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This is going to be the time I get to 90!
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Scientific studies show that it takes 90 days to break an addictive pattern in the mind. Start your own Log of your journey to 90 days! Post here to update us on your status and to give each other chizuk to stay strong!

TOPIC: This is going to be the time I get to 90! 35789 Views

Re: This is going to be the time I get to 90! 22 May 2020 04:05 #350190

  • Realestatemogul
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Thank you guys! So many great points,  and I will try and address some of them. 

@Ihavestrength

RE Filters: I was addressing the people who feel that to be clean means they have to be able to do it without a filter. I used to feel like I was messed up if I would need porn and I couldn't not look without a filter, even though I could sometimes go weeks without a problem eventually I fell. People think it is a lack of self control that you can't control yourself without a filter. I say real self control is saying I want a filter. I happen to disagree with you that filters aren't for everyone. While I wouldn't say someone is a bad person without it, I do belive every single person would benifit/need it. Not just because Rabbis said so, but becasue some things you just gotta put up a fence even if you don't think anything will come through. 

As far as the pleasure thing, I guess I was really saying that there is this "pleasure'' from acting out, and there isn't a feeling that replaces that from not acting out. There is something else that @willnevergiveup may have been referencing, and he reffered to it as wholesomeness. I always think of the feeling of doing good even without an inate "feeling" as contentment. When you are content, you don't have a positive feeling, but you feel nothing is lacking. Hence, you are wholesome (just decided, I like his defintion). Wholesome would really be shleimus, which is what we try to reach in this world. 

No hard feeling taken, and I reallly appreciate the response!

@starting 

I definitely agree with your outlook, although I wish you would give more room for people with other views. I am only where I am today, because I was able to understand that I am NOT horrible if I masterbate. That was the first step of my recovery. Realizing that Hashem still loves me if I do the wrong thing, and that I am NOT bad if I do the wrong thing, I just did a bad thing. I do see how you are diffrentiating between past and future, which makes sense, but I still think people need to know that even if they go do it now, they can still be good people. (They just have to work on themsleves still. )

@Singularity 

You are awesome! Can you please expound a bit on your wise words? 

@willnevergiveup

Right on! However, it is really hard to internalize and isn't something I feel naturally, otherwise this wouldn't be a struggle, no? 

@Guard1

Very well said. Would you agree that is a life's work and can't be accomplished merely overnight or through meditation/prayer? 

@שבע יפול צד'ק וקם

I am happy someone agreed and really got what I was saying. 

I will clarify though, that I don't feel bad about being clean I just don't feel good. Like eating pasta for ice cream. Hmmm...

@GYE

Good stuff guys! The more I clarify this stuff the better off I am!

Re: This is going to be the time I get to 90! 22 May 2020 07:24 #350200

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You said "Would you agree that is a life's work and can't be accomplished merely overnight or through meditation/prayer? "

Yes, I agree. However, believing that "it's a life work" is often a way to postpone and diminuish our responsability in the present.

To totally give up on lust is a life work, but we can still achieve some progress on this aspect every day, and experience the result !

Personnally, I really feel that through prayer / meditation, some fantasies that felt really strong, impossible to give up, are much less stronger. They still exist but I can feel that there is a new distance between me and the object of my desire.

Also about the wholesomeness you mentioned, I think it is of course part of the process. Because if you give up on lust but on the other side your life feels empty and has no taste, well you might go back to lusting, as Singularity said.

I think the best way to feel wholesome in our everyday / normal life is to see the divine parcel in everyone, everything and every act. To give a divine perspective to all the details of our life.

This also can be achieved I think through some form of "meditation", I don't like this word cause it feels buddhist, you can use the word "kavanah" instead, it's all about controlling our kavannah when we eat, pray, study, wash the dishes, go to the supermarket, look at the sky, etc. and to see the purpose of everything, to see the good in everyone and everything and to link it to the divine.

I also think that "wholesomeness" is another word for "simha", and as simha is a spiritual feeling, it can't be the result of material possessions and achievements. It's a choice that we have to do in our inner being, to feel wholesome in our soul even if we lack some things in our material life.

These are just personnal thoughts I wanted to share, not sure if everything is right or true for everyone ...
Last Edit: 22 May 2020 07:26 by Guard1.

Re: This is going to be the time I get to 90! 22 May 2020 11:51 #350201

  • wilnevergiveup
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@REM, I couldn't agree with you more.

