Read once, then minimize to save screen space.

Forum Overview

Post on the forum to get support, tell your story and reach out for help when feeling weak!

You will never be alone in this struggle again.

The GYE forum is anonymous platform of group support, and a life-line of chizuk for hundreds of people in exactly your situation. 

To use the forum you need to first become a member of the site, sign up here.

After signing up to the site, go to the forum, enter one of our boards and press "New Topic" to begin posting! 

Welcome, Guest
A recent scientific study shows that it takes 90 days to break an addictive pattern in the mind. Start your own Log of your journey to 90 days! Post here to update us on your status and to give each other chizuk to stay strong! See www.guardyoureyes.com/tools/90-day-chart.

TOPIC: MZL on the 90-day highway 34478 Views

Re: MZL on the 90-day highway 24 Oct 2018 10:24 #336639

  • Dov
  • OFFLINE
  • Administrator
  • Baby-steps; Easy does it.
  • Posts: 1906
  • Karma: 321
I'm sorry to see that you still feel that way. Through your assumptions, you have again missed my point. Nu. Maybe the main cultural difference are that I'm ok questioning my own understandings and assumptions while you sometimes make judgememts and remain rigid. I didn't try to debate you or convince you of anything - I tried to be helpful and open you up to possibilities. You fought and defended and grew more accusative, trying to 'define' me by my (imagined) motives into a box. Maybe putting others into an imaginary box where they can't reach you is how you operate, maybe not. That's just what it looks like to me. I think that mental isolation is more powerful than physical isolation. And we all have rationalizations to isolate, you're no different except maybe in degrees. I hope that one day you'll start to lower your defenses and enjoy learning more new things, when you're ready. I think that you will find many people aren't quite what you thought they were. And I like when that happens to me...maybe you will, too. And in the process, you will learn a lot (mostly good) about yourself that you are totally unaware of, as yet.
Hatzlocha!
Admin put these lines here cuz he likes 'em:
"The heart needs to be broken when will-power is not enough"
"Get off the 18-Wheeler and onto a tricycle!"
"The heck with me, what can I do for you?"
"I do not particularly care exactly which "lav" suicide is. I'm not interested in it for other reasons!"

Re: MZL on the 90-day highway 24 Oct 2018 10:38 #336640

  • Dov
  • OFFLINE
  • Administrator
  • Baby-steps; Easy does it.
  • Posts: 1906
  • Karma: 321
mzl wrote on 24 Oct 2018 10:19:
I think I should address something that bothers Dov a lot, namely that I make observations about how people think, which he would describe as "attacking their personalities."

This is an area where, as I already stated, we have cultural differences. Where I'm coming from is that improvement comes from accurately understanding how my brain thinks. Therefore for me progress is all about personality. Therefore in order to talk to someone about my or their problems, most of the words said have to be about how I and they think. But I also know that how the brain thinks can change if the right tool is available.

This is horrible for someone who thinks that how someone thinks can never be controlled, and that it can probably never even be known. And even in medicine and other sciences there are lots of things that we know happen but we don't know why they happen. Thinking about internal mechanisms can even seen to be dangerous in so far as it prevents you from going down a more productive path. I think this is why Dov refers to analysis as "convolution."

I think it's pretty clear that once you give up on understanding though, especially where you find a set of behaviors that are effective, that is all you will ever know about that topic. That means that helping others will be a matter of selection rather than analysis: you keep looking for the people that mesh with your way of looking at the world, and skip over the rest.

Whereas my approach is to ask a lot of questions because I think each person needs to be understood first, and fixed later - maybe. But in my experience when analysis is done correctly and good tools are available it can do very well.

I would characterize this as a major cultural difference.

Funny that I didn't see your post here yet till I had already written and sent mine just above. But no debate here. All I'm doing is bringing up possibilities. I feel that the language you are using is one of putting people in boxes and that figuring people out is easy to use as a tool for isolation. Perhaps you're not doing that at all! But your track record in gaining, cultivating and keeping useful relationships is relevant...and time will tell. 
Have a good day!
Admin put these lines here cuz he likes 'em:
"The heart needs to be broken when will-power is not enough"
"Get off the 18-Wheeler and onto a tricycle!"
"The heck with me, what can I do for you?"
"I do not particularly care exactly which "lav" suicide is. I'm not interested in it for other reasons!"

Re: MZL on the 90-day highway 24 Oct 2018 16:31 #336645

  • mzl
  • Current streak: 28 days
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 996
Dov wrote on 21 Oct 2018 21:26:
And if he gets bored, then what?

I think you helped me by asking me this question. Just letting you know.

Re: MZL on the 90-day highway 24 Oct 2018 17:24 #336647

  • mzl
  • Current streak: 28 days
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 996
Years ago I went to some SA meetings, but eventually stopped because I realized that my main motivation for going was my bipolar disorder, I was looking to do something special so I could get a high. Mzl was a long-standing problem, but my life was not unmanageable. And I analyzed the program to understand the true reasons why it works. And I didn't trust people to be my sponsor. And I had difficulty calling people. Honestly I think for me it was wasted.

Later on I learned a lot on how the brain works and added some original touches of my own, so I never went back.

I enjoyed the meetings though. Also driving to the meetings was great.
Last Edit: 24 Oct 2018 17:25 by mzl.

Re: MZL on the 90-day highway 25 Oct 2018 03:21 #336659

mzl wrote on 24 Oct 2018 17:24:
Years ago I went to some SA meetings, but eventually stopped because I realized that my main motivation for going was my bipolar disorder, I was looking to do something special so I could get a high. Mzl was a long-standing problem, but my life was not unmanageable. And I analyzed the program to understand the true reasons why it works. And I didn't trust people to be my sponsor. And I had difficulty calling people. Honestly I think for me it was wasted.

Later on I learned a lot on how the brain works and added some original touches of my own, so I never went back.

I enjoyed the meetings though. Also driving to the meetings was great.

You are probably the person most confident in their thinking that I have “met” to date lol. 

Re: MZL on the 90-day highway 21 Feb 2019 16:52 #339138

  • Tzvi5
  • Current streak: 917 days
  • OFFLINE
  • Junior Boarder
  • Posts: 28
  • Karma: 3
mzl wrote on 24 Oct 2018 17:24:
Years ago I went to some SA meetings, but eventually stopped because I realized that my main motivation for going was my bipolar disorder, I was looking to do something special so I could get a high. Mzl was a long-standing problem, but my life was not unmanageable. And I analyzed the program to understand the true reasons why it works. And I didn't trust people to be my sponsor. And I had difficulty calling people. Honestly I think for me it was wasted.

Later on I learned a lot on how the brain works and added some original touches of my own, so I never went back.

I enjoyed the meetings though. Also driving to the meetings was great.

Are you at ease or edgy in general?
Knas money can go to paypal.me/196leadersoftomorrow?locale.x=en_US
Help Jewish public school students receive Jewish education once a week.
may that be a zchus you'll decide to change your life around.
Email aronieberger@gmail.com to find out how an ex sa member found serenity through Torah Study.

link to my story guardyoureyes.com/forum/19-Introduce-Yourself/339218-My-journey-to-sanity
Time to create page: 0.45 seconds