hashem performs miracles, helping those who trust in Him.

That’s something I’ve learned - b"H!

YMG wrote on 02 Aug 2011 16:14:

I see your "no point" and I up you one.

YMG wrote on 02 Aug 2011 16:16:


I am so, so happy for you, thanks for sharing that.  I take it you don't need to go to doctors anymore either.

YMG wrote on 02 Aug 2011 16:16:
By the way, did you ever go to a meeting?

ur-a-jew wrote on 02 Aug 2011 16:44:


I've never attended a meeting, live - in person.

I've very actively participated in 12 Step phone conferences of all kinds though, and I was highly involved in the whole back and forth "feel, talk, and trust" - as they like to call it.

Before turning to Torah, I did mention that I'd gone through the Big Book.

You may glean that from my earlier posts...

I actually studied it verse by verse, dissected it, and wrote an analysis on it - which made me change my mind and decide it wasn't for me.

(My analysis on the text was actually posted here on GYE till the management decided it wasn't good for SA promotion, and had it deleted.)

I took some essential truths - like turn to G-d and He'll help you - and dropped the rest.

I still believe that they have some truths aside of that - but being a non-dogmatic type of person - I learned to take things with a grain of salt.

I have a lot to say about SA, but this thread isn't devoted to bashing them.

I realize that a lot of people here are using the 12 Steps, and I'm not going to tell them not to.

I'm only sharing my experience.

And here Elya, are some of the ideas I mention, as quoted in AA's Big Book:

"I simply had to believe in a Spirit of the Universe, who knew neither time nor limitation." (Big Book pg. 10)

"When we saw others solve their problems by a simple reliance upon the Spirit of the Universe, we had to stop doubting the power of God. Our ideas did not work. But the God idea did." (Big Book pg. 52)

"When we became alcoholics, crushed by a self-imposed crisis we could not postpone or evade, we had to fearlessly face the proposition that either God is everything or else He is nothing. God either is, or He isn't." (Big Book pg. 53)

This is #1 for a Torah yid.

...are you done yet?

No. I also wanted to say that I've been getting a lot of positive feedback in regard to the topic of this thread and I attribute a lot of that to posts like yours which spark good points.

Have a good evening, and thanks for popping in.

YMG wrote on 02 Aug 2011 16:16:


ur-a-jew wrote on 02 Aug 2011 16:44:

guardureyes wrote on 03 Aug 2011 13:16:


http://www.guardyoureyes.org/forum/index.php?topic=4190.msg113119#msg113119

So why did you compare it to "cancer survivors?"

By the way, read this PDF. I'm curious to hear your thoughts on it.

Page 242 quotes the Rambam while comparing the 12-Step "disease" view with the Torah approach.