We can't expect the feeling of being in control to replace the pleasure of acting out, they are two totally different things.

When we do reach the level where we can feel powerful and in control, it does feel good although it has nothing to do with the feeling of pleasure. 

The mistake that we make is thinking we will replace the pleasure of acting with the "pleasure" of abstaining. There is no pleasure, it's something much higher and more real that we have to really appreciate. 

I am not forcing anyone to agree with me on this last point but in my humble opinion the only way to feel wholesome (shleimus) is to have some sort of spirituality in your life, as Bill Wilson said "Without spirituality, we're dead".

Before you all kill me let me explain what spirituality means.

In the book Teshuvah Through Recovery (chapter 13), Rabbi Twerski defines spirituality as the features that we have that separate us from animals. Living a purposeful and goal directed life, the ability to resist temptations, to be charitable are some examples of purely human traits. Note that this has nothing to do with religion. 

When we learn to live our lives as human beings and to remove all the traits that we learned from animals, perhaps we will be able to feel whole.

I am nowhere close, but it helps to understand what I am aiming for.

Hatzlachah, sorry didn't mean to go on a rant...  
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(עשה רצונו כרצונך (אבות,ב:ד

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Re: This is going to be the time I get to 90! 25 May 2020 11:41 #350329

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REM, beautiful and intelligent post. Mazel tov on your accomplishment. May Hashem help you continue.

I found there is actually an empty feeling that crops up as we progress past certain milestones. Firstly, the loss of that high adrenalin/dopamine pumping experience - which we went from 0 mph to 100 mph in seconds - is simply not replaced. Exercise, while replacing it to some extent, takes time and effort - it does not have that immediate bang. For those of us who are married, real sex, although a very satisfying and incredible experience (a much better one than a computer can ever portray), also does not move at that speed. We also "lose out" on the ability to be hyper-focused on something. There is enjoyment in being completely, with every part of the body literally, living an out of body fantasy experience.  It is a lifelong job to attain that hyper-focused "searing onto the brain" experience in Torah or Tefillah, so for most of us, except at rare occasions, like Neila, we cant find a kosher replacement for that "fantasy" (for lack of a better word) experience.

Regarding urges, our Chazal in all generations have made it clear we will have them for life. Do not feel bad about urges. It is in our natural makeup.  There are many halachos specifically targeting these urges, be it yichud, or tznius in dress. I agree that one should do his best to avoid fantasizing because besides being assur, it is just a tease. At some point you will have to stop or else....However, don't beat yourself up about urges! Many of us equated urges with actions and deduced incorrectly "If I am any way a lowlife for still having urges after working so hard at this, I may as well just act out..." Without realizing this fact that urges are here to stay, it is easy on day 91, or 366 to be so frustrated - "Now what?! When will this ever end?!" - that it will create problems.

Hatzlocha buddy. Keep inspiring.
Feel free to contact me at michelgelner@gmail.com

My threads: Lessons Learned: guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/335248-Lessons-Learned

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Re: This is going to be the time I get to 90! 26 May 2020 00:00 #350370

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Hashem Help Me wrote on 25 May 2020 11:41:
REM, beautiful and intelligent post. Mazel tov on your accomplishment. May Hashem help you continue.

I found there is actually an empty feeling that crops up as we progress past certain milestones. Firstly, the loss of that high adrenalin/dopamine pumping experience - which we went from 0 mph to 100 mph in seconds - is simply not replaced. Exercise, while replacing it to some extent, takes time and effort - it does not have that immediate bang. For those of us who are married, real sex, although a very satisfying and incredible experience (a much better one than a computer can ever portray), also does not move at that speed. We also "lose out" on the ability to be hyper-focused on something. There is enjoyment in being completely, with every part of the body literally, living an out of body fantasy experience.  It is a lifelong job to attain that hyper-focused "searing onto the brain" experience in Torah or Tefillah, so for most of us, except at rare occasions, like Neila, we cant find a kosher replacement for that "fantasy" (for lack of a better word) experience.

Regarding urges, our Chazal in all generations have made it clear we will have them for life. Do not feel bad about urges. It is in our natural makeup.  There are many halachos specifically targeting these urges, be it yichud, or tznius in dress. I agree that one should do his best to avoid fantasizing because besides being assur, it is just a tease. At some point you will have to stop or else....However, don't beat yourself up about urges! Many of us equated urges with actions and deduced incorrectly "If I am any way a lowlife for still having urges after working so hard at this, I may as well just act out..." Without realizing this fact that urges are here to stay, it is easy on day 91, or 366 to be so frustrated - "Now what?! When will this ever end?!" - that it will create problems.

Hatzlocha buddy. Keep inspiring.

That first point is very insightful. Thanks
My Thread:The Road To Being Honest With Myself (and others:)

I'm not a slow learner, I'm just quick to forget" - Eli Nash

A bit of honesty and less over confidence might help me - Imperfection

Re: This is going to be the time I get to 90! 27 May 2020 03:39 #350457

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Thank you! 

That is some really deep stuff! I am going to have to chew that over a bit, but it definitely makes a lot of sense. 

Re: This is going to be the time I get to 90! 27 May 2020 11:30 #350466

Realestatemogul,

Kudos on your 9th day! You absolutely can get to 90!
One day at a time and challenges are really just opportunities of growth in disguise

Keep us updated holy brother! 

Hatzlacha!

Re: This is going to be the time I get to 90! 04 Jun 2020 03:15 #350739

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BH on day 182!

Since we have been focusing on 30 day increments, next goal (from 180) is 210...

Re: This is going to be the time I get to 90! 04 Jun 2020 04:00 #350741

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183!!!

How's the clarity of thought? Must feel so good <3
"Vegeta, what does the scouter say about his sobriety level?"
"... It's over NINE-ZEROOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!"

One day... At A Time :-D


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Re: This is going to be the time I get to 90! 05 Jun 2020 03:56 #350812

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B''h decent, but only as clear as it could be down on planet earth...

Re: This is going to be the time I get to 90! 02 Jul 2020 00:05 #352106

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210. Shooting for 240 now.

Just keep trucking, just keep trucking, just keep trucking...

I am always looking for new ideas to help me along, so if anyone has anything feel free to drop a line.

Re: This is going to be the time I get to 90! 02 Jul 2020 00:36 #352107

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Check out The Battle of the Generation (guardyoureyes.com/ebooks/item/the-battle-of-the-generation). It's a very uplifting book that covers many aspects of the battle, all in a wise, sensitive, and positive way. Try reading two pages a day! It works for lots of people.
In the place where ba’alei teshuva stand, even pure tzaddikim who never sinned cannot stand. (Rabbi Avohu, Brachos 34b)

Great free resources:
My favorite book for breaking free: The Battle of the Generation https://guardyoureyes.com/ebooks/item/the-battle-of-the-generation. Change your attitude and change your life!

Rabbi Shafier's incredible lectures on breaking free: The Fight. Download here: https://theshmuz.com/series/the-fight/

Re: This is going to be the time I get to 90! 02 Jul 2020 22:54 #352133

Realestatemogul wrote on 02 Jul 2020 00:05:
210. Shooting for 240 now.



Reaching 210 is so awesome!! That's 7 months!! What a lion, especially because you have no outlet!!
Feel free to pm me, currently a lucky choson which merited to have discovered gye 1.5 years ago which BH totally changed my life from one extreme to the other!

הנותן עיניו במה שאינו שלו, מה שמבקש לא נותנים לו, ומה שבידו נוטלים ממנה

(סוטה ט, עמוד א)


ולכן אל יפול לב אדם
וכו' גם אם יהיה כן כל ימיו במלחמה זו כי אולי לכך נברא וזאת עבודתו לאכפיא לס"א תמיד 
(תניא פ"כז)

Re: This is going to be the time I get to 90! 03 Jul 2020 13:05 #352176

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Mazal Tov REM!! Please keep inspiring us!!
אם יהיו חטאיכם כשנים, כשלג ילבינו

Re: This is going to be the time I get to 90! 21 Jul 2020 03:47 #352799

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229. This is tough stuff - but BH we are still staying strong. 

I want to remind myself for a second why I spend so much effort on this whole thing...

1) We are here for just a short while and after that we go somewhere else....
2) I want my time in the next world to be super special
3) Any unallowable "pleasure" I get in this world will take away from my place in the next world. 
4) Lust takes away my ability to get closer to Hashem
5) Addiction is destructive 
6) Lust inhibits my ability to have  healthy relationships with others

Thats enough for now. I think I am convinced! 

Thanks for listening 
